Tested my son for testosterone

[Deleted member 43589]

OK, this guy is 26 years old and had to move back home with Mom and Dad to take a new road in life. He has been very depressed and my wife and I taked him into doing some blood work. He did the following:
Standard Lipid Panel - all was normal even considering he ate before he went and they used fasted norms
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel - All normal
CBC - All normal
Total Testosterone - 467
Estradiol - 24

OK, all is well but I am certainly not happy seeing a 467 total testosterone on a 26 year old, healthy male. I would like to see it closer to the 827 top end at Quest.

Started him off with 150mg of test enanthate every 7 days + 250iu of HCG on the 5th and 250iu on the 6 days beofre the dose. I taught him how to do sub-q. We will test again in 3 months but cut the lipid and CMP. and add a few more panels. I started him on enenthate because I have 20ml of 300mg/ml already available. But I am going to swith to cypionate later on.

Within 24 hours he left his room and went to the gym and over did it. Now he is so sore he can't move. Hopefully this will help some of his depression and get him more actively engaged in making positive changes in his life. We just paid for him to enter truck driving school so he will have a trade and can start making money quickly. He screwed up his college career already wanting to do his own thing. Raising kids this day and age is HARD.

 

[tareload]

OK, this guy is 26 years old and had to move back home with Mom and Dad to take a new road in life. He has been very depressed and my wife and I taked him into doing some blood work. He did the following:
Standard Lipid Panel - all was normal even considering he ate before he went and they used fasted norms
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel - All normal
CBC - All normal
Total Testosterone - 467
Estradiol - 24

OK, all is well but I am certainly not happy seeing a 467 total testosterone on a 26 year old, healthy male. I would like to see it closer to the 827 top end at Quest.

Started him off with 150mg of test enanthate every 7 days + 250iu of HCG on the 5th and 250iu on the 6 days beofre the dose. I taught him how to do sub-q. We will test again in 3 months but cut the lipid and CMP. and add a few more panels. I started him on enenthate because I have 20ml of 300mg/ml already available. But I am going to swith to cypionate later on.

Within 24 hours he left his room and went to the gym and over did it. Now he is so sore he can't move. Hopefully this will help some of his depression and get him more actively engaged in making positive changes in his life. We just paid for him to enter truck driving school so he will have a trade and can start making money quickly. He screwed up his college career already wanting to do his own thing. Raising kids this day and age is HARD.

Thank you for taking the time to share your and your son's story. This is sensitive and raw material. I wish you and him the best.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Thanks @readalot. He went from being in a petroleum engineer school to dropping out and working whatever job he could find. Now he is at the end of the line and has nowhere to go but back with his parents. We have to get him back on track and my wife and I feel his t-levels could be an issue with his depression. Hey, I made a lot of bad choices in my life too.

 

[tareload]

Thanks @readalot. He went from being in a petroleum engineer school to dropping out and working whatever job he could find. Now he is at the end of the line and has nowhere to go but back with his parents. We have to get him back on track and my wife and I feel his t-levels could be an issue with his depression. Hey, I made a lot of bad choices in my life too.

Brother, parenting is hard stuff. I am pulling for him. I know from experience you have to hit the bottom sometime before you have the motivation to rise up and reach for the top. Sometimes you don't know what you got till it is gone. Yes that is a song lyric but true. But even then you can use that experience to motivate yourself to new heights.

Hang in there.

 

[Fortunate]

Thanks @readalot. He went from being in a petroleum engineer school to dropping out and working whatever job he could find. Now he is at the end of the line and has nowhere to go but back with his parents. We have to get him back on track and my wife and I feel his t-levels could be an issue with his depression. Hey, I made a lot of bad choices in my life too.

Just be there for him. You and your wife are what he needs. Never give up on him. He knows you believe in him and that’s as important as anything.

I agree with @readalot - there are no manuals for this stuff. We grow along with our kids.

 

[Gman86]

Would have loved to see his SHBG and free T levels. When I was 27 and had most of the symptoms of low T, my total was around 700. But my SHBG was around 55, and free T was bottom of the barrel during one set of labs, and then below the bottom of the range on another set of labs. And man did I feel it. Getting on test definitely made me feel so much better. Would have probably lost my job eventually if I didnt correct my low free T levels. Lost the relationship I was in because of it. So total T definitely doesn’t tell us the whole picture. And if I felt like hell with a total of around 700, who knows how low ur son’s free T potentially was

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

OK, this guy is 26 years old and had to move back home with Mom and Dad to take a new road in life. He has been very depressed and my wife and I taked him into doing some blood work. He did the following:
Standard Lipid Panel - all was normal even considering he ate before he went and they used fasted norms
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel - All normal
CBC - All normal
Total Testosterone - 467
Estradiol - 24

OK, all is well but I am certainly not happy seeing a 467 total testosterone on a 26 year old, healthy male. I would like to see it closer to the 827 top end at Quest.

Started him off with 150mg of test enanthate every 7 days + 250iu of HCG on the 5th and 250iu on the 6 days beofre the dose. I taught him how to do sub-q. We will test again in 3 months but cut the lipid and CMP. and add a few more panels. I started him on enenthate because I have 20ml of 300mg/ml already available. But I am going to swith to cypionate later on.

Within 24 hours he left his room and went to the gym and over did it. Now he is so sore he can't move. Hopefully this will help some of his depression and get him more actively engaged in making positive changes in his life. We just paid for him to enter truck driving school so he will have a trade and can start making money quickly. He screwed up his college career already wanting to do his own thing. Raising kids this day and age is HARD.

Your son is fortunate to have parents who care about him as well as knowing more than many doctors. I was a mess, literally from the day I was born, and have struggled all my life with mental health(depression, then bipolar illness) and marginal physical health. My parents were always there for me and I was there for them when they were in the last stage of their lives.

We all know the adage, "It's not how many times you get knocked down but how many times you get back up." With the help of you and your wife, he'll get back on his feet and find his way.

 

[tareload]

And if I felt like hell with a total of around 700, who knows how low ur son’s free T potentially was

The former has absolutely nothing to do with the latter. The "IF" statement as posed makes no sense. Quite possible his son's free T level is in the range of 10-20 ng/dl (pre-exogenous T use). We just don't know based on information given.

My read is this thread has little to do with TT/fT/SHBG. But it is fortunate there are parents involved who care and love/support their child.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

@BigTex Thanks for sharing.

What's your son's BMI and sleep patterns? Does he have long history with depression or is it circumstantial?

 

[TLawyer]

OK, this guy is 26 years old and had to move back home with Mom and Dad to take a new road in life. He has been very depressed and my wife and I taked him into doing some blood work. He did the following:
Standard Lipid Panel - all was normal even considering he ate before he went and they used fasted norms
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel - All normal
CBC - All normal
Total Testosterone - 467
Estradiol - 24

OK, all is well but I am certainly not happy seeing a 467 total testosterone on a 26 year old, healthy male. I would like to see it closer to the 827 top end at Quest.

Started him off with 150mg of test enanthate every 7 days + 250iu of HCG on the 5th and 250iu on the 6 days beofre the dose. I taught him how to do sub-q. We will test again in 3 months but cut the lipid and CMP. and add a few more panels. I started him on enenthate because I have 20ml of 300mg/ml already available. But I am going to swith to cypionate later on.

Within 24 hours he left his room and went to the gym and over did it. Now he is so sore he can't move. Hopefully this will help some of his depression and get him more actively engaged in making positive changes in his life. We just paid for him to enter truck driving school so he will have a trade and can start making money quickly. He screwed up his college career already wanting to do his own thing. Raising kids this day and age is HARD.

Did he take multiple blood tests? Is he under the supervision of a doctor to rule out other issues? Seems premature for a 26-year-old to jump on TRT based on one blood test with a total testosterone level of 467. Did you get his SHBG and Free T measured?

 

[Fortunate]

I like @Nelson Vergel's questions, as I think the approach to addressing your son's struggles may need to take multiple fronts. It may be helpful to consider some psychotherapy to fill in some of the gaps that parents just can't fill by themselves.

 

[Gman86]

The former has absolutely nothing to do with the latter. The "IF" statement as posed makes no sense. Quite possible his son's free T level is in the range of 10-20 ng/dl (pre-exogenous T use). We just don't know based on information given.

My read is this thread has little to do with TT/fT/SHBG. But it is fortunate there are parents involved who care and love/support their child.

Exactly. That’s why I said “potentially”. He could have a very low SHBG and healthy free T levels, or the opposite, or somewhere inbetween, impossible to say. But based on how his son has been feeling and performing in life, my guess is his free T levels are very low as well, and his parents are saints for stepping in and trying to help him the way they are. I know for me correcting my testosterone deficiency literally gave me my life back, and I went from feeling horrendous and barely being able to keep up with my life, to feeling like myself again and thriving at work and other aspects of my life. If I continued to have low T and feel the way I did for much longer I probably would have lost everything. I had to figure things out on my own unfortunately, which was a very difficult journey. Would have been an absolute godsend to have parents like he does that had the knowledge and willingness to help me out like they’re helping him

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Thanks @readalot. He went from being in a petroleum engineer school to dropping out and working whatever job he could find. Now he is at the end of the line and has nowhere to go but back with his parents. We have to get him back on track and my wife and I feel his t-levels could be an issue with his depression. Hey, I made a lot of bad choices in my life too.

Your son is not alone in his struggles. Men are only graduating college at half the rate of women now. While there are a multitude of factors involved that are toxic to the success of young men, I personally believe video games are one of the most impactful and harmful. They belong in the same conversation as drugs of abuse when it comes to strong artificial stimulation of the reward circuits, desensitization to the rewards of normal life, and sapping away ambition for personal and professional growth. I attempted and failed at college several times over the years, and was not able to succeed until I swore off gaming in my mid 30's.

There is often a chicken and egg problem with depression, because depression causes anhedonia, whereby your capacity to experience pleasure is reduced. In an effort to experience some pleasure and escape the pain of reality, the depressed person turns to mood-altering / numbing substances and behaviors, whether it is drinking, smoking pot, harder drugs, gaming, netflix binging, social media obsession, etc. Any of these can then maintain and exacerbate the depression, via their direct effects on the brain and by crowding out the behaviors that would improve depression, like exercise, socializing in real life, spending time outdoors, achieving things in real life, etc.

Sleep is very important as Nelson stated. I notice depressed people typically become nocturnal -- they stay up very late with their preferred flavor of digital escapism and then sleep late into the day. As above, this has both toxic effects on our biology and interferes with the antidepressant behaviors and rhythms of a normal life.

Therapy can also be of great value if negative thought patterns / cognitive distortions are playing a role, which is nearly always the case. If he's open to it, CBT can be very effective. If he likes to read and is inclined to self-help, give him some books on Stoicism, upon which modern CBT is based. Stoic philosophy gives you the tools to thrive no matter what life throws at you. I recommend How to Think Like a Roman Emperor and Stoicism and the Art of Happiness by Donald Robertson, The Practicing Stoic by Ward Farnsworth, and the original works of Marcus Aurelius, Seneca and Epictetus.

Diet and nutrition is very important for mental health, which I'm sure will improve now that he's back living with you. Any number of micronutrient deficiencies can cause depression, including several of the B-vitamins, iron, magnesium, vitamin D, etc. I didn't discover until just a few years ago that eating dairy products causes me a depressed mood. It doesn't happen until the second day after which made it devilishly hard to make the connection when eating a normal mixed diet. It wasn't until I was eating almost exclusively beef for awhile on a carnivore diet that I put it together. Wheat is another common culprit in mood disorders.

I think what you've done so far with giving him the testosterone and sending him to the gym is very likely to be helpful. You're putting to good use the tools you are familiar with and have at hand. I hope my random thoughts are also of some use to you and I wish your son a speedy path to recovery.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Did he take multiple blood tests? Is he under the supervision of a doctor to rule out other issues? Seems premature for a 26-year-old to jump on TRT based on one blood test with a total testosterone level of 467. Did you get his SHBG and Free T measured?

Taken in isolation, I agree with you. This total testosterone number alone, without any measurement or calculation of free T, does not warrant TRT. As a treatment for depression though, I think TRT will be more effective and less harmful than antidepressant medication.

 

[Fortunate]

Your son is not alone in his struggles. Men are only graduating college at half the rate of women now. While there are a multitude of factors involved that are toxic to the success of young men, I personally believe video games are one of the most impactful and harmful. They belong in the same conversation as drugs of abuse when it comes to strong artificial stimulation of the reward circuits, desensitization to the rewards of normal life, and sapping away ambition for personal and professional growth. I attempted and failed at college several times over the years, and was not able to succeed until I swore off gaming in my mid 30's.

There is often a chicken and egg problem with depression, because depression causes anhedonia, whereby your capacity to experience pleasure is reduced. In an effort to experience some pleasure and escape the pain of reality, the depressed person turns to mood-altering / numbing substances and behaviors, whether it is drinking, smoking pot, harder drugs, gaming, netflix binging, social media obsession, etc. Any of these can then maintain and exacerbate the depression, via their direct effects on the brain and by crowding out the behaviors that would improve depression, like exercise, socializing in real life, spending time outdoors, achieving things in real life, etc.

Sleep is very important as Nelson stated. I notice depressed people typically become nocturnal -- they stay up very late with their preferred flavor of digital escapism and then sleep late into the day. As above, this has both toxic effects on our biology and interferes with the antidepressant behaviors and rhythms of a normal life.

Therapy can also be of great value if negative thought patterns / cognitive distortions are playing a role, which is nearly always the case. If he's open to it, CBT can be very effective. If he likes to read and is inclined to self-help, give him some books on Stoicism, upon which modern CBT is based. Stoic philosophy gives you the tools to thrive no matter what life throws at you. I recommend How to Think Like a Roman Emperor and Stoicism and the Art of Happiness by Donald Robertson, The Practicing Stoic by Ward Farnsworth, and the original works of Marcus Aurelius, Seneca and Epictetus.

Diet and nutrition is very important for mental health, which I'm sure will improve now that he's back living with you. Any number of micronutrient deficiencies can cause depression, including several of the B-vitamins, iron, magnesium, vitamin D, etc. I didn't discover until just a few years ago that eating dairy products causes me a depressed mood. It doesn't happen until the second day after which made it devilishly hard to make the connection when eating a normal mixed diet. It wasn't until I was eating almost exclusively beef for awhile on a carnivore diet that I put it together. Wheat is another common culprit in mood disorders.

I think what you've done so far with giving him the testosterone and sending him to the gym is very likely to be helpful. You're putting to good use the tools you are familiar with and have at hand. I hope my random thoughts are also of some use to you and I wish your son a speedy path to recovery.

Fantastic

 

[TLawyer]

Taken in isolation, I agree with you. This total testosterone number alone, without any measurement or calculation of free T, does not warrant TRT. As a treatment for depression though, I think TRT will be more effective and less harmful than antidepressant medication.

More effective and less harmful based on what evidence? Not all antidepressant medications are the same. I just can't believe that the majority of those replying (many of whom should know better) seem to be supportive of a 26-year-old starting TRT based on one blood test that was largely incomplete. TRT should be a last resort and monitored by a medical professional. That certainly doesn't seem to be the case here.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Your son is not alone in his struggles. Men are only graduating college at half the rate of women now. While there are a multitude of factors involved that are toxic to the success of young men, I personally believe video games are one of the most impactful and harmful. They belong in the same conversation as drugs of abuse when it comes to strong artificial stimulation of the reward circuits, desensitization to the rewards of normal life, and sapping away ambition for personal and professional growth. I attempted and failed at college several times over the years, and was not able to succeed until I swore off gaming in my mid 30's.

There is often a chicken and egg problem with depression, because depression causes anhedonia, whereby your capacity to experience pleasure is reduced. In an effort to experience some pleasure and escape the pain of reality, the depressed person turns to mood-altering / numbing substances and behaviors, whether it is drinking, smoking pot, harder drugs, gaming, netflix binging, social media obsession, etc. Any of these can then maintain and exacerbate the depression, via their direct effects on the brain and by crowding out the behaviors that would improve depression, like exercise, socializing in real life, spending time outdoors, achieving things in real life, etc.

Sleep is very important as Nelson stated. I notice depressed people typically become nocturnal -- they stay up very late with their preferred flavor of digital escapism and then sleep late into the day. As above, this has both toxic effects on our biology and interferes with the antidepressant behaviors and rhythms of a normal life.

Therapy can also be of great value if negative thought patterns / cognitive distortions are playing a role, which is nearly always the case. If he's open to it, CBT can be very effective. If he likes to read and is inclined to self-help, give him some books on Stoicism, upon which modern CBT is based. Stoic philosophy gives you the tools to thrive no matter what life throws at you. I recommend How to Think Like a Roman Emperor and Stoicism and the Art of Happiness by Donald Robertson, The Practicing Stoic by Ward Farnsworth, and the original works of Marcus Aurelius, Seneca and Epictetus.

Diet and nutrition is very important for mental health, which I'm sure will improve now that he's back living with you. Any number of micronutrient deficiencies can cause depression, including several of the B-vitamins, iron, magnesium, vitamin D, etc. I didn't discover until just a few years ago that eating dairy products causes me a depressed mood. It doesn't happen until the second day after which made it devilishly hard to make the connection when eating a normal mixed diet. It wasn't until I was eating almost exclusively beef for awhile on a carnivore diet that I put it together. Wheat is another common culprit in mood disorders.

I think what you've done so far with giving him the testosterone and sending him to the gym is very likely to be helpful. You're putting to good use the tools you are familiar with and have at hand. I hope my random thoughts are also of some use to you and I wish your son a speedy path to recovery.

I'm 72. From childhood had melancholy, depression, mood swings, Tourette's/OCD, motivational problems/learning problems, food/pollen sensitivities, migraines. Long before computers, video games, porn and no drug or alcohol experimentation. Did B12 injections, B-complex tablets, liquid magnesium, vitamin C, allergy shots, elimination diet(wheat, dairy, sugar, eggs, chicken/20 years). The only thing positive I had, starting when I was a pre-teen, until I was near 50, was excellent libido/desire and erections. In that realm, I was bullet proof. My sexual function never failed.

I'm not saying any of this to counter your experiences and successes. I congratulate you. I believe, though, there's so much that isn't understood at the cellular level and in the neuro-endocrine system. Mental illness/suicide is on the rise, as is dementia. I agree that social/environmental/dietary factors are involved but I don't believe that's the whole picture. We're not even close.

 

[Fortunate]

More effective and less harmful based on what evidence? Not all antidepressant medications are the same. I just can't believe that the majority of those replying (many of whom should know better) seem to be supportive of a 26-year-old starting TRT based on one blood test that was largely incomplete. TRT should be a last resort and monitored by a medical professional. That certainly doesn't seem to be the case here.

I think this is a good point. Technically, it may have been premature to start TRT given the known information. On the other hand, I think many of us can relate to being a parent and want to lend support. A lot of the posts suggest considering a holistic approach, instead of focusing on hormones alone. Again, though, this point is well taken.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

@BigTex Thanks for sharing.

What's your son's BMI and sleep patterns? Does he have long history with depression or is it circumstantial?

Nelson, he is a tall thin guy. I am 6'1", he is 6'5". Huge feet. Yes he has a history of depression. His sleep patterns are horrible. He stays up late at night and sleeps late. We have very limited knowledge of what has gone on in his life since he left home 7 years ago. He chose to let his hair grow out and wears these silly man buns, grew a beard and then can't imagine how he can't find work. We both just keep our mouths closed about it.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

More effective and less harmful based on what evidence? Not all antidepressant medications are the same.

Before I spend much time on this can you clarify what you are most skeptical about? Is it the efficacy of testosterone for depression, the ineffectiveness of antidepressant drugs, or the idea that antidepressants could be more harmful than testosterone?

I just can't believe that the majority of those replying (many of whom should know better) seem to be supportive of a 26-year-old starting TRT based on one blood test that was largely incomplete. TRT should be a last resort and monitored by a medical professional. That certainly doesn't seem to be the case here.

It wouldn't have been my first option but I do think it is likely to help. We all run these risk/benefit analyses differently based on what we've seen in life. From what I can glean about BigTex through his postings here, with his background and life experience, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that this is how he would respond to his son's depression. You could do alot worse in my opinion.