Hi everybody.
I would like to hear from people having experience (or having knowledge) on different hcg dose frequency protocols. Basically I want to know if every day lower dose has any different outcome, better o worse, compared to every other day, every 3 days, twice weekly etc. I mean, same weekly dose but different frequencies.
My motivation is that I am looking for fertility, but I am very sensitive to estradiol, and hcg gives me plenty. So I would prefer smaller but daily doses. In other hand, I wonder if such a daily dose would impair leydig cells respond being flooded constanty at their LH receeptors...
AI Thread Overview:
This briefing document synthesizes key themes and important facts regarding HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) dosage and frequency in men, particularly concerning fertility and testicular atrophy, as discussed in the Excel Male TRT Forum.
I would like to hear from people having experience (or having knowledge) on different hcg dose frequency protocols. Basically I want to know if every day lower dose has any different outcome, better o worse, compared to every other day, every 3 days, twice weekly etc. I mean, same weekly dose but different frequencies.
My motivation is that I am looking for fertility, but I am very sensitive to estradiol, and hcg gives me plenty. So I would prefer smaller but daily doses. In other hand, I wonder if such a daily dose would impair leydig cells respond being flooded constanty at their LH receeptors...
AI Thread Overview:
Briefing Document: HCG Dose Frequency for Men - Fertility & Testicular Atrophy
Source: Excerpts from "HCG DOSE FREQUENCY FOR MEN - FERTILITY & TESTICULAR ATROPHY - Excel Male TRT Forum"This briefing document synthesizes key themes and important facts regarding HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) dosage and frequency in men, particularly concerning fertility and testicular atrophy, as discussed in the Excel Male TRT Forum.
I. Main Themes & Key Takeaways:
- HCG's Role and Mimicry of LH: HCG mimics Luteinizing Hormone (LH) but is not LH itself. It is "not picked up by the LH blood test" and, surprisingly, "suppresses LH like endogeneous testosterone does." Despite suppressing LH and even FSH, HCG has been shown to "increase sperm production and quality."
- Importance of "Higher Peaks" for Efficacy: A recurring theme is that HCG may not be effective unless "higher peaks" are reached. Several contributors, including forum founder Nelson Vergel, emphasize this point. This suggests that a constant, low-level presence may be less effective than intermittent, higher doses.
- Optimal Dosing for Efficacy (General Consensus):
- "Doses under 400 IU have been shown to likely be ineffective." (DS3)
- Many users report success with 500 IU per injection.
- One user (xcpatr922) found 300-350 IU to be "incredibly strong."
- Frequency and its Impact:
- Every Other Day (EOD) or Twice Weekly (E2D): This appears to be a commonly favored and effective frequency.
- Jucaro, the thread starter, initially considered daily lower doses due to estradiol sensitivity but, based on feedback, planned to switch to "500 IU eod instead 250 IU ed."
- Vince, a Super Moderator, has been injecting "500 IU twice a week for over 7 years now" and likes the results.
- Xcpatr922 feels testicles "pretty full for about 48-60 hours post HCG injection," suggesting "the best frequency is between this 48-72 hours."
- Daily Dosing (Lower IU): While initially considered by Jucaro for E2 sensitivity, the consensus leans against it for efficacy due to the need for "higher peaks." However, Askr reported increased morning wood by splitting HCG to "250iu 4x per week" (Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday, Sunday) rather than 500iu twice weekly on the same days as testosterone. This suggests a potential benefit for some aspects, though not directly addressing fertility in his comment.
- Once Weekly (High Dose): A paper from 1987 (cited by Jucaro) suggests "HCG (1500 IU every six days) in untreated hypogonadotropic hypogonadism" could be effective for spermatogenesis, indicating that longer intervals with higher doses might also work, though the specific dose is key.
- Estradiol (E2) Sensitivity and Management:
- HCG can significantly increase estradiol levels. Jucaro notes, "I am looking for fertility, but I am very sensitive to estradiol, and hcg gives me plenty."
- Strategies mentioned for managing E2:
- Splitting HCG doses to different days than Testosterone injections (Askr).
- Considering Anastrozol, even though "E2 from HCG is not produced through aromatization," with the expectation that it might "avoid further E2 elevation coming from testosterone" (Jucaro).
- Calcium D Glucarate: Askr reported success using "calcium d glucerate 1000mg 3x per day" which "brought my e2 from 67.7 to 42 over a 3 month period."
- HCG for Fertility and Sperm Parameters:
- HCG "can increase sperm production and quality even in the absence of LH AND FSH." (Nelson Vergel, citing a study).
- Forumjoe, using "1000 IU EOD" for HCG (alternating with Clomid every 3 months), reported significant improvement in sperm parameters: "number from 10 million to 100 million per ml and the motility, morphology and all of the other parameters are in good standing now compared to 2-3 years ago." This improvement took "about the first year or so and getting better over time."
- Comparison with Clomid:
- Forumjoe has experience with both Clomid and HCG for fertility. While sperm improved with both, he notes "I do better on HCG then clomid, my baseline libido is pretty low on both but better on HCG."
- Clomid's effects are described as "more subtle and take longer to show," while HCG is "more of roller coaster."
- Jucaro states, "My problem with clomid is that it kills my libido completely."
- HCG Monotherapy: Jucaro considered and began "HCG monotherapy" after stopping TRT, indicating it can be a viable option for some, at least initially.
II. Most Important Ideas or Facts:
- HCG's Efficacy Requires "Higher Peaks": "Unless you reach higher peaks, hCG may not work." (Nelson Vergel) This is fundamental to dosage and frequency considerations.
- Minimum Effective Dose: "Doses under 400 IU have been shown to likely be ineffective." (DS3). Many successful protocols involve 500 IU per injection.
- Effective Frequencies: Dosing every other day (EOD) or twice weekly (E2W) with 500 IU per injection appears to be a common and effective approach for many users for testicular health and fertility.
- Sperm Improvement with HCG: HCG can drastically improve sperm count and other parameters, even in cases of low initial counts (e.g., "10 million to 100 million per ml"). This improvement can take a year or more.
- HCG's Impact on Estradiol: HCG is known to increase E2, necessitating awareness and potential management strategies like dose splitting or the use of aromatase inhibitors/supplements.
- HCG vs. Clomid for Libido: Clomid can negatively impact libido for some users, whereas HCG may be better in this regard.
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