Tested my son for testosterone

[TLawyer]

Made me hyper, horny and messed up my sleep. Tried it several times and always the same. And this was low dose. The majority of doctors, whether primaries or even psychiatrists, are going to opt for prescribing an AD rather than run a full hormone panel AND even if they do, they have to know how to interpret the results, not just say "It's all okay. You're normal".

The first 6 weeks or so can be a rollercoaster when it comes to side effects, but that is pretty well known. Not an ideal antidepressant for those who are naturally anxious as it can make you more anxious with its stimulant effect. Sleep was hit or miss for me during those first 6 weeks, and I seemed to be very dehydrated. I am glad I stuck it out though as all of that literally disappeared around the 6 week mark.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Yes, an antidepressant, but a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI). The low incidence of sexual side effects compared to SSRIs in most, and if anything an enhancement of libido and sexual function in some, is what sold me on it.

I've read that sexual side effects are reported more often on the SSRIs. If what you're taking helps you, emotionally and sexually, that's good.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

The first 6 weeks or so can be a rollercoaster when it comes to side effects, but that is pretty well known. Not an ideal antidepressant for those who are naturally anxious as it can make you more anxious with its stimulant effect. Sleep was hit or miss for me during those first 6 weeks, and I seemed to be very dehydrated. I am glad I stuck it out though as all of that literally disappeared around the 6 week mark.

For me, with treatment resistant bipolar, anything can either cause me to crash or become hypomanic, irritable or worsen my mixed state.

 

[BigTex]

Exactly right.....what happened to the free market? One might think with this push for globilism we could easily purchase our medication ragardless of the classification by internet from anywhere in the world with a prescription. Maybe this will give everyone an idea of the real shafting we get.

Straight out of China from a very trustworty source:

testosterone enanthate - 100g -$190USD, 500g - $470USD, 1kg - $790USD

100g - 50 vials of 200mg/ml, 10ml. Thats about $3.80/10ml. Pennies on the dollar for oil and solvent and minimal time manufacturing and putting it in vials. No lab is going to purchase 100g, more likely a few kgs.

Take a look at how much big pharma donates to politicians and parties

Pfizer Inc Profile: Summary

Pfizer Inc organization profile. Contributions in the 2022 cycle: $2,183,846. Lobbying in 2021: $0. Outside Spending in the 2022 cycle: $0.

www.opensecrets.org

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

Oh really? You know this? Source or reference? Because T is scheduled and antidepressant (ADs) are not you are confident he will have easier time coming off the AD?

Tell me more please.


EDIT: replaced the original term SSRI with AD based on clarification from @TLawyer and to stay concistent with prior posts. My apology for giving the inadvertent false impression that Wellbutrin is an SSRI.

I mean what do benzos, opioids, and testosterone all have in common? They’re all scheduled drugs and are notorious for having the worst withdrawals of any type or class of drugs. That’s the whole point of them being controlled substances (ie tightly regulated) because they cause dependency of the most extreme kind. I understand antidepressants also have their challenges. I’m not saying they don’t, but comparing one to the other is apples and oranges imo. Someone withdrawing from ad is likely to have weeks vs months of wd symptoms from scheduled drugs. I honestly thought this was common knowledge.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Exactly right.....what happened to the free market? One might think with this push for globilism we could easily purchase our medication ragardless of the classification by internet from anywhere in the world with a prescription. Maybe this will give everyone an idea of the real shafting we get.

Straight out of China from a very trustworty source:

testosterone enanthate - 100g -$190USD, 500g - $470USD, 1kg - $790USD

100g - 50 vials of 200mg/ml, 10ml. Thats about $3.80/10ml. Pennies on the dollar for oil and solvent and minimal time manufacturing and putting it in vials. No lab is going to purchase 100g, more likely a few kgs.

Take a look at how much big pharma donates to politicians and parties

Pfizer Inc Profile: Summary

Pfizer Inc organization profile. Contributions in the 2022 cycle: $2,183,846. Lobbying in 2021: $0. Outside Spending in the 2022 cycle: $0.

www.opensecrets.org

Thank you for the analysis. And we know that the larger the purchase for the raw materials, the less it costs. As you said, the companies that manufacture testosterone purchase large amounts of the raw powder. Same for the PDE-5 drugs. From Mexico or India, inexpensive. But when Big Pharma is buying politicans/political parties, money talks. Insulin is another example. People need it to live and they're being extorted, even by generic manufacturers. The message seems to be, with a big middle finger, 'Our profit margin is more important than your health and survival.'

 

[Charliebizz]

I have researched Bupropion and the side effects (which, again, all drugs have), particularly compared to SSRIs. Very different mechanism of action. I take it myself after doing my own research AND discussing and getting it prescribed by my doctor. I am comfortable with the risk profile at my dosage, and so is my doctor. I have discussed with Defy as well and no issues on their part in me taking it along with TRT. I would not be comfortable taking a SSRI based on what I have researched and discussions with my doctor unless it was a dire situation, but others may be comfortable doing it. For me, Bupropion has had a very significant positive effect on my life, and I am hoping that TRT only adds to that.

in big Tex defense. if People are saying 475 t levels “might not be low “ at least we even have tests for testosterone and hormones. Using antidepressants is completely flying blind. It’s all based of symptoms. No way to truly test NT. And they still aren’t even sure the true mechanism of actions for most of the medications. Especially ssri. So based off your logic. Treating low t off symptoms rather then lab work should be the way to go !!

 

[Charliebizz]

in big Tex defense. if People are saying 475 t levels “might not be low “ at least we even have tests for testosterone and hormones. Using antidepressants is completely flying blind. It’s all based of symptoms. No way to truly test NT. And they still aren’t even sure the true mechanism of actions for most of the medications. Especially ssri. So based off your logic. Treating low t off symptoms rather then lab work should be the way to go !!

I forgot to add in last post That tlawyer also has valid points. For me personally, I believe trt has caused depression. I’ve never been a depressed person in my life. I would get situationally depressed. And not feeling well all the time def gave me depressed feelings at times. But never felt defeated. On trt. I feel mentally and emotionally flat. I have no zest for life like I used to. I just go about my days like a damn robot. And I’m def not that guy. I’m the life of the party type guy. And now I just fight to feel any joy in things. Trt has helped me with a few issues I don’t want to give up. But being depressed is a very tough trade off. I seemed to do better on low dose ssri with my trt. Maybe it is damage from coming off the ssri 2 years ago. But who knows.

 

[BigTex]

Obviously TRT is a very individual thing. There are so many hormonal interactions in our body that science still doesn't have a grasp on what is going on. We, end the end have to be the judge of whether or not it is working. All the blood test in the world means nothing when we still don't feel good.

I had low T - 324. I know why I had low T and told my doctor, he prescribed cypionate and now I feel what I refer to as "normal" again. I didn't need a million and one tests to determine that and would not have done them. Same with anti-depressants. If they help you feel better than by all means take them. I won't take one, but others certainly have that right to be their own judge.

I take about 30 pills each day of my life, some pharma and some supplements and am perfectly fine living this way. I also take in 4 servings of whey protein and 2 weight gain shakes. Done this for years. My wife can’t do it, but that is her choice. Again, we all have to make personal decisions as an adult.

TRT doesn’t have to be for life, if you try it and don’t like it, get off. It is not that difficult to cycle off, do some kind of PCT and walk away. Athletes have been doing this successfully for decades. Then go another direction. Those of us who have chosen to do it and like the results certainly have no problem with doing it for life. I tell the same thing to people who want to do hGH and peptides. It involves a lot of injections and must be done for long periods of time to see the results. Make sure you can be dedicated and deal with all of the injections as well as some of the uncomfortable side effects.

Again, I am sure these low T centers, like Defy who advertise on this board are great places with very good doctors. I would never speak a bad word about them. Personally, I will never go to any doctor, not matter what field that doesn’t take my Medicare Advantage card. I have a $5 copay for doctor visits, $5 for generic medications and lab work is free. Makes absolutely NO sense for me to pay cash and I just won’t do it. But that is my personal choice in life. If my insurance won’t cover a medication that I feel I need, I have no problem finding a source that will sell it to me. My wife feels the same way and of course our 26-year-old son, who will be 27 in a few days feels the same way. Speaking of him, he got up this morning without me having to tell him and did his HCG injection. He also went to the gym 4 days last week and has been quite a bit more social. Like I said before, it is the TRT? Who knows, but my wife and I have noted the sudden change and like what we are seeing. Maybe it is a placebo effect. But the rest is up to him. He either continues or he does PCT and gets off. He is very aware of how to do that without even asking me., My wife and I certainly don’t need free testosterone test to tell us we see a change.

 

[tareload]

benzos, opioids, and testosterone all have in common? They’re all scheduled drugs and are notorious for having the worst withdrawals of any type or class of drugs.

I honestly thought this was common knowledge

Maybe it is uncommon knowledge. Look up the story and history on how AAS and testosterone became scheduled.

https://ideas.dickinsonlaw.psu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3273&context=dlra

See pp. 149 -150. I am sure Nelson could give us a wonderful lecture on how absurd it was to schedule AAS at the time (an opinion also held by the AMA and DEA as per their sworn testimony to congress).

Joke. Let us see who goes to the trouble of reading this comprehensive summary from 1992.

 

[BigTex]

in big Tex defense. if People are saying 475 t levels “might not be low “ at least we even have tests for testosterone and hormones. Using antidepressants is completely flying blind. It’s all based of symptoms. No way to truly test NT. And they still aren’t even sure the true mechanism of actions for most of the medications. Especially ssri. So based off your logic. Treating low t off symptoms rather then lab work should be the way to go !!

AMEN! @Charliebizz, since I was in special education I know what tests the diagnosticians used to test for depression:

The Patient Health Questionnaire-9 (PHQ-9) -- a 9-item self-administered diagnostic screening and severity tool based on current diagnostic criteria for major depression. Beck Depression Inventory (BDI), -- a 21-question multiple-choice self-report that measures the severity of depression symptoms and feelings.

So, they then get doctors they work with to start prescribing AIs based on a questionaire. Kind of scarey to say they least. This is why so many kids are takng these drugs. A cleaver kid sure could fake answers on this document and get anti-depressants to sell to his friends. I looked at them both one time and figured out quickly how to be diagnosed as clinically depressed. In special education, its all about federal money.

 

[M.J]

OK, this guy is 26 years old and had to move back home with Mom and Dad to take a new road in life. He has been very depressed and my wife and I taked him into doing some blood work. He did the following:
Standard Lipid Panel - all was normal even considering he ate before he went and they used fasted norms
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel - All normal
CBC - All normal
Total Testosterone - 467
Estradiol - 24

OK, all is well but I am certainly not happy seeing a 467 total testosterone on a 26 year old, healthy male. I would like to see it closer to the 827 top end at Quest.

Started him off with 150mg of test enanthate every 7 days + 250iu of HCG on the 5th and 250iu on the 6 days beofre the dose. I taught him how to do sub-q. We will test again in 3 months but cut the lipid and CMP. and add a few more panels. I started him on enenthate because I have 20ml of 300mg/ml already available. But I am going to swith to cypionate later on.

Within 24 hours he left his room and went to the gym and over did it. Now he is so sore he can't move. Hopefully this will help some of his depression and get him more actively engaged in making positive changes in his life. We just paid for him to enter truck driving school so he will have a trade and can start making money quickly. He screwed up his college career already wanting to do his own thing. Raising kids this day and age is HARD.

I don’t see test timing is mentioned here.
testosterone test should take place early morning I think before 10 clock after good sleep.

Testosterone moves up and down and can go down to 400 or less depending on the range.

I think the standard to make sure it’s low take two test in the morning. Before 10am.

 

[BigTex]

I don’t see test timing is mentioned here.
testosterone test should take place early morning I think before 10 clock after good sleep.

Testosterone moves up and down and can go down to 400 or less depending on the range.

I think the standard to make sure it’s low take two test in the morning. Before 10am.

If you read more of this 500 page debacle you will find it. He went to Quest at 8am

 

[tareload]

Maybe it is uncommon knowledge. Look up the story and history on how AAS and testosterone became scheduled.

https://ideas.dickinsonlaw.psu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3273&context=dlra

See pp. 149 -150. I am sure Nelson could give us a wonderful lecture on how absurd it was to schedule AAS at the time (an opinion also held by the AMA and DEA as per their sworn testimony to congress).

Joke.

Of course now we have come to this....

Plans & Pricing

Plans & PricingClick to expand/collapse our products, pricing, and plans.Please note: These prices are for reference only and could change at any time. For the most up to date pricing, please do contact us. We reserve the right to change pricing due to market fluctuations at anytime.Who We Are &

hormonesforme.com

So much for trying to stop it. See the Reason article I posted in another post as well.

 

[tareload]

this 500 page debacle

I disagree. This is a great thread. Thanks again.

 

[BigTex]

Thanks @readalot. I admit I did get a little pissy at some of the personal attack.

 

[excelnelg]

Thanks @readalot. I admit I did get a little pissy at some of the personal attack.

No offense, but I think you're being overly sensitive. I saw some contrary opinions and comments, but nothing that would constitute a personal attack. It's not exactly every day that someone posts about medicating their adult son.

 

[BigTex]

Of course now we have come to this....

Plans & Pricing

Plans & PricingClick to expand/collapse our products, pricing, and plans.Please note: These prices are for reference only and could change at any time. For the most up to date pricing, please do contact us. We reserve the right to change pricing due to market fluctuations at anytime.Who We Are &

hormonesforme.com

So much for trying to stop it. See the Reason article I posted in another post as well.

Thank you for posting @readalot. Oddly enough, the statement Sen. Joe Biden made about anabolic steroids being used more frequently that crack cocaine among high school athletes is laughable. All my time as a high school/college coach I saw NO kids that were using steroids. In fact, Texas spent $6 billion on this steroid witch hunt only to find 11 kids positive in the 16 years we wasted money. Most of those who tested positive, fought the test and were found to be a false positive. Testing for weed and alcohol might have been a much better bang for the money that was wasted.

As far as the public being outraged and concerned for professional sports, its only because the media harped on it for so many years. We go see professional athletes and expect high performance week after week. More home runs, harder tackles, faster spring times and higher jumps, yet when these guys and girls don't give the public what they want or get hurt, the public turns on them. Its kind of a no-win situation. Then the part about the ADA and I believe as well as the DEA not wanting to do this.....looks like no one listened.

Americans should have learned a lesson from Prohibition. When you take something that the majority of the people want. They will find a way to still do it. In the case of alcohol, the mafia found a way to supply alcohol and ran the clubs for people to drink. The mafia got rich, and violence was now a part of the alcohol business.

Recreational drugs went the same way. We have spent over a $trillion on the war on drugs and the problem is much worse, more deadly and the violence surrounding the supply of drugs is tremendous.

Anabolic steroids went the same direction. Doctors were threatened, athletes would not ask doctors for help and the problems remained and has most definitely grown. Soon organized crime and entire countries got involved in the importation of drugs. Along with the corruption, the violence has also entered the steroid business. Yet the witch hunt continues.

 

[tareload]

Thank you for posting @readalot. Oddly enough, the statement Sen. Joe Biden made about anabolic steroids being used more frequently that crack cocaine among high school athletes is laughable. All my time as a high school/college coach I saw NO kids that were using steroids. In fact, Texas spent $6 billion on this steroid witch hunt only to find 11 kids positive in the 16 years we wasted money. Most of those who tested positive, fought the test and were found to be a false positive. Testing for weed and alcohol might have been a much better bang for the money that was wasted.

As far as the public being outraged and concerned for professional sports, its only because the media harped on it for so many years. We go see professional athletes and expect high performance week after week. More home runs, harder tackles, faster spring times and higher jumps, yet when these guys and girls don't give the public what they want or get hurt, the public turns on them. Its kind of a no-win situation. Then the part about the ADA and I believe as well as the DEA not wanting to do this.....looks like no one listened.

Americans should have learned a lesson from Prohibition. When you take something that the majority of the people want. They will find a way to still do it. In the case of alcohol, the mafia found a way to supply alcohol and ran the clubs for people to drink. The mafia got rich, and violence was now a part of the alcohol business.

Recreational drugs went the same way. We have spent over a $trillion on the war on drugs and the problem is much worse, more deadly and the violence surrounding the supply of drugs is tremendous.

Anabolic steroids went the same direction. Doctors were threatened, athletes would not ask doctors for help and the problems remained and has most definitely grown. Soon organized crime and entire countries got involved in the importation of drugs. Along with the corruption, the violence has also entered the steroid business. Yet the witch hunt continues.

Medical and Nonmedical Uses of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids

Recent trends in the use, abuse, and diversion of steroids for nonmedical purposes illustrate a growing problem that not only imposes health risks but presents ethical dilemmas as well. Concern over the known adverse effects, the limited research into the long-term effects, and the ethics of...

jamanetwork.com

See AMA recommendation 3 published 1990.

 

[BigTex]

No offense, but I think you're being overly sensitive. I saw some contrary opinions and comments, but nothing that would constitute a personal attack. It's not exactly every day that someone posts about medicating their adult son.

When comments are made like "Very disappointing parenting" I tend to get a little pissy. That pal is a personal attack. I am a big boy and have never had any problem defending myself or my family.