Tested my son for testosterone

[Biobro]

That doesn’t seem like a fun test To take lol. how are guys treating possible gh deficiency. Would it be easier to trial a peptide or actually go for the test and possibly get real gh ?

Arginine stimulation test shouldnt be that bad, compared to insulin induced hypoglycemia test. If you have gh deficiency and have prescription I would pick always real gh over peptides.
So go for the test.

 

[BigTex]

That doesn’t seem like a fun test To take lol. how are guys treating possible gh deficiency. Would it be easier to trial a peptide or actually go for the test and possibly get real gh ?

I will throw this in before you made any decisions:

"Currently, the FDA has approved the use of growth hormone therapy for actually only two conditions: for growth hormone deficiencies resulting in arrested development in children, and for the loss of muscle that occurs in HIV/AIDS patients." Anything else is considered "off-label purposes."

Therefore, insurance companies rarely cover hGH unless it falls under FDA approved uses. Doesn't mean you can get a script for GH deficiency, but most likely your insurance company will not pay for it. So check out the prices paying cash for pharma hGH and compare that with the price of peptides. You can generally expect to pay anywhere from $18.00 to $25.00 an IU of hGH. Most use 2iu/d. Peptides on the other hand may run about $0.14 per 100mcg which is a typical dose. Unless, you buy from a company that is going to gouge you on prices. So check out this place.

Recon Peptides

The Real Recon Peptides Buy USA Peptides USA SARMS USA Research chemicals

www.reconpeptides.com

Real hGH is great if you have source that can get good deals but pharma hGH will quickly send you to the poor house. Most very good UG, hGH go for about $0.90 - $2.5/iu. But then you have to have a reliable source. Peptide do have the capacity to stimulate the pituitary to pulse growth hormone. Most doctors I know that prescribe hGH only test serum levels.

https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/growth-hormone-deficiency/drugs

 

[Mastodont]

You don't have to do the stimulation test to begin with, fasted serum GH is just a regular blood test, of course you should also take igf-1, my stance is, there should be some GH seen in the morning if your body produced it during the night. @Charliebizz does not seem that e2 or the lack of is your problem then.

 

[Biobro]

Diagnosis of adult GH deficiency - PubMed

The current guidelines for the diagnosis of adult GHD are mainly based on the statements from the GH Research Society Consensus from Port Stevens in 1997. It is stated that diagnosis of adult GHD must be shown biochemically by provocative tests within the appropriate clinical context. The...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Abstract​

The current guidelines for the diagnosis of adult GHD are mainly based on the statements from the GH Research Society Consensus from Port Stevens in 1997. It is stated that diagnosis of adult GHD must be shown biochemically by provocative tests within the appropriate clinical context. The insulin tolerance test (ITT) was indicated as that of choice and severe GHD defined by a GH peak lower than 3 microg/L. The need to rely on provocative tests is based on evidence that that the measurement of IGF-I as well as of IGFBP-3 levels does not distinguish between normal and GHD subjects. Hypoglycemia may be contraindicated; thus, alternative provocative tests were considered, provided they are used with appropriate cut-off limits. Among classical provocative tests, arginine and glucagon alone were indicated as alternative tests, although less discriminatory than ITT. Testing with the combined administration of GHRH plus arginine was recommended as an alternative to ITT, mostly taking into account its marked specificity. Based on data in the literature in the last decade, the GRS Consensus Statements should be appropriately amended. Regarding the appropriate clinical context for the suspicion of adult GHD, one should evaluate patients with hypothalamic or pituitary disease or a history of cranial irradiation, as well as those with childhood-onset GHD are at obvious risk as adults for severe GHD. Brain injuries (trauma, subarachnoid hemorrage, tumours of the central nervous system) very often cause acquired hypopituitarism, including severe GHD. Given the epidemiology of brain injuries, the important role of the endocrinologist in providing major clinical benefit to brain injured patients who are still undiagnosed should be underscored. From the biochemical point of view, although normal IGF-I levels do not rule out severe GHD, very low IGF-I levels in patients highly suspected for GHD (i.e. patients with childhood-onset, severe GHD or with multiple hypopituitarism acquired in adulthood) can be considered as definitive evidence for severe GHD; thus, these patients would skip provocative tests. Patients suspected for adult GHD with normal IGF-I levels must be investigated by provocative tests. ITT remains a test of reference but it should be recognized that other tests are as reliable as ITT. Glucagon as classical test and, particularly, new maximal tests such as GHRH in combination with arginine or GH secretagogues (GHS) (i.e. GHRP-6) have well defined cut-off limits, are reproducible, able to distinguish between normal and GHD subjects. Overweight and obesity have confounding effect on the interpretation of the GH response to provocative tests. In adults cut-off levels of GH response below which severe GHD is demonstrated must be appropriate to lean, overweight and obese subjects to avoid false positive diagnosis in obese adults and false negative diagnosis in lean GHD patients. Finally, normative values of GH response to provocative tests may depend on age, particularly in the transitional age; the normative cut-off levels of GH response to ITT in this phase of life are now available.

Diagnosis of adult GH deficiency - PubMed

Based on previous consensus statements, it has been widely accepted that the diagnosis of adult growth hormone deficiency (GHD) must be shown biochemically by provocative tests of GH secretion; in fact, the measurement of IGF-I as well as of other markers was considered unable to distinguish...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Abstract​

Based on previous consensus statements, it has been widely accepted that the diagnosis of adult growth hormone deficiency (GHD) must be shown biochemically by provocative tests of GH secretion; in fact, the measurement of IGF-I as well as of other markers was considered unable to distinguish between normal and GHD subjects. The Insulin Tolerance Test (ITT) was indicated as that of choice and severe GHD defined by a GH peak lower than 3 microg/l. It is now recognized that, although normal IGF-I levels do not rule out severe GHD, very low IGF-I levels in patients highly suspected for GHD (i.e. patients with childhood-onset severe GHD or with multiple hypopituitarism acquired in adulthood) can be considered as definite evidence for severe GHD. However, patients suspected for adult GHD with normal IGF-I levels must be investigated by provocative tests. ITT remains a test of reference but it should be recognized that other tests are as reliable as ITT. Glucagon as classical test and, particularly, new maximal tests such as GHRH in combination with arginine or GH secretagogues (GHS) (i.e. GHRP-6) have well defined cut-off limits, are reproducible, able to distinguish between normal and GHD subjects. Overweight and obesity have confounding effect on the interpretation of the GH response to provocative tests. In adults cut-off levels of GH response below which severe GHD is demonstrated must be appropriate to lean, overweight and obese subjects to avoid false positive diagnosis in obese adults and false negative diagnosis in lean GHD patients.

 

[Biobro]

Diagnosis

A provocative test is necessary to document GH deficiency in most cases. Learn about our diagnosis process here.

stanfordhealthcare.org

Diagnosis of AGHD​

(Adult Growth Hormone Deficiency)​

Because GH is released in pulses, random blood measurement of GH is not a reliable indicator of GH status. In most instances, a provocative test (i.e., a stimulation test) is necessary to document GH deficiency. The insulin tolerance test (ITT), arginine test, and GH-releasing hormone (GHRH) test are some examples of commonly used stimulation tests.

These tests take approximately 2 hours and are done on an outpatient basis. Insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) is a hormone produced by the liver (and peripheral tissues) in response to circulating GH. IGF-1 is a general marker of GH status, and a low random serum IGF-1 value may reflect the presence of GHD.

 

[Charliebizz]

You don't have to do the stimulation test to begin with, fasted serum GH is just a regular blood test, of course you should also take igf-1, my stance is, there should be some GH seen in the morning if your body produced it during the night. @Charliebizz does not seem that e2 or the lack of is your problem then.

I’ve tested igf-1 in the past. That comes back over mid range. I tested igf-1 bp3 back in 2012 (I know way too long ago ) that came back in range but toward the bottom. I’ve had these symptoms since 2008 when this all started. So not really sure. I did a few months of ghrp -6 back in the day when I was with dr crisler. Didnt feel a difference.

 

[Mastodont]

I’ve tested igf-1 in the past. That comes back over mid range. I tested igf-1 bp3 back in 2012 (I know way too long ago ) that came back in range but toward the bottom. I’ve had these symptoms since 2008 when this all started. So not really sure. I did a few months of ghrp -6 back in the day when I was with dr crisler. Didnt feel a difference.

My IGF-1 was over the top, and morning GH unmeasurable, gonna try to get to some stimulation test for sure, they don't want to do it here if IGF-1 is decent, never mind the studies saying it is a poor marker, no private clinics that do them either, we shall see.
Been wondering if it's pituitary related, do GH peptides even work, i mean if you read up on them, some people report not feeling anything.

 

[Vince]

@BigTex I know this threat got kind of crazy, but any updates on your stepson?

 

[BigTex]

Yea Vince, thank you for asking. This young man came back home to live with us and was at the bottom of the pit. He was severely under weight from not eating and very depressed. He has put on a considerable amount of weight, is eating well, working out 5 days a week and is about to start his truck driving school. He seems to be very up beat about his life and has also found a girl he is spending some time with. He has done a complete 180. He is about done with the little test enanthate I gave him and I am going to give him two bottles of test cypionate 250mg/ml Saturday when it arrives along with 3 vials of HCG. He is still doing 150mg/7 days and 250iu of HCG the 5th and 6th day of his cycle. We will have him do blood work next month and make sure he is in the TRT range. I am sure the results we are seeing are not 100% from the testosterone but we do think it is the spark that created the fire. I talked to him about this suicide thing and it seems like it was for real. I sure can't understand how anyone can give up on life but once he gets insurance we are going to encourage him to get some help. I have been pretty down at times growing up too but never considered ending my own live. My worry was always someone else doing it for me. So I talked to him about what my life growing up was like. He never knew any of this. Lots of us grow up the hard way.

 

[Charliebizz]

Yea Vince, thank you for asking. This young man came back home to live with us and was at the bottom of the pit. He was severely under weight from not eating and very depressed. He has put on a considerable amount of weight, is eating well, working out 5 days a week and is about to start his truck driving school. He seems to be very up beat about his life and has also found a girl he is spending some time with. He has done a complete 180. He is about done with the little test enanthate I gave him and I am going to give him two bottles of test cypionate 250mg/ml Saturday when it arrives along with 3 vials of HCG. He is still doing 150mg/7 days and 250iu of HCG the 5th and 6th day of his cycle. We will have him do blood work next month and make sure he is in the TRT range. I am sure the results we are seeing are not 100% from the testosterone but we do think it is the spark that created the fire. I talked to him about this suicide thing and it seems like it was for real. I sure can't understand how anyone can give up on life but once he gets insurance we are going to encourage him to get some help. I have been pretty down at times growing up too but never considered ending my own live. My worry was always someone else doing it for me. So I talked to him about what my life growing up was like. He never knew any of this. Lots of us grow up the hard way.

I was gonna ask but couldn’t find the thread. Thought it got deleted. Glad things are moving in the right direction keep us posted

 

[Vince]

Yea Vince, thank you for asking. This young man came back home to live with us and was at the bottom of the pit. He was severely under weight from not eating and very depressed. He has put on a considerable amount of weight, is eating well, working out 5 days a week and is about to start his truck driving school. He seems to be very up beat about his life and has also found a girl he is spending some time with. He has done a complete 180. He is about done with the little test enanthate I gave him and I am going to give him two bottles of test cypionate 250mg/ml Saturday when it arrives along with 3 vials of HCG. He is still doing 150mg/7 days and 250iu of HCG the 5th and 6th day of his cycle. We will have him do blood work next month and make sure he is in the TRT range. I am sure the results we are seeing are not 100% from the testosterone but we do think it is the spark that created the fire. I talked to him about this suicide thing and it seems like it was for real. I sure can't understand how anyone can give up on life but once he gets insurance we are going to encourage him to get some help. I have been pretty down at times growing up too but never considered ending my own live. My worry was always someone else doing it for me. So I talked to him about what my life growing up was like. He never knew any of this. Lots of us grow up the hard way.

I wish him continue progress. Suicide is very serious. Not something to take lightly. He's fortunate to have you in his life, someone who really cared about him.

 

[BigTex]

Thak you very much Vince!

 

[Arcane]

OK, this guy is 26 years old and had to move back home with Mom and Dad to take a new road in life. He has been very depressed and my wife and I taked him into doing some blood work. He did the following:
Standard Lipid Panel - all was normal even considering he ate before he went and they used fasted norms
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel - All normal
CBC - All normal
Total Testosterone - 467
Estradiol - 24

OK, all is well but I am certainly not happy seeing a 467 total testosterone on a 26 year old, healthy male. I would like to see it closer to the 827 top end at Quest.

Started him off with 150mg of test enanthate every 7 days + 250iu of HCG on the 5th and 250iu on the 6 days beofre the dose. I taught him how to do sub-q. We will test again in 3 months but cut the lipid and CMP. and add a few more panels. I started him on enenthate because I have 20ml of 300mg/ml already available. But I am going to swith to cypionate later on.

Within 24 hours he left his room and went to the gym and over did it. Now he is so sore he can't move. Hopefully this will help some of his depression and get him more actively engaged in making positive changes in his life. We just paid for him to enter truck driving school so he will have a trade and can start making money quickly. He screwed up his college career already wanting to do his own thing. Raising kids this day and age is HARD.

A lot of Young men feel similarly as your son. Ive lost count of how many times I have heard this exact story. College simply isnt designed for men.

In my humble opinion, we need to push more young men towards tech and tech sales. 2 great high paying jobs that are in high demand.

there are so many roles in tech that can be self-taught: Programming, UX/UI Design, Project management, sales... But for some reason not many are aware of it.

 

[Simbarn]

Yea Vince, thank you for asking. This young man came back home to live with us and was at the bottom of the pit. He was severely under weight from not eating and very depressed. He has put on a considerable amount of weight, is eating well, working out 5 days a week and is about to start his truck driving school. He seems to be very up beat about his life and has also found a girl he is spending some time with. He has done a complete 180. He is about done with the little test enanthate I gave him and I am going to give him two bottles of test cypionate 250mg/ml Saturday when it arrives along with 3 vials of HCG. He is still doing 150mg/7 days and 250iu of HCG the 5th and 6th day of his cycle. We will have him do blood work next month and make sure he is in the TRT range. I am sure the results we are seeing are not 100% from the testosterone but we do think it is the spark that created the fire. I talked to him about this suicide thing and it seems like it was for real. I sure can't understand how anyone can give up on life but once he gets insurance we are going to encourage him to get some help. I have been pretty down at times growing up too but never considered ending my own live. My worry was always someone else doing it for me. So I talked to him about what my life growing up was like. He never knew any of this. Lots of us grow up the hard way.

Big Tex, I am happy to see that you son has turned a corner and is making progress. I would like to apologise for my initial post in your thread, as I did not read the entire thread, something I don’t usually do.

Getting good medical help, especially mental health care is often a class issue. Even here in Australia, where we have a relatively good health system for everyone, mental health is difficult to get if you do not have a good paying job or top insurance cover.
I have a sibling who has had severe mental health issues for many years and I understand how difficult this can be for family members, especially when it comes to possible suicide. You will try anything.
Luckily she had very good health cover and has been able to keep working.

However, in regard to your son, it may well be that testosterone could be the answer, even with medical supervision, given he has had such a good response to it thus far.

 

[tareload]

as I did not read the entire thread, something I don’t usually do

Respect! Many do not.

 

[BigTex]

Big Tex, I am happy to see that you son has turned a corner and is making progress. I would like to apologise for my initial post in your thread, as I did not read the entire thread, something I don’t usually do.

Getting good medical help, especially mental health care is often a class issue. Even here in Australia, where we have a relatively good health system for everyone, mental health is difficult to get if you do not have a good paying job or top insurance cover.
I have a sibling who has had severe mental health issues for many years and I understand how difficult this can be for family members, especially when it comes to possible suicide. You will try anything.
Luckily she had very good health cover and has been able to keep working.

However, in regard to your son, it may well be that testosterone could be the answer, even with medical supervision, given he has had such a good response to it thus far.

Appology certainly acepted. Thanks!

 

[Vince]

Any updates?

 

[BigTex]

Thanks for asking Vince. Absolutely, his T levels are in the 800's now and he is doing very well, mentally and physically. Got his CDL-A driver's license and has a job driving 18-wheelers locally making almost 6 figures/yr. Totally turned his life around. He has gone from NO motivation, no job, no money, no place to live and sever depression to being excited about life and working 10 hour work days. He loves what he is doing and gets himself up at 4am every morning to get to work. Heck, he even has his own insurance, health, eye and dental and also a 401-K for the 1st time in his life. He has also gone from looking malnourished to looking like a big healthy guy now. This is the success any parents want to see from their children.

My advice to any parent of a male in the age range is if you have a kid like ours was, get him tested and don't be afraid of the trash talkers. Its better to get these hormonal problems treated than watch them slowly crumble and eventually take their own life. Never give up. It's taken my wife and I a whole year of turning this around, mentally, physically and medically.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Thanks for asking Vince. Absolutely, his T levels are in the 800's now and he is doing very well, mentally and physically. Got his CDL-A driver's license and has a job driving 18-wheelers locally making almost 6 figures/yr. Totally turned his life around. He has gone from NO motivation, no job, no money, no place to live and sever depression to being excited about life and working 10 hour work days. He loves what he is doing and gets himself up at 4am every morning to get to work. Heck, he even has his own insurance, health, eye and dental and also a 401-K for the 1st time in his life. He has also gone from looking malnourished to looking like a big healthy guy now. This is the success any parents want to see from their children.

My advice to any parent of a male in the age range is if you have a kid like ours was, get him tested and don't be afraid of the trash talkers. Its better to get these hormonal problems treated than watch them slowly crumble and take their own life. Never give up. It's taken my wife and I a whole year of turning this around, mentally, physically and medically.

did he hop on Test?

 

[BigTex]

did he hop on Test?

Yes, quite a few months ago. 100mg/7 days, cypionate