Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin): Effect on Lab Tests

PARTICIPATION NEEDED!

Of those EM members that have taken nandrolone or are currently taking nandrolone alongside their TRT, we are conducting a small ExcelMale study to help determine the effect that nandrolone has on Total Testosterone, E2, Prolactin, SHBG, free T, and DHT while taking TRT.

Here is what is needed:

Simply post the following information...

(1) Pretest Labs (Labs taken before adding nandrolone to TRT):
TT
Free T
SHBG
E2
Prolactin
DHT
Blood Assay Methodology
RX Protocol

(2) Posttest Labs (Labs taken during nandrolone treatment):
TT
Free T
SHBG
E2
Prolactin
DHT
Blood Assay Methodology
RX Protocol

Let's move our knowledge forward!

@Gman86 @Vince @Nelson Vergel @Jason Sypolt @madman @madhacker @Cataceous

Nandrolone's Effects in Conjunction with Testosterone Replacement Therapy
Executive Summary

This forum thread synthesizes an analysis of the effects of nandrolone when used with Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT). The core findings indicate that nandrolone produces a distinct and predictable set of changes to blood work, physiological state, and quality of life.

Key takeaways include a significant alteration of hormonal panels, characterized by an increase in Free Testosterone and a decrease in Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin (SHBG). Critically, the measurement of Total Testosterone is only accurate via a Liquid Chromatography/Mass Spectrometry (LC/MS) assay, as older immunoassay methods will falsely register nandrolone as testosterone. The substance also increases hematocrit while lowering HDL ("good") cholesterol.
Physiologically, nandrolone is noted for a unique benefit: the reduction of joint pain. It also improves muscle pump and strength. Potential adverse effects include increased blood pressure and water retention in some individuals. Contrary to widespread belief, the source asserts that nandrolone has no effect on prolactin levels. It is also neutral regarding erectile dysfunction (ED) and does not cause drug-induced changes to liver enzymes.
Impact on Blood Work and Key Biomarkers
When used with TRT, nandrolone, classified as a 17-alpha methylated anabolic, has several measurable effects on blood work. Accurate interpretation of these results, particularly for testosterone, is contingent on using the correct laboratory assay.

Biomarker	Effect	Notes
Free Testosterone	Increases	-
Total Testosterone	No Change	This is only true when measured using an LC/MS assay.
SHBG	Decreases	Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin is lowered.
DHT	May or May Not Increase	The effect on Dihydrotestosterone is variable.
HDL Cholesterol	Decreases	High-Density Lipoprotein, or "good" cholesterol, is lowered.
Hematocrit	Increases	-
Prolactin	Stays the Same	The source material challenges common beliefs, stating this level is unaffected.
Liver Enzymes	No Drug-Induced Change	While the drug itself does not alter liver enzymes, resistance exercise can.

Physiological and Quality of Life Effects
The administration of nandrolone alongside TRT induces several physical and experiential changes. These range from therapeutic benefits to potential side effects.
Beneficial Effects
• Reduced Joint Pain: This is highlighted as a unique effect of nandrolone.
• Improved Muscle Pump: An enhancement in the feeling of muscle fullness during exercise is reported.
• Increased Strength: Users experience an improvement in physical strength.
Potential Adverse Effects
• Increased Blood Pressure: Blood pressure may go up in some men.
• Increased Water Retention: The body may retain more water, which can worsen existing issues.
• Increased Appetite: An increase in appetite may occur.
Neutral Effects
• Erectile Dysfunction (ED): The source states there is no effect on ED.
Crucial Considerations for Laboratory Testing
The method used for testing testosterone levels is of paramount importance when nandrolone is present.
• Inaccurate Method (Immunoassay): Older immunoassay tests (e.g., ECLIA) will incorrectly detect nandrolone as testosterone, leading to a falsely elevated Total Testosterone reading.
• Accurate Method (LC/MS): A Liquid Chromatography/Mass Spectrometry (LC/MS) assay will not cross-react with nandrolone, providing an accurate Total Testosterone measurement. The specific test mentioned is the 'testosterone-free-dialysis-and-total-ls-ms-ms'.
Associated Resources and Experts
The source material references the following resources for testing and information:
• Testing Provider: www.discountedlabs.com is cited as a source for the appropriate LC/MS testosterone test.
• Expert and Forum: Nelson Vergel, co-author of "Built to Survive: A Comprehensive Guide...", is mentioned in the context of reviewing bodybuilder blood work panels on the Excel Male Health Forum. These panels are noted to be available through DiscountedLabs.com and are designed to help minimize side effects and maximize the benefits of anabolics and testosterone.

 

@Luke76 before making any changes, would you be open to getting ur E2 done now that u’ve been on 10mg of oxandrolone? I’d be very curious to see how much of a lowering effect the oxandrolone does in fact have on e2. Your E2 was 42 last time u checked, correct? Was that on 300mg of deca, or on 250mg?

 

Blood levels of calcium do not predict cardiovascular disease.

Review this information:

Should you consider a coronary artery calcium scan? - Harvard Health

A coronary artery calcium scan uses a special x-ray machine that can reveal specks of calcium in the walls of the heart’s arteries, an early sign of cardiovascular disease. These tests aren&r...

www.health.harvard.edu

Fact check: Predicting heart attack risk

Sydney cardiologist Dr Ross Walker says that common health checks for blood pressure and cholesterol were not the best predictors of heart attacks. He says that a scan for coronary calcium is the best indicator. RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

www.abc.net.au

 

@Luke76 before making any changes, would you be open to getting ur E2 done now that u’ve been on 10mg of oxandrolone? I’d be very curious to see how much of a lowering effect the oxandrolone does in fact have on e2. Your E2 was 42 last time u checked, correct? Was that on 300mg of deca, or on 250mg?

40.2
on 250mg Deca

Sure I look for some inexpensive lab test and test again.

 

40.2
on 250mg Deca

Sure I look for some inexpensive lab test and test again.

Sounds good. Very curious to see where your E2 currently sits. I just had mine done last week using discountedlabs.com. It’s Nelson’s site. Here’s the link. Got it done at quest. Had the results back in 2-3 days. Not sure if this coupon code is still valid, but u can try code “10percentoff” for 10% off. @Nelson Vergel should be able to tell us if that’s still valid. If not, maybe he has another discount code for u to use.

ESTRADIOL Ultra Sensitive (LC/MS) Blood Test | Discounted Labs

The most accurate and sensitive estradiol blood test for men based on liquid chromatography, mass spectrometry ( LC/MS )

www.discountedlabs.com

 

Sounds good. Very curious to see where your E2 currently sits. I just had mine done last week using discountedlabs.com. It’s Nelson’s site. Here’s the link. Got it done at quest. Had the results back in 2-3 days. Not sure if this coupon code is still valid, but u can try code “10percentoff” for 10% off. @Nelson Vergel should be able to tell us if that’s still valid. If not, maybe he has another discount code for u to use.

ESTRADIOL Ultra Sensitive (LC/MS) Blood Test | Discounted Labs

The most accurate and sensitive estradiol blood test for men based on liquid chromatography, mass spectrometry ( LC/MS )

www.discountedlabs.com

Thanks. Code worked. Got the E2 test.
There is still the LC/MS Testosterone test sitting in my box.

I’ll do both.The T just for fun, to see how 50mg and 500iu HCG performs.

 

Would


I do like to cover my bases though. Any suggestions, supplements, to elevate HDL?
Thanks

Study demonstrating the positive effects on Toremifene on cholesterol profiles.

https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(19)30141-9/abstract

 

Study demonstrating the positive effects on Toremifene on cholesterol profiles.

https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(19)30141-9/abstract

I don't think it's meant for men on testosterone, isn't meant for men who has prostate cancer?

 

I don't think it's meant for men on testosterone, isn't meant for men who has prostate cancer?

It has been used with high success rates in men who are undergoing androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer by both increasing bone mineral density and improving cholesterol profiles.

However, the drug is also used as an adjunct in TRT patients as a means of mitigating gynecomastia (Torem is an analog of Tamoxifen). In the process, anecdotally i have heard reports from Dr. Larry Lipshultz at BCM that this drug improves TRT patient's cholesterol profiles and improves bone mineral density. He offered it to me 2 years ago; I have yet to try it but am interested in it for its positive effects on the skeletal system.

 

It has been used with high success rates in men who are undergoing androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer by both increasing bone mineral density and improving cholesterol profiles.

However, the drug is also used as an adjunct in TRT patients as a means of mitigating gynecomastia (Torem is an analog of Tamoxifen). In the process, anecdotally i have heard reports from Dr. Larry Lipshultz at BCM that this drug improves TRT patient's cholesterol profiles and improves bone mineral density. He offered it to me 2 years ago; I have yet to try it but am interested in it for its positive effects on the skeletal system.

I see we do have a few threads on it.

Toremifene citrate improves HDL in men on testosterone therapy - Excel Male Health Forum

The Journal of Urology Volume 199, Issue 4, Supplement, April 2018, Page e1171 Sexual Function/Dysfunction: Medical, Hormonal & Non-surgical Therapy II MP85-06 TOREMIFENE CITRATE IMPROVES HIGH-DENSITY LIPOPROTEIN LEVELS IN MEN ON TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY INTRODUCTION AND...

www.excelmale.com

Clomid, Nolvadex or Toremifene on TRT to boost FSH levels in combination with hCG for fertility? - Excel Male Health Forum

It seems to be a debatable topic whether or not there are any benefits to using Clomid or other serms on TRT. We typically use hCG to retain fertility (or restore). The problem is that hCG does nothing for FSH. Can we use Clomid, Nolvadex or Toremifene to solve this issue? I know hMG can take...

www.excelmale.com

 

I see we do have a few threads on it.

Toremifene citrate improves HDL in men on testosterone therapy - Excel Male Health Forum

The Journal of Urology Volume 199, Issue 4, Supplement, April 2018, Page e1171 Sexual Function/Dysfunction: Medical, Hormonal & Non-surgical Therapy II MP85-06 TOREMIFENE CITRATE IMPROVES HIGH-DENSITY LIPOPROTEIN LEVELS IN MEN ON TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY INTRODUCTION AND...

www.excelmale.com

Clomid, Nolvadex or Toremifene on TRT to boost FSH levels in combination with hCG for fertility? - Excel Male Health Forum

It seems to be a debatable topic whether or not there are any benefits to using Clomid or other serms on TRT. We typically use hCG to retain fertility (or restore). The problem is that hCG does nothing for FSH. Can we use Clomid, Nolvadex or Toremifene to solve this issue? I know hMG can take...

www.excelmale.com

I’m not sure if ok to ask, but if so, any good source to purchase the Toremifene so I can test it?

 

I’m not sure if ok to ask, but if so, any good source to purchase the Toremifene so I can test it?

Lol can’t do that here.

My answer would be Empower Pharmacy lol

 

Yeah, I wasn’t sure. But expected.

 

I’m positive Oxandrolone is over the top here: “pure” androgen, drops SHBG really low (which frees up a lot of DHT), is infamous for smashing HDL and perhaps kidney function which explains your potassium being slightly off.

I’d drop it

 

Yeah, I wasn’t sure. But expected.

Hello Luke 76 !! Please I’d like your opinion if you don’t mind ...
It’s was really very interesting,your post on Nandrolone. It has just opened a new gate for me.
I’ve been on TRT over the last 10 years. Great results with Testosterone, so far.
After a Bike accident 30 days ago, I’m now on a wheelchair ( temporarily, maybe 60 days). I’m trying to fix four fractures in the pelvis ( Without surgery). I’m in my 50’s btw ...
I was wondering if I add Nandrolone for a couple of months ... Maybe could help me with the fractures and the joints pain as well ...
Could you pls give me a helping hand with any thoughts on this issue ??
Many tks for your attention !!
Rgs from Brazil !!
Alexandre .

 

I do like to cover my bases though. Any suggestions, supplements, to elevate HDL?
Thanks

Thanks for the observation. Lipids are issue for everyone on TRT/HRT. Nothing new.
I don’t believe in overhyped importance of Cholesterol bad/good etc. so I’m all good.
I’ll keep it the way it is.

So you're sure the benefits of 10 mg/day of oxandrolone outweighs the risk?

Here's an experiment....remove the oxandrolone and run a cheap lipid panel after 60 days off. Report back your HDL/LDL/trigs, etc.

It's not a matter of what you should add to your protocol to improve HDL (if that's your desire), it's what you can remove.

 

So you're sure the benefits of 10 mg/day of oxandrolone outweighs the risk?

Here's an experiment....remove the oxandrolone and run a cheap lipid panel after 60 days off. Report back your HDL/LDL/trigs, etc.

It's not a matter of what you should add to your protocol to improve HDL (if that's your desire), it's what you can remove.

Guys. Don’t say that low HDL does not matter. Yes, HDL over 40 did not make a difference in this meta analysis. But low HDL increased mortality risk. Oxandrolone is well known for decreasing HDL down to the teens depending on the dose. Testosterone can also decrease HDL also depending on the dose. That combined with increased hematocrit and high blood pressure is not good.

Raising 'good' cholesterol doesn't protect against heart disease after all, study finds

HDL, or good cholesterol, has been thought to protect against heart attack and stroke. But a big new study published Monday found little evidence it does.

www.statnews.com

 

Hello Luke 76 !! Please I’d like your opinion if you don’t mind ...
It’s was really very interesting,your post on Nandrolone. It has just opened a new gate for me.
I’ve been on TRT over the last 10 years. Great results with Testosterone, so far.
After a Bike accident 30 days ago, I’m now on a wheelchair ( temporarily, maybe 60 days). I’m trying to fix four fractures in the pelvis ( Without surgery). I’m in my 50’s btw ...
I was wondering if I add Nandrolone for a couple of months ... Maybe could help me with the fractures and the joints pain as well ...
Could you pls give me a helping hand with any thoughts on this issue ??
Many tks for your attention !!
Rgs from Brazil !!
Alexandre .

Here is a good article Nonsurgical Treatment for Nonhealing Fractures

 

This is from an IG post by Victor Black. Personally I don't worry about a 10 - 15% drop in HDL from either T or ND, but a 50%+ drop from an oral C-17, it matters over time. A 12 week course of 10 mg of OX once every 12 - 24 weeks, probably not clinically meaningful to someone with low LDL and no family history. Run it year round, that's a different story. IMO, if you want to lower E2, cut out some T and replace with either DHT or drostanolone (if you are in a country where it can be obtained legally).

 

My HDL went from around 58-61 on an HRT protocol without Oxandrolone, to 42 when I was taking 15mg of Oxandrolone per day. I ran Oxandrolone at 15mg/ day for 3 months prior to having labs done

 

Yes, sorry just saw this. Yearly labs. Aside from Hb/HCT, otherwise fine.