what T level do you feel best at?

[Paddy]

I was wondering what Testosterone level you guys feel best at? Free and total. My first couple of years on TRT I felt amazing with a total T around 1000 and free T at 33. My last couple of blood test have been around 875 for TT and 21 for total T, E2 was 17. I did have a few pimples here and there at the higher level but felt stronger and more virile also. Also, Ive been at the same dose of T of 140mg/week.
thanks
p

 

[mooseman109]

I need my free T to be low to mid 20"s to feel my best

 

[Paddy]

thanks!

 

[Vince]

Total T, 1000. That's what I feel best at.

 

[ncsugrad]

Total T, 1000. That's what I feel best at.

What’s your free T at at that level of total T?

 

[Vince]

What’s your free T at at that level of total T?

Testosterone, Serum 1165 Reference Range: 264-916 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(Direct) 30.0 Reference Range: 6.6-18.1 pg/mL
Estradiol, Sensitive 24.2 Reference Range: 8.0-35.0 pg/mL
SHBG 55.0 Reference Range: 19.3-76.4 nmol/L
Hematocrit 48.1 Reference Range: 37.5-51.0 %
DHEA-Sulfate 365.6 Reference Range: 48.9-344.2 ug/dL
Albumin 4.2 Reference Range: 3.6-4.8 g/dL

calculated TruT method:40.19 ng/dL (over the top end of the reference range of 16-31 ng/dL).

 

[ncsugrad]

Testosterone, Serum 1165 Reference Range: 264-916 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(Direct) 30.0 Reference Range: 6.6-18.1 pg/mL
Estradiol, Sensitive 24.2 Reference Range: 8.0-35.0 pg/mL
SHBG 55.0 Reference Range: 19.3-76.4 nmol/L
Hematocrit 48.1 Reference Range: 37.5-51.0 %
DHEA-Sulfate 365.6 Reference Range: 48.9-344.2 ug/dL
Albumin 4.2 Reference Range: 3.6-4.8 g/dL

calculated TruT method:40.19 ng/dL (over the top end of the reference range of 16-31 ng/dL).

It’s interesting how different our results are in a way. Same dose but I’m at

1500 TT
39 FT
73 E2
90 SHBG (was 150!)
Last tome I calculated my free T it put it much lower so I’ve been wondering which is more accurate lately as I’m still having issues.

 

[madman]

It’s interesting how different our results are in a way. Same dose but I’m at

1500 TT
39 FT
73 E2
90 SHBG (was 150!)
Last tome I calculated my free T it put it much lower so I’ve been wondering which is more accurate lately as I’m still having issues.

TruT Free Testosterone Calculator by FPT


Even with a very high SHBG of 90 nmol/L your FT 47.72 ng/dL (well over the top of the reference range 16-31 ng/dL) is very high due to your really high TT.

 

[antelopers]

TruT Free Testosterone Calculator by FPT


Even with a very high SHBG of 90 nmol/L your FT 47.72 ng/dL (well over the top of the reference range 16-31 ng/dL) is very high due to your really high TT.
View attachment 8627

I really think we need to stop using the truT calculator here, at least for now. When having free T discussions about symptom resolution, we are judging everything based off of the older (though less accurate) test numbers and reference range.

He is showing up at ~19 on a standard calculator - with these numbers puts his somewhere in the middle of the range but with ~1.3% free. We aim for, generally speaking, 2%+ using the standard calculated method. Plugging it into truT and saying "actually you're at 47, you're way above range" doesn't mean his symptoms magically resolve.

We can't assume the truT range is the same as calculated free T, and even if it is, all that means is that we were wrong about what number and percentage of free T guys feel good at.

It may be closer to the direct free T measurement, but truT in my opinion, while very interesting, isn't exactly helpful at the moment. There needs to be a brand new reference range using the truT method before we start using it to dismiss low free T on the traditional test.

Classically when discussing free T we use the crude but relatively consistent calculated method for determining what 2%+ is for symptom resolution for most men, so we can't just plug in a different calculator for free T and expect all other variables not to shift with it.

It's very interesting, but just doesn't seem to be contributing much to the free T discussion or diagnosis.

 

[Vince]

It’s interesting how different our results are in a way. Same dose but I’m at

1500 TT
39 FT
73 E2
90 SHBG (was 150!)
Last tome I calculated my free T it put it much lower so I’ve been wondering which is more accurate lately as I’m still having issues.

At least for me, using both methods, my free T is still well over range.

 

[broker]

So you guys feel best at levels the majority of men in the world dont come close to achieveing naturally?
Thats a major reason guys have a tough time giving up steroids, they love the feeling of abnormally high hormone levels. I can certainly understand why some men want high dosages of testosterone.
I do wonder what the long term affects/ consequences of constantly hitting yourself with very high levels of testosterone your body wouldnt produce naturally.

 

[antelopers]

So you guys feel best at levels the majority of men in the world dont come close to achieveing naturally?
Thats a major reason guys have a tough time giving up steroids, they love the feeling of abnormally high hormone levels. I can certainly understand why some men want high dosages of testosterone.

Some guys don't feel symptom relief until they reach a higher level than the average man. This could be due to a number of factors like individual androgen sensitivity.

 

[DragonBits]

It’s interesting how different our results are in a way. Same dose but I’m at

1500 TT
39 FT
73 E2
90 SHBG (was 150!)
Last tome I calculated my free T it put it much lower so I’ve been wondering which is more accurate lately as I’m still having issues.

Whenever someone reports a TT of 1500, I wonder is it actually higher?

The standard total T test cannot measure testosterone levels greater than 1500, so did you get the more expensive LC/MS/MS test? Did you also measure E2 sensitive, c-reactive protein?

 

[madman]

I really think we need to stop using the truT calculator here, at least for now. When having free T discussions about symptom resolution, we are judging everything based off of the older (though less accurate) test numbers and reference range.

He is showing up at ~19 on a standard calculator - with these numbers puts his somewhere in the middle of the range but with ~1.3% free. We aim for, generally speaking, 2%+ using the standard calculated method. Plugging it into truT and saying "actually you're at 47, you're way above range" doesn't mean his symptoms magically resolve.

We can't assume the truT range is the same as calculated free T, and even if it is, all that means is that we were wrong about what number and percentage of free T guys feel good at.

It may be closer to the direct free T measurement, but truT in my opinion, while very interesting, isn't exactly helpful at the moment. There needs to be a brand new reference range using the truT method before we start using it to dismiss low free T on the traditional test.

There needs to be a brand new reference range using the truT method before we start using it to dismiss low free T on the traditional test.
It's very interesting, but just doesn't seem to be contributing much to the free T discussion or diagnosis.

really think we need to stop using the truT calculator here, at least for now.


What is it you are not understanding here?

The direct immunoassays are inaccurate.....period!

The linear law-of-mass action models such as the commonly used Vermuelen calculated method is outdated and highly flawed due to the newer research/understanding of SHBG:T binding.

Again the only way to know where your FT level truly sits is to use the most accurate testing method such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best) or use the newer calculated TruT method which has been shown to be on par with results obtained by the gold standard ED.

If you want to rely on using piss poor testing methods so be it!


Plugging it into truT and saying "actually you're at 47, you're way above range" doesn't mean his symptoms magically resolve.

His FT level is very high period!

Not low/normal.....mid-normal or high.....very high!

Who stated ones symptoms would magically resolve?

Seeing as he never had his FT tested using an accurate testing method.....he has no clue where his FT level sits.....and he was just shown using the TruT calculator.

If you want to ignore the fact that his FT is high when calculated using the TruT than get back to me when he has it retested using the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.....BET it will come back high!


There needs to be a brand new reference range using the truT method before we start using it to dismiss low free T on the traditional test.

Traditional tests whether the most commonly used piss poor direct immunoassay or the outdated and flawed Vermuelen calculated are inaccurate.....period!

Again if you doubt the TruT calculated method.....than use the proper testing methods you know the most accurate ones I stated earlier.....ED or Ultrafiltration!

TRADITIONAL TESTING as you state is a waste of time.....unless you have low standards and accept the fact that they are inaccurate.


Classically when discussing free T we use the crude but relatively consistent calculated method for determining what 2%+ is for symptom resolution for most men, so we can't just plug in a different calculator for free T and expect all other variables not to shift with it.

It's flawed for f*** sakes.....until you grasp the significance of the newer research/understanding SHBG:T binding than you can continue pissing against the wall!

 

[madman]

I really think we need to stop using the truT calculator here, at least for now. When having free T discussions about symptom resolution, we are judging everything based off of the older (though less accurate) test numbers and reference range.

He is showing up at ~19 on a standard calculator - with these numbers puts his somewhere in the middle of the range but with ~1.3% free. We aim for, generally speaking, 2%+ using the standard calculated method. Plugging it into truT and saying "actually you're at 47, you're way above range" doesn't mean his symptoms magically resolve.

We can't assume the truT range is the same as calculated free T, and even if it is, all that means is that we were wrong about what number and percentage of free T guys feel good at.

It may be closer to the direct free T measurement, but truT in my opinion, while very interesting, isn't exactly helpful at the moment. There needs to be a brand new reference range using the truT method before we start using it to dismiss low free T on the traditional test.

Classically when discussing free T we use the crude but relatively consistent calculated method for determining what 2%+ is for symptom resolution for most men, so we can't just plug in a different calculator for free T and expect all other variables not to shift with it.

It's very interesting, but just doesn't seem to be contributing much to the free T discussion or diagnosis.

@Gman86.....you should know better.....still caught up on the bull****!

 

[antelopers]

really think we need to stop using the truT calculator here, at least for now.


What is it you are not understanding here?

The direct immunoassays are inaccurate.....period!

The linear law-of-mass action models such as the commonly used Vermuelen calculated method is outdated and highly flawed due to the newer research/understanding of SHBG:T binding.

Again the only way to know where your FT level truly sits is to use the most accurate testing method such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best) or use the newer calculated TruT method which has been shown to be on par with results obtained by the gold standard ED.

If you want to rely on using piss poor testing methods so be it!


Plugging it into truT and saying "actually you're at 47, you're way above range" doesn't mean his symptoms magically resolve.

His FT level is very high period!

Not low/normal.....mid-normal or high.....very high!

Who stated ones symptoms would magically resolve?

Seeing as he never had his FT tested using an accurate testing method.....he has no clue where his FT level sits.....and he was just shown using the TruT calculator.

If you want to ignore the fact that his FT is high when calculated using the TruT than get back to me when he has it retested using the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.....BET it will come back high!


There needs to be a brand new reference range using the truT method before we start using it to dismiss low free T on the traditional test.

Traditional tests whether the most commonly used piss poor direct immunoassay or the outdated and flawed Vermuelen calculated are inaccurate.....period!

Again if you doubt the TruT calculated method.....than use the proper testing methods you know the most accurate ones I stated earlier.....ED or Ultrafiltration!

TRADITIONAL TESTING as you state is a waste of time.....unless you have low standards and accept the fact that they are inaccurate.


Classically when discussing free T we use the crude but relatively consistent calculated method for determining what 2%+ is for symptom resolution for most men, so we can't just plug in a different calculator for free T and expect all other variables not to shift with it.

It's flawed for f*** sakes.....until you grasp the significance of the newer research/understanding SHBG:T binding than you can continue pissing against the wall!

I'm not arguing that Tru t isnt more accurate for determining a number. But you seem to not be understanding that you're basing "high free T" from Tru t calculations off of the "flawed" standard calculation ranges. The ranges need to be adjusted for Tru t. Until they are, the final number you get from Tru t measurement isn't really relevant.

 

[antelopers]

What are you even saying? Let me guess: You are part of the redicilous Danny Bossa group filled with low IQ idiots who dont even understand SHBG?

I don't know who Danny bossa is.

What I'm saying is this:

-guy comes on forum, says he has low free T based on calculated method
-we recommend raising his free T, symptoms resolved

Ok, cool, the calculation may not accurately represent whatever the "true" free T number is, but it's easy to use the calculation to determine that higher t will help.

The problem with Tru t in the context it's being used:

-guy comes on forum, says he has low free T based on calculated method
-we recommend raising his free T
-someone shows up in thread with the Tru t calculator and says "NO, you're over the range"
-guy might not raise his t and resolve symptoms now

The "range" for Tru t is based off of the standard reference range. Tru t numbers based off of the standard range tells you absolutely nothing.

So what if the number on Tru t is 40ng instead of 20? It offers absolutely nothing helpful without a proper reference range to go along with it.

 

[Gman86]

@Gman86.....you should know better.....still caught up on the bull****!

That wasn’t me that wrote that lol

 

[antelopers]

That wasn’t me that wrote that lol

He was calling you out for liking my post.

 

[Gman86]

What are you even saying? Let me guess: You are part of the redicilous Danny Bossa group filled with low IQ idiots who dont even understand SHBG?

Danny just had Edward Lichten on, and they discuss SHBG in depth. I’m not even half way through and it’s pretty great info.

just curious, what don’t they understand about SHBG over on his channel and fb group?