what T level do you feel best at?

[Gman86]

He was calling you out for liking my post.

Haha oh. I’ve come to terms with the fact that no matter what anyone says. Madman will always be....well....mad lol.

 

[antelopers]

Haha oh. I’ve come to terms with the fact that no matter what anyone says. Madman will always be....well....mad lol.

I love madman's posts lol I just don't agree with him in this instance.

 

[Gman86]

I love madman's posts lol I just don't agree with him in this instance.

Same. And ya his posts are very detailed and informative. His approach is a little rough around the edges lol, but hey, we’re all different. No judgment here.

 

[DragonBits]

I don't know who Danny bossa is.

What I'm saying is this:

-guy comes on forum, says he has low free T based on calculated method
-we recommend raising his free T, symptoms resolved

Ok, cool, the calculation may not accurately represent whatever the "true" free T number is, but it's easy to use the calculation to determine that higher t will help.

The problem with Tru t in the context it's being used:

-guy comes on forum, says he has low free T based on calculated method
-we recommend raising his free T
-someone shows up in thread with the Tru t calculator and says "NO, you're over the range"
-guy might not raise his t and resolve symptoms now

The Trut range is 16-31, while labcorp has 6.6-18,1 as the range for free T by assay.

I don't know how they determined the Trut range. Most of the time, my FT and Trut T are in the same ballpark, meaning low or high FT will also be low or high Trut.

As far as @ncsugrad, he only said he had issues, not what there were.

His FT by assay was 39, also over range, his TT was 1500, likely much higher since that is the top unless you order the more expensive lc/ms/ms test which it doesn't seem likely he did order. His concern was that the "calculated" method was lower, but it depends on accurate TT, as does Trut. And once you start to get supraphysiological levels of T, many assumptions like calculated levels go out the window.

It could be his "issues" has to do with too HIGH total T/FT. Maybe if he gave his protocol it would be more obvious or maybe if he said what his "issues" were it would help.

 

[antelopers]

The Trut range is 16-31, while labcorp has 6.6-18,1 as the range for free T by assay.

I don't know how they determined the Trut range. Most of the time, my FT and Trut T are in the same ballpark, meaning low or high FT will also be low or high Trut.

As far as @ncsugrad, he only said he had issues, not what there were.

His FT by assay was 39, also over range, his TT was 1500, likely much higher since that is the top unless you order the more expensive lc/ms/ms test which it doesn't seem likely he did order. His concern was that the "calculated" method was lower, but it depends on accurate TT, as does Trut. And once you start to get supraphysiological levels of T, many assumptions like calculated levels go out the window.

It could be his "issues" has to do with too HIGH total T/FT. Maybe if he gave his protocol it would be more obvious or maybe if he said what his "issues" were it would help.

Labcorps changes by age and goes as high as 26.5.

And my references were to using Tru t in general, not nitpicking this one case. You are correct that there are numerous factors that could be affecting how this individual feels.

The calculated method might be an inaccurate calculation, but it's based on accurate tests of total T, shbg, and albumin. So while the calculation might not give the same number as Tru t, it's a consistent and reliable enough number that the benchmark has been set and adjustments can easily be made based on it.

-700 total t, 35 shbg, and 4.3 albumin for our imaginary subject
- His 15 free T on the standard. He doesn't feel better until he gets to 25, let's say.
-In Tru t, he's up to 23.87. Much higher, in the top end of the range.

-Now we boost his t to 1100. That's 26 on the standard.
-Suddenly he's at 39 on Tru t and is well over range.

What did we accomplish with this? Absolutely nothing. He's on the lower end with the calculated method, and most guys don't feel good being at the lower end of that range. If we compare his Tru t to the calculated, he goes from low end of the range to near the top. Raise him to the level he feels good, tru t says supraphysiological.

It's complicating things for absolutely no reason. We have to change the meaning of high and low now. The ratio of total t to shbg and albumin don't change. That's what matters.

 

[bochinit]

Can anyone tell how much total testosterone equals as a result of administering 100mg of testosterone/week to have a baseline reference?

 

[madman]

That wasn’t me that wrote that lol

You liked the post.....so you AGREED with what the idiot stated NO!

 

[Charliebizz]

You liked the post.....so you what the idiot stated NO![/

well the profile name fits the man lol.

 

[Charliebizz]

I’m on that group with Danny bossa just for the entertainment. But those guys are out of there minds. They are all pretty much on ***** and labeling it “hot” hormone optimization therapy. What a crock of shit. Makes us poor men who just looking to feel normal look bad.

 

[madman]

Labcorps changes by age and goes as high as 26.5.

And my references were to using Tru t in general, not nitpicking this one case. You are correct that there are numerous factors that could be affecting how this individual feels.

The calculated method might be an inaccurate calculation, but it's based on accurate tests of total T, shbg, and albumin. So while the calculation might not give the same number as Tru t, it's a consistent and reliable enough number that the benchmark has been set and adjustments can easily be made based on it.

-700 total t, 35 shbg, and 4.3 albumin for our imaginary subject
- His 15 free T on the standard. He doesn't feel better until he gets to 25, let's say.
-In Tru t, he's up to 23.87. Much higher, in the top end of the range.

-Now we boost his t to 1100. That's 26 on the standard.
-Suddenly he's at 39 on Tru t and is well over range.

What did we accomplish with this? Absolutely nothing. He's on the lower end with the calculated method, and most guys don't feel good being at the lower end of that range. If we compare his Tru t to the calculated, he goes from low end of the range to near the top. Raise him to the level he feels good, tru t says supraphysiological.

It's complicating things for absolutely no reason. We have to change the meaning of high and low now. The ratio of total t to shbg and albumin don't change. That's what matters.

Why TruT™?
The only FDA-registered free testosterone calculator

Commonly available free testosterone calculators (issam.ch, nebido.com, pctag.uk) use models of testosterone:SHBG binding (proposed by Vermeulen et al. and Sodergard et. al) which were developed before the crystal structure for SHBG:T complexes were available. These models assume that the two SHBG monomers behave identically in binding testosterone. Detailed experimental data show that the "simplified linear model is erroneous."



Recently, Endocrine Society’s Expert Panel acknowledged the experimental problems in fT measurements and concluded that "...the calculation of free testosterone is the most useful estimate of free testosterone in plasma..." However, we have demonstrated that even the calculated fT values derived from the prevailing equations, based on linear law-of-mass action models or empiric equations, differ systematically from free testosterone measured by equilibrium dialysis by as much as 40%.





No one should be dishing out any advice regarding ones FT unless they had it tested using the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.....END OF STORY!

TruT is the only calculated method which agrees with results obtained by the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis.

- direct immunoassay does not

- linear law-of-mass action calculated methods do not



@Gman86.....as I have stated numerous times before.....the doctor you idolize uses the most accurate testing method the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis when testing blood work in his patients!

Not the piss poor direct immunoassay and not the calculated Vermuelen method!

 

[madman]

Labcorps changes by age and goes as high as 26.5.

And my references were to using Tru t in general, not nitpicking this one case. You are correct that there are numerous factors that could be affecting how this individual feels.

The calculated method might be an inaccurate calculation, but it's based on accurate tests of total T, shbg, and albumin. So while the calculation might not give the same number as Tru t, it's a consistent and reliable enough number that the benchmark has been set and adjustments can easily be made based on it.

-700 total t, 35 shbg, and 4.3 albumin for our imaginary subject
- His 15 free T on the standard. He doesn't feel better until he gets to 25, let's say.
-In Tru t, he's up to 23.87. Much higher, in the top end of the range.

-Now we boost his t to 1100. That's 26 on the standard.
-Suddenly he's at 39 on Tru t and is well over range.

What did we accomplish with this? Absolutely nothing. He's on the lower end with the calculated method, and most guys don't feel good being at the lower end of that range. If we compare his Tru t to the calculated, he goes from low end of the range to near the top. Raise him to the level he feels good, tru t says supraphysiological.

It's complicating things for absolutely no reason. We have to change the meaning of high and low now. The ratio of total t to shbg and albumin don't change. That's what matters.

*However, we have demonstrated that even the calculated fT values derived from the prevailing equations, based on linear law-of-mass action models or empiric equations, differ systematically from free testosterone measured by equilibrium dialysis by as much as 40%.



Your ignorant.....again if you doubt the accuracy/validity of the TruT calculated method.....than at least have some sense in your head and recommend one have their FT tested using the most ACCURATE methods.....Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration!

Not the piss poor direct immunoassay let alone the outdated and highly flawed linear law-of-mass action Vemuelen calculated which has been shown to "differ systematically from free testosterone measured by equilibrium dialysis by as much as 40%"

 

[antelopers]

I've explained the issue with this clearly, I'm not repeating myself again, I stand by what I say and haven't seen anything presented to me that's convincing me otherwise. Also there's no need to call people names on here when we are trying to have a discussion. You obviously feel personally attacked and that's sad. have a good day.