Tested my son for testosterone

[Mastodont]

I think finding a doctor who could fully asses the situation is a shot in the dark, most guys here have a better idea of necessary lab tests prior to first starting trt than most doctors do. That is some very important data, and costs money for sure. Also most guys have a better idea on whether to start injections or not, i feel there are doctors who try anything but trt, but do not offer nonpharma solutions, and then doctors and clinics who push very high dose trt, neither usually performing sufficient tests. Most who are aware probably just go in to get legal trt.

Regarding test levels, there is data on athletes that show some surprisingly low test numbers, yet they are doing just fine, test level seems to be individual, like resting heart rate, this is probably why some people have a hard time coping with "standard" doses, especially on weekly administration where the peaks are always supra.

Btw, OP does not hold a high opinion on doctors in general, but when a doc tells that his sons t-levels are too low, it is duly noted How low were they then?

Lets hope it´s not just a honeymoon phase that many have experienced. Looking forward to updates.

This thread is TRT parenting 101

 

[tareload]

the point that again antidepressant is not a scheduled drug (and hence will have easier time coming off the drug)

Oh really? You know this? Source or reference? Because T is scheduled and antidepressant (ADs) are not you are confident he will have easier time coming off the AD?

Tell me more please.


EDIT: replaced the original term SSRI with AD based on clarification from @TLawyer and to stay concistent with prior posts. My apology for giving the inadvertent false impression that Wellbutrin is an SSRI.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Oh really? You know this? Source or reference? Because T is scheduled and SSRIs are not you are confident he will have easier time coming off the SSRI?

Tell me more please.

Speak the truth! Antidepressants might not be addictive but they're certainly not benign. In 1989 Prozac jacked me into a two day sleepless manic episode, complete with hallucinations. That hastened my path to going in-patient. Years ago, my wife's primary prescribed Paxil. She was on it for only five days but ended up with nightmares for weeks!

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

It always pays to pay attention. I always throw in little things that @readalot catches.

No pharmaceutical company in the world makes 300mg/ml test enanthate. It tends to crash badly unless you very good at doing it and add just the right amount of ethyl oleate. I have seen 350mg/ml done. But nothing is going to piss a customer off to have to put their testosterone in the microwave everytime they need to use it becuae it is nothing but crystals. Now, Bravo phama in Mexico made 250 years ago.

There's a pharmaceutical company(have to find their name) in India that manufactures 250 mg/mL test E. Not imported into the US.

 

[TLawyer]

Oh really? You know this? Source or reference? Because T is scheduled and SSRIs are not you are confident he will have easier time coming off the SSRI?

Tell me more please.

Wellbutrin isn’t a SSRI. That was the antidepressant he was referring to as it was the one I was referencing.

 

[tareload]

Wellbutrin isn’t a SSRI. That was the antidepressant he was referring to as it was the one I was referencing.

Correct and thank you for the comment. To be consistent with the antecedent I should have written antidepressants (ADs) and not SSRIs. Please remove term SSRIs and add ADs in place. Actually I will do that since I have that privilege on here. Please forgive my shortcut. The rest of my comments and questions stand....

===
Oh really? You know this? Source or reference? Because T is scheduled and antidepressants (ADs) are not you are confident he will have easier time coming off the AD?
===

Bupropion - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

@TLawyer Funny you mention your past/current? TRT provider's name in this thread. Next time you have an appt ask him his thoughts on ADs if you are interested.

 

[tareload]

Pilot Randomized Clinical Trial of an SSRI vs Bupropion: Effects on Suicidal Behavior, Ideation, and Mood in Major Depression

Randomized controlled trials in depressed patients selected for elevated suicidal risk are rare. The resultant lack of data leaves uncertainty about treatment in this population. This study compared a serotonin reuptake inhibitor with a noradrenergic/dopaminergic ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

SSRI versus bupropion effects on symptom clusters in suicidal depression: post hoc analysis of a randomized clinical trial - PubMed

ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT00429169.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Insomnia and Somnolence Associated With Second-Generation... : Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology

s compounds. The aim of this meta-analysis is to provide quantitative data about short-term rates of insomnia and somnolence associated with 14 second-generation antidepressants during the treatment of major depression. Methods A literature search and a search of unpublished documents were...

journals.lww.com

 

[TLawyer]

Correct and thank you for the comment. To be consistent with the antecedent I should have written antidepressants (ADs) and not SSRIs. Please remove term SSRIs and add ADs in place. Actually I will do that since I have that privilege on here. Please forgive my shortcut. The rest of my comments and questions stand....

===
Oh really? You know this? Source or reference? Because T is scheduled and antidepressants (ADs) are not you are confident he will have easier time coming off the AD?
===

Bupropion - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

@TLawyer Funny you mention your past/current? TRT provider's name in this thread. Next time you have an appt ask him his thoughts on ADs if you are interested.

I have researched Bupropion and the side effects (which, again, all drugs have), particularly compared to SSRIs. Very different mechanism of action. I take it myself after doing my own research AND discussing and getting it prescribed by my doctor. I am comfortable with the risk profile at my dosage, and so is my doctor. I have discussed with Defy as well and no issues on their part in me taking it along with TRT. I would not be comfortable taking a SSRI based on what I have researched and discussions with my doctor unless it was a dire situation, but others may be comfortable doing it. For me, Bupropion has had a very significant positive effect on my life, and I am hoping that TRT only adds to that.

 

[Mastodont]

There's a pharmaceutical company(have to find their name) in India that manufactures 250 mg/mL test E. Not imported into the US.

It's funny how all test in europe is always 250mg/ml.

Regarding side effects comparison with antidepressants and testosterone, recently was looking at xyosted and came across this:
5.16 Risk of Depression and Suicide
Depression and suicidal ideation and behavior, including completed suicide, have occurred during clinical trials
in patients treated with XYOSTED. Advise patients and caregivers to seek medical attention for manifestations
of suicidal ideation or behavior, new onset or worsening depression, anxiety, or other mood changes.

As we know it is not a common side effect and really leaves a lot of room for speculation, but just to illustrate how non-relevant the side effect lists usually are. Not advocating ADs or SSRIs especially.

Dr rob kominiarek had a presentation on bad outcomes with trt, his stance was that some guys need to add SSRI to defeat the anxiousness, panic attacks etc that trt induced. This had something to do with added serotonin reuptake transporter and Monoamine oxidase SNP. It's been a while since i listened to it and this thread is not the best place for it but i'll put it in anyway just so someone does not have to ask about it.

 

[Mastodont]

I have researched Bupropion and the side effects (which, again, all drugs have), particularly compared to SSRIs. Very different mechanism of action. I take it myself after doing my own research AND discussing and getting it prescribed by my doctor. I am comfortable with the risk profile at my dosage, and so is my doctor. I have discussed with Defy as well and no issues on their part in me taking it along with TRT. I would not be comfortable taking a SSRI based on what I have researched and discussions with my doctor unless it was a dire situation, but others may be comfortable doing it. For me, Bupropion has had a very significant positive effect on my life, and I am hoping that TRT only adds to that.

How long you been on it, can you also elaborate on the positive effects further?

 

[TLawyer]

How long you been on it, can you also elaborate on the positive effects further?

About 5 months. Better mood, outlook, energy, and motivation. Improved libido as well, although that probably goes hand in hand with a better mood.

 

[BigTex]

There's a pharmaceutical company(have to find their name) in India that manufactures 250 mg/mL test E. Not imported into the US.

Taj Pharma (Hitman-NX). Yes it is VERY hard to legally import testosterone into the USA.

 

[BigTex]

Pilot Randomized Clinical Trial of an SSRI vs Bupropion: Effects on Suicidal Behavior, Ideation, and Mood in Major Depression

Randomized controlled trials in depressed patients selected for elevated suicidal risk are rare. The resultant lack of data leaves uncertainty about treatment in this population. This study compared a serotonin reuptake inhibitor with a noradrenergic/dopaminergic ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

SSRI versus bupropion effects on symptom clusters in suicidal depression: post hoc analysis of a randomized clinical trial - PubMed

ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT00429169.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Insomnia and Somnolence Associated With Second-Generation... : Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology

s compounds. The aim of this meta-analysis is to provide quantitative data about short-term rates of insomnia and somnolence associated with 14 second-generation antidepressants during the treatment of major depression. Methods A literature search and a search of unpublished documents were...

journals.lww.com

@readalot. I realize the stigma associated with athletes and most think we are just dumb jocks; however, I was a certified special education teacher while being in public schools. I believe it or not, was very good at my job. I dealt with a huge population of special education students that were automatically given anti-depressant if they even have sniffles. Nurses went room to room handing them out like candy. These kids hated that medication and freely let me know. They took it and were like zombies to the point I had to go around the class waking them up. Most of them would eventually toss their medication in the trash after the nurse left. They absolutely didn't like the way the medication made them feel.

As listed by Harvard University Medical School:

Suicide​

The risk that antidepressants will incite violent or self-destructive actions is the subject of continuing controversy. In 2004, the FDA first initiated a Black Box Warning on SSRIs — its strongest available measure short of withdrawing a drug from the market. The warning is still placed on package inserts for all antidepressants in common use. It mentions the risk of suicidal thoughts, hostility, and agitation in children, teens and young adults.

The number of antidepressant prescriptions for children and teens, which rose rapidly throughout the 1990s, fell precipitously after the Black Box Warning was issued. However, there is the other side of under treatment of depression. The lifetime suicide rate of people with major depression is 15%, and depression can also be lethal in other ways; for example, a history of major depression doubles the risk of heart disease.

 

[BigTex]

Hey, anyone interested in jumping on that Bupropion

Discover how to buy Bupropion safely and effectively for depression, smoking cessation, and ADHD treatment. Learn about dosages, side effects, and precautions.

www.buy-pharma.md

 

[Mastodont]

About 5 months. Better mood, outlook, energy, and motivation. Improved libido as well, although that probably goes hand in hand with a better mood.

Yeah it seems to be the case even if t levels are low, better mood and no anxiousness equal libido, you are also on trt during this time?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Wellbutrin isn’t a SSRI. That was the antidepressant he was referring to as it was the one I was referencing.

It's a Selective Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor. An antidpressant.

 

[TLawyer]

Yeah it seems to be the case even if t levels are low, better mood and no anxiousness equal libido, you are also on trt during this time?

Yes, I have been on TRT for 3 weeks now. I was on it for about 6 months a few years back but stopped to see how I could do with Enclomiphene. Numbers weren’t bad, felt ok but not great. Libido and sexual function could have been much better. Was on that for about 2 years and the FDA issues with it was impetus for me to stop and commit to TRT this time for the long haul. Even with a total testosterone of 275 and a free of 6, the Bupropion still had me feeling pretty good. I’m just back on TRT now obviously to feel even better but also to combat any health issues with such low levels. TRT can help create more dopamine, and Bupropion can basically help it to stay around longer, so I am hoping for a good synergy.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

I have researched Bupropion and the side effects (which, again, all drugs have), particularly compared to SSRIs. Very different mechanism of action. I take it myself after doing my own research AND discussing and getting it prescribed by my doctor. I am comfortable with the risk profile at my dosage, and so is my doctor. I have discussed with Defy as well and no issues on their part in me taking it along with TRT. I would not be comfortable taking a SSRI based on what I have researched and discussions with my doctor unless it was a dire situation, but others may be comfortable doing it. For me, Bupropion has had a very significant positive effect on my life, and I am hoping that TRT only adds to that.

Made me hyper, horny and messed up my sleep. Tried it several times and always the same. And this was low dose. The majority of doctors, whether primaries or even psychiatrists, are going to opt for prescribing an AD rather than run a full hormone panel AND even if they do, they have to know how to interpret the results, not just say "It's all okay. You're normal".

 

[TLawyer]

It's a Selective Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor. An antidpressant.

Yes, an antidepressant, but a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI). The low incidence of sexual side effects compared to SSRIs in most, and if anything an enhancement of libido and sexual function in some, is what sold me on it.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Taj Pharma (Hitman-NX). Yes it is VERY hard to legally import testosterone into the USA.

Thanks for that! For whatever reason($$$ to politicians?) West-Ward/Hikma Pharma is the only Test E available. Where's the competition that supposed to be at the heart of a free market economy? And the raw powder comes from China. Not that expensive. The mark up on testosterone, IMO, is huge.