Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin): Effect on Lab Tests

[Gman86]

Oxandrolone was approved in the mid 90's as Oxandrin (oxandrolone) and indicated as adjunctive therapy to promote weight gain after weight loss following extensive surgery, chronic infections, or severe trauma, and in some patients who without definite pathophysiologic reasons fail to gain or to maintain normal weight, to offset the protein catabolism associated with prolonged administration of corticosteroids, and for the relief of the bone pain frequently accompanying osteoporosis.

We used 20 mg per day (men). 5-10 mg per day (women). We used it along with 100-200 mg per week of testosterone cypionate or enanthate.

It decreases HDL even more so than nandrolone, so I never used it for over a month. It can also decrease estradiol and cause joint aches.

Nandrolone typical dose was 200 mg every two weeks plus 200mg of T cypionate or enanthate every two weeks. Back then we did not know that lower and more frequent doses would be better. We also did not know much about hCG.

I usually don't talk much about those days, as you guys know.

Here are a few Google Scholar references of my work back then.

Nelson Vergel

Author- Founder, PoWerUSA.org, DiscountedLabs.com and ExcelMale.com - Cited by 92 - Endocrinology - HRT - Exercise Science - Nutrition Science - HIV research

scholar.google.com

Thanks for all that info. Appreciate it.

 

[Luke76]

One year now on this weekly protocol:

250mg Deca
50mg Testosterone Cyp
10mg Oxandrolone (daily)
500iu HCG

Recent lab results attached

 

[Vince]

One year now on this weekly protocol:

250mg Deca
50mg Testosterone Cyp
10mg Oxandrolone (daily)
500iu HCG

Recent lab results attached

Your lipid panel looks terrible. Are you going to continue your protocol, or are you going to make changes?

 

[DS3]

One year now on this weekly protocol:

250mg Deca
50mg Testosterone Cyp
10mg Oxandrolone (daily)
500iu HCG

Recent lab results attached

@Luke76 TT is unrealiable with the Roche ECLIA methodology while using Deca. It would have to be LC/MS for the TT to be accurate.

Regardless, thank you for posting this.

What is your rationale for your current protocol?

 

[Luke76]

Your lipid panel looks terrible. Are you going to continue your protocol, or are you going to make changes?

Thanks for the observation. Lipids are issue for everyone on TRT/HRT. Nothing new.
I don’t believe in overhyped importance of Cholesterol bad/good etc. so I’m all good.
I’ll keep it the way it is.

 

[Luke76]

@Luke76 TT is unrealiable with the Roche ECLIA methodology while using Deca. It would have to be LC/MS for the TT to be accurate.

Regardless, thank you for posting this.

What is your rationale for your current protocol?

Thank you, Im aware of ECLIA vs. LC/MS.
But since I really don’t care what my T levels are, I didn’t mind it’s ECLIA. Plus it was included in the test package.

I switched to DECA based HRT when I tested on my own few Deca ONLY cycles.
When I realized how great this hormone is, with no sides or complications Testosterone brings to the table already at measly 200mg, I was sold.
I ran up to 1000mg Deca solo weekly. Nothing but mass and perfection. No sides, nada. All lies and myths.

So I consulted few clinics and endo professionals and they all agreed it’s unorthodox approach these days when everyone is crazy with T and pushing Testosterone.
Anyway I got prescribed the protocol above and I’m super happy.

I repeat, no sides whatsoever, and I do know others with my approach.
More mass, calm, well put together guy, no aggression, no acne, high libido, confident.
Deca changed my body and mind for better.
That’s all.

I do run tests frequently, I do check and scan my heart annually. So far so good.

 

[DS3]

Thank you, Im aware of ECLIA vs. LC/MS.
But since I really don’t care what my T levels are, I didn’t mind it’s ECLIA. Plus it was included in the test package.

I switched to DECA based HRT when I tested on my own few Deca ONLY cycles.
When I realized how great this hormone is, with no sides or complications Testosterone brings to the table already at measly 200mg, I was sold.
I ran up to 1000mg Deca solo weekly. Nothing but mass and perfection. No sides, nada. All lies and myths.

So I consulted few clinics and endo professionals and they all agreed it’s unorthodox approach these days when everyone is crazy with T and pushing Testosterone.
Anyway I got prescribed the protocol above and I’m super happy.

I repeat, no sides whatsoever, and I do know others with my approach.
More mass, calm, well put together guy, no aggression, no acne, high libido, confident.
Deca changed my body and mind for better.
That’s all.

I do run tests frequently, I do check and scan my heart annually. So far so good.

Awesome. Thanks for the report.

 

[Luke76]

Would

Your lipid panel looks terrible. Are you going to continue your protocol, or are you going to make changes?

I do like to cover my bases though. Any suggestions, supplements, to elevate HDL?
Thanks

 

[DS3]

Would


I do like to cover my bases though. Any suggestions, supplements, to elevate HDL?
Thanks

DHA and Omega 3 & 6 (pretty much the canned answer you'll get from everyone). I take these supplements daily but don't see any lift in HDL/.

However, SERMs like Toremifene show great promise in positively affecting cholesterol profiles.

 

[Luke76]

DHA and Omega 3 & 6 (pretty much the canned answer you'll get from everyone). I take these supplements daily but don't see any lift in HDL/.

However, SERMs like Toremifene show great promise in positively affecting cholesterol profiles.

Ok, thank you.
I’ll look up the Toremifene.

I’m in Biohacking group, there are some big brains, they are big on peptides. I’ll ask what would they use for cholesterol.

 

[Vince]

Would


I do like to cover my bases though. Any suggestions, supplements, to elevate HDL?
Thanks

How to Increase Good Cholesterol (HDL) in Men on TRT

Higher doses of testosterone can cause decreases in good cholesterol (high density lipoprotein- HDL). There are several ways that HDL can be increased. Lee Myers, the founder of PeakTestosterone.com, has written a very good summary on the subject...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Luke76]

Thanks. Good read. I can implement few things and re-test.
The most enticing was the correlation between E2 levels and HDL levels.

 

[Gman86]

Thanks. Good read. I can implement few things and re-test.
The most enticing was the correlation between E2 levels and HDL levels.

Are you thinking that your E2 is too low, and that raising might improve your lipids?

 

[Luke76]

Yes exactly. Do you feel this would be worth test this theory?

I feel great on 40, but if you take the ratio of total Androgens and total Estrogens, it might not be the best and could use some tweaking.

 

[Gman86]

Yes exactly. Do you feel this would be worth test this theory?

I feel great on 40, but if you take the ratio of total Androgens and total Estrogens, it might not be the best and could use some tweaking.

I didn’t read the article, so not really sure. This is actually Garry, I speak with u almost daily via fb messenger lol. So I know ur situation very well. With your extremely low SHBG, I would assume with a total E2 of 40, your free E2 is well over the top of the range. I think the only way to find out if it improves your lipids, is to raise your E2 and see. The question is, how should u go about raising your E2? Should u increase it via estradiol cream? Because if u increase via test and/ or HCG, your androgens will also increase. Which wouldn’t really wouldn’t change the androgen to estrogen ratio, if that’s what matters most, in regards to lipids. Again, I didn’t read the article, so not sure how impotent the ratio is.

 

[Luke76]

I didn’t read the article, so not really sure. This is actually Garry, I speak with u almost daily via fb messenger lol. So I know ur situation very well. With your extremely low SHBG, I would assume with a total E2 of 40, your free E2 is well over the top of the range. I think the only way to find out if it improves your lipids, is to raise your E2 and see. The question is, how should u go about raising your E2? Should u increase it via estradiol cream? Because if u increase via test and/ or HCG, your androgens will also increase. Which wouldn’t really wouldn’t change the androgen to estrogen ratio, if that’s what matters most, in regards to lipids. Again, I didn’t read the article, so not sure how impotent the ratio is.

Hey good to “see” you here too.

Again, no stressing about lipids much, but if I could improve this a bit, I wouldn’t mind.

I’ll look into Estradiol cream.

 

[Gman86]

Hey good to “see” you here too.

Again, no stressing about lipids much, but if I could improve this a bit, I wouldn’t mind.

I’ll look into Estradiol cream.

Ya I don’t stress lipids either. I’ll link a video below that talks about our regular lipid tests being a flawed way to test cholesterol status. I only make sure it’s in range for the most part so Defy won’t freak out. But I personally wouldn’t freak out unless my lipid panel came back extremely different than my baseline levels. I’ve had my lipids tested a ton of times. Levels always come back around the same. So have a really good idea of what my baseline levels are.

So do u think E2 cream would be the only way to improve lipids, if that article is correct? Or do u think u may be able to improve lipids by increasing E2 via upping ur test/ HCG doses?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

@Luke76
Although calcium score is not all the way accurate, I would at least get one done. Believe me, you will eventually pay the price in the long term with your current lipid profile. But what is long term? That is the real question.

Your estradiol will not increase while you are using oxandrolone even at 10 mg per day. Nandrolone decreases HDL and so does oxandrolone. There is nothing you can take to bring it up above 40. I have been around for long enough to know.

 

[Luke76]

Ya I don’t stress lipids either. I’ll link a video below that talks about our regular lipid tests being a flawed way to test cholesterol status. I only make sure it’s in range for the most part so Defy won’t freak out. But I personally wouldn’t freak out unless my lipid panel came back extremely different than my baseline levels. I’ve had my lipids tested a ton of times. Levels always come back around the same. So have a really good idea of what my baseline levels are.

So do u think E2 cream would be the only way to improve lipids, if that article is correct? Or do u think u may be able to improve lipids by increasing E2 via upping ur test/ HCG doses?

Well you made really good point, that increasing T and HCG would further skew the ratio of androgens to estrogens.
So yes, I believe, only direct supplementation with E2 would be the way to test this E2=HDL theory.

 

[Luke76]

@Luke76
Although calcium score is not all the way accurate, I would at least get one done. Believe me, you will eventually pay the price in the long term with your current lipid profile.

Hi Nelson,

So you would keep checking on your hearth and calcification issues?
I believe I’m dosing K2 properly to partially mitigate the calcification, but you would also check on Calcium levels overall as a part of regular check ups?