Questions about HCG, Arimidex, and Their Effects

[DixieWrecked]

I have been reading this forum obsessively for the last few weeks. What an incredible group of guys you all are.

I have only been on TRT for about 3 months so I am figuring things out. At 2 months my bloodwork looked good and I decided to add HCG because the doc recommended it. So I have been on T+HCG for about 2 weeks. I felt like my E2 was getting higher (ED & low libido, not alpha feeling, round face) so I popped .125 of Arimidex. I felt good for about 8 hours and then I quickly sank into anxiety, body aches, trouble breathing, low mood. I even bailed on my workout early. I literally was worried for my health and considered bailing on TRT in general. I woke up this morning (48 hours since dose) and I am feeling almost good. I am currently dosing the T+HCG twice a week. Total weekly dosage is 180mg + 1000iu.

Questions:

Will dosing more frequently hypothetically decrease E2 even with HCG being involved?

Has anyone experienced such drastic side effects from Arimidex?

 

[Blackhawk]

Questions:

Will dosing more frequently hypothetically decrease E2 even with HCG being involved?

It can, but the effect varies between different men

Has anyone experienced such drastic side effects from Arimidex?

Yes, some do not tolerate Anastrozole well, and some react adversely to that size dose. Seems too, there have been some anxiety reactions that may not be physiologically related to the drug.

My main questions are:

-Are you taking anastrozole because of symptoms? because of lab numbers?

-Have you had the correct estradiol blood test: sensitive estradiol LC/MS/MS?

-Are you taking HCG because of symptoms or for an unexplained reason?

-You say numbers look good, but what are they actually? If you have been reading the forum, you should know we can give better feedback with complete lab results including ranges.

 

[Vince Carter]

.125mg of Anastrozole is not likely to make someone's E crash or even a reduction in Estrogen lead to those feelings that you had. This is much more likely to be psychosomatic or placebo effect.

Note @Blackhawk excellent questions he laid out and post replies. I'll add that it's extremely difficult for a guy even the really experienced of us to play E by feel or because we feel this or that at any given point in the day. Most of the guys that play things this way end up with a thread just like this...just sayin.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Blackhawk

Taking because of symptoms of high E2 which which I mentioned in the original post. Labs 2 weeks prior to HCG were this
TT: 950
FT: 25
Sensitive E2: 22
SHBG: 36

I do not have labs since adding in the HCG 2 weeks ago.

Taking the HCG because the doc recommended it and because my TRT honeymoon phase had faded. Perhaps I'm chasing the dragon.

 

[Vince Carter]

Many of us either don't tolerate HCG, notice that that's when the problems started(?), or it seems HCG gives us no tangible benefit. This could be you, too. Too, 1000iu while not uncommon can be a lot, you could try halving that, or splitting it up even more, even consider 100iu EOD or some thing like that.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Many of us either don't tolerate HCG, notice that that's when the problems started(?), or it seems HCG gives us no tangible benefit. This could be you, too. Too, 1000iu while not uncommon can be a lot, you could try halving that, or splitting it up even more, even consider 100iu EOD or some thing like that.

Oh yeah. I hear ya. You could be dead on. Still want to make sure the original question is out there about the Arimidex side effects in case anyone has had a similar experience.

I've read that as well that HCG is not always tolerated. However, I have yet to grasp exactly what that means. Some say it increases estrogen. Is there other means by which it is not tolerated?

 

[Vince Carter]

If it's not tolerated it would or should be Estrogen derived as being the problem, that's the feeling of most guys that report HCG makes the feel bad (whatever "bad" symptomatically means to them).

Ill stick with it that's not an Anastrozole thing, you simply didn't take enough and in just one dose to explain your feelings other than that.
Simple to try and take the Arimidex @ .125mg again and see how your respond.

Do you suffer with any anxiety type things,...diagnosed, or not?

 

[Blackhawk]

Blackhawk

Taking because of symptoms of high E2 which which I mentioned in the original post. Labs 2 weeks prior to HCG were this
TT: 950
FT: 25
Sensitive E2: 22
SHBG: 36

I do not have labs since adding in the HCG 2 weeks ago.

Taking the HCG because the doc recommended it and because my TRT honeymoon phase had faded. Perhaps I'm chasing the dragon.

If you took anastrozole with E2 of 22, you may indeed be experiencing low E2 sides. With your SHBG mid range at 36, that E2 number is in good range, could stand even to be a bit higher. What we don;t know is whether the HCG raised it significantly enough to create high E2 symptoms. Seems pretty unlikely.

With a caveat: Based on my own personal experience, I also believe that changing levels of hormones can cause unwanted symptoms, so sometimes waiting it out, you may find a better outcome after your body has more time to adapt: i.e. if HCG raised your E2, it may be the movement, not the end point that caused you symptoms. As such, be careful about yo-yo-ing on dosages, and beware changing more than one thing at a time since you likely will not know then what caused unwanted symptoms.

 

[M.J]

from what I read a round here HCG if it did increase E it would be in the beginning only, then it will go down.
I take 500iu EOD, no effect on Estrogen or T :/, but seems like it keep them running almost 15 days on trt now with minimum shrinkage.

 

[Vince Carter]

from what I read a round here HCG if it did increase E it would be in the beginning only, then it will go down.
I take 500iu EOD, no effect on Estrogen or T :/, but seems like it keep them running almost 15 days on trt now with minimum shrinkage.

You didn't read that on this forum, and, there would be no shrinkage in 15 days.

 

[M.J]

You didn't read that on this forum, and, there would be no shrinkage in 15 days.

:/ I already have a bit of shrinkage, will monitor after 15 days.

 

[DixieWrecked]

If you took anastrozole with E2 of 22, you may indeed be experiencing low E2 sides. With your SHBG mid range at 36, that E2 number is in good range, could stand even to be a bit higher. What we don;t know is whether the HCG raised it significantly enough to create high E2 symptoms. Seems pretty unlikely.

With a caveat: Based on my own personal experience, I also believe that changing levels of hormones can cause unwanted symptoms, so sometimes waiting it out, you may find a better outcome after your body has more time to adapt: i.e. if HCG raised your E2, it may be the movement, not the end point that caused you symptoms. As such, be careful about yo-yo-ing on dosages, and beware changing more than one thing at a time since you likely will not know then what caused unwanted symptoms.

Thanks for the input. Appreciate your experience. Its difficult to be patient when I don't feel good but obviously hastiness will cause more issues. Slow and steady.

 

[Blackhawk]

Thanks for the input. Appreciate your experience. Its difficult to be patient when I don't feel good but obviously hastiness will cause more issues. Slow and steady.

Well, let's just say hastiness can cause issues. YMMV.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Let the protocol work. It takes a few weeks. Water retention eventually gets better in most men. Do not assume things are due to estradiol. You may have this problem like many others who made assumptions and started anastrozole without first getting blood work:

crashed estradiol excelmale.com site:www.excelmale.com - Google Search

Also read this since many guys on here keep making the same mistake you are making:

Does HCG promote excessive aromatization while on TRT?

 

[DixieWrecked]

Nelson,

I read both the links. Thanks you for those. I'm going to be patient.

I actually got a blood draw through discountedlabs on Monday so it will be very interesting to see the results. I took the anastrozole directly after the lab. Either way I am going to give the protocol two months or so to level out and get blood drawn again.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I warn guys to have patience during the first month at least. The placebo and the nocivo effects are strongest then.

 

[Mr S]

I have been reading this forum obsessively for the last few weeks. What an incredible group of guys you all are.

I have only been on TRT for about 3 months so I am figuring things out. At 2 months my bloodwork looked good and I decided to add HCG because the doc recommended it. So I have been on T+HCG for about 2 weeks. I felt like my E2 was getting higher (ED & low libido, not alpha feeling, round face) so I popped .125 of Arimidex. I felt good for about 8 hours and then I quickly sank into anxiety, body aches, trouble breathing, low mood. I even bailed on my workout early. I literally was worried for my health and considered bailing on TRT in general. I woke up this morning (48 hours since dose) and I am feeling almost good. I am currently dosing the T+HCG twice a week. Total weekly dosage is 180mg + 1000iu.

Questions:

Will dosing more frequently hypothetically decrease E2 even with HCG being involved?

Has anyone experienced such drastic side effects from Arimidex?

I inject 500iu EOD of Pregnyl brand HCG. I’ve been on this protocol 5 weeks so far and I like the HCG. It has agreed with me. However, I inject 100mg cypionate once a week. Before HCG I was injecting 140 mg once a week and my trough was at 700 seven days later (the day of my next injection). So far so good.

 

[DixieWrecked]

I got my results back today. As I suspected my E2 was elevated. I'm not surprised by this. I am a creature of habit and have a very structured life. So I am very in tune with how I feel. Anyway here are my results from Monday. Range for E2 is 8 - 35.

With HCG
TT: 1021
FT: 24
Sensitive E2: 54

Without
TT: 950
FT: 25
Sensitive E2: 22

This is at the trough. My E2 must be sky high at peak. Any new recommendations?

 

[Vince Carter]

Id cut back on the HCG like I said above some where 500 twice per week while that's a common dose I'd split that in half for 500iu total and see how that works out for you, without the AI. You should try dose adjustments etc before the AI comes in to play.

 

[jmzwy]

I would say, from my own experience, it's the HCG. I wrote a couple posts a few months back commenting that I did get benefits from taking HCG(libido, energy, etc), but after my first month on trt, like clockwork at the 8-hour mark post injection I would become extremely irritable, angry, anxious... basically PMS-y. I was on 500 iu 2x a week. I also retain water something fierce on HCG. I went off it for awhile. Water retention and bloating disappeared within days... I'm not kidding when I say I dropped 10 pounds in 10 days with no other changes. Irritability and anxiety gone as well. I stayed off for about 6 weeks. But I started missing some of those benefits from HCG, so went back at 200 every other day. Did this for a month. Still had some of the water retention and bloating but not as bad. The anxiety/irritability issues also subsided largely..... but it seems like after just a month on the 200 iu every other day all the same side effects reared their ugly head full force. It seems I just cannot tolerate this stuff after about a month's use. I'm off it again.

I'm considering maybe doing HCG 1 week every month.... or perhaps for a month with 2 months off.... if I go back to it at all. And the only time I ever used an AI, or felt I needed an AI, was with the HCG. And the AI, even at 'micro-dosing' of .125 mg once or twice a week, gave me side effects (fatigue mainly, headache to a lesser extent). So basically, if I find difficulty with intermittent use of HCG (one week a month or one month every 3 months); I'm done with it forever. Not worth having the side effects and basically the need for another med (AI), which just leads to additional side effects.