Switching to cream from injections

[Gman86]

16mg/D Cyp (Ive been using Enanthate the last two weeks).
--I base my dose off my trough Free T and nothing else. This puts my trough at the
lab range but not over.
200iu HCG once per week
12.5mg Exemestane EOD ( aromatase A LOT and this is what it takes to control it)
no DHEA
no Preg

Notice any differences on enanthate?

 

[Vince Carter]

Nope, other than my wallet it's been very transparent from Cyp, which is cheaper. $90 for 5mL of Enanthate thru Defy/Empower, as opposed to $68 for Cyp 5mL.
That's my subjective thought on if I feel better, or worse, no labs to back it up. I had a weird lab test coming off Cyp and 3 days in to Enanthate that had my TT/FT were abnormally, exhorbitantly high, enough that I chalked it up to lab error.

 

[Tommy Wall]

Maybe this is out the context but when I used gel I was flushing red and was always hot eventhogh it wasn´t. Horrible really! I notice the very same if I try to inject more that 50mg x 2 week. I don´t it is E2 related it might the be the testo itself in combo with higher DHT. To many colds that way brrr..

 

[OMI100]

I am about to start daily scrotum application very soon. Sometimes next week. I am a low SHBG guy, sometimes single digits. I don't know what dose to start with, I'm thinking 150mg/ml (3 clicks) .

I did a little test.... I was using 2 clicks (100mg) and was upper end of range. Then did 2 clicks scrotal and was waaaaaaaaaaay over range..... May just be me? If you go the 3 clicks you may need to run a ck a week out to see impact. If I had went to 3 clicks no telling where I would have been. It also spiked my E2. based on my one set of labs I would think at 3 clicks my E2 would be all the way to the moon.... Not good.

 

[eli]

I did a little test.... I was using 2 clicks (100mg) and was upper end of range. Then did 2 clicks scrotal and was waaaaaaaaaaay over range..... May just be me? If you go the 3 clicks you may need to run a ck a week out to see impact. If I had went to 3 clicks no telling where I would have been. It also spiked my E2. based on my one set of labs I would think at 3 clicks my E2 would be all the way to the moon.... Not good.

I'm all about how I feel, if I feel good and other numbers like psa, hematocrit aren't going too nutz then I wouldn't care much

 

[djpreef]

SHBG is 14. I’ve been on EOD injections of 40mg and .125 mg Anastrozole. Also take 500IU HCG every 4 days. Been on this for over a year.

Labs have been pretty steady at 750 Test and 25-30 E2.

I’m just not feeling any benefit from the TRT. I’ve heard that cream gives the most stable levels so thought it might help.

I had a similar reaction to TRT. Felt nominally better, but not fantastic, and no libido, despite fantastic numbers. AI, no AI, HCG, no HCG. I finally decided to try something I'd seen, and took the money I was spending on AI and HCG and put it towards liquid tadalafil. My wife and I are very happy now.

Not saying it's the answer, but if you keep struggling and don't fine one, maybe it's worth considering. Good luck!

 

[Gman86]

I had a similar reaction to TRT. Felt nominally better, but not fantastic, and no libido, despite fantastic numbers. AI, no AI, HCG, no HCG. I finally decided to try something I'd seen, and took the money I was spending on AI and HCG and put it towards liquid tadalafil. My wife and I are very happy now.

Not saying it's the answer, but if you keep struggling and don't fine one, maybe it's worth considering. Good luck!

Sounds like it definitely helped with erections, but what about libido, does it help with that, or is libido still low?

 

[Tman]

Anyone had any luck switching from injections to cream? My low SHBG has made it very difficult to get dialed in with injections. Wondering if switching to a daily cream might benefit me. Thanks!

I switched from creams to injections because of the fluctuations. I know you are going the other way, and I hope you find relief. As a fellow low SHBG guy, lower dose injections are probably your best bet with a focus on free T numbers and estrogen management.

What was cream like... My base is 160ish...verified by bloodwork...

2 hours after dosing= 1200 T red face, flush
12 hours after dosing= 400 high blood pressure and just didn't feel right
24 hours after dosing= 180 and back to normal low T

I could not benefit from any of the process due to the side effects, and I could not manage my T with an AI because in the wide swing in my variations.

Back to the injections: Anything over 22 mg EOD in one dose causes side effect swings for me. At that dose, I still need an AI (I've given up on not using an AI due to extreme side effects, so the anti AI crowd--just save it). Because my body is so reactive and clears quickly, .125 draws me down to quickly and lets my estrogen spike back up.
What works for me, I empty about 1/2 to 3/4 of the compounded AI out of the capsule and take it about every 3 days. (bloating, blood pressure up, clogged head, allergy symptoms, ears ringing= take 1/3 to 1/2 of .125/ clogged head, allergy symptoms- 1/3/ watery eyes only- take 1/4. This keeps me in a somewhat decent zone, but I don't feel like I am on testosterone. I continue to take T because of the health benefits not the feeling of T that some express.

Hopefully something will connect with you and your journey will take less time than mine. It's taken me almost a year to find a new normal.

 

[Systemlord]

Sure it's nice to not require the use of an AI, but you won't find an anti-AI crown here, it definitely has its place in TRT.

I'm an extreme over-responder to AI's, I have to wet the tip of a toothpick and crush aromasin into powder form and consume whatever sticks.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

I was on daily injections AND daily cream applied to the scrotum and the addition of the cream made a world of difference. It (scrotal application of cream) is the only way to blast up your DHT to improve libido.

I used the past tense because I _was_ low SHBG. By fixing my thyroid, my SHBG went from 15-16 to 23-24.

Still on injections and cream, but the injections are now TIW instead of daily.

 

[djpreef]

Sounds like it definitely helped with erections, but what about libido, does it help with that, or is libido still low?

To be honest, erections were never the problem (I never technically would have said I had ED), I just wasn't motivated. Libido was the problem. I don't know anything about how Tadalafil works other than it raises nitric oxide, but I have a theory. My suspicion is that at least 50% of libido is having a unit that's running at the ready all the time, so that the slightest thought, etc., is enough to wake it up. At least that's how it seems for me. We assume the libido drives the erections, but I'm beginning to think it's kind of the other way around, at least somewhat. The whole reason I tried Tadalafil was that I'd read others saying that it helped, even guys without ED.

Before the Tadalafil, I was interested about once every other week. That's on TRT with good numbers. Not cool. Now, (I'm 54) I could go back to my 20s-30s preference of once or twice a day if my wife could keep up.

Hope that makes any sense. I know what I'm thinking but it's kind of hard to express properly.

 

[Gman86]

To be honest, erections were never the problem (I never technically would have said I had ED), I just wasn't motivated. Libido was the problem. I don't know anything about how Tadalafil works other than it raises nitric oxide, but I have a theory. My suspicion is that at least 50% of libido is having a unit that's running at the ready all the time, so that the slightest thought, etc., is enough to wake it up. At least that's how it seems for me. We assume the libido drives the erections, but I'm beginning to think it's kind of the other way around, at least somewhat. The whole reason I tried Tadalafil was that I'd read others saying that it helped, even guys without ED.

Before the Tadalafil, I was interested about once every other week. That's on TRT with good numbers. Not cool. Now, (I'm 54) I could go back to my 20s-30s preference of once or twice a day if my wife could keep up.

Hope that makes any sense. I know what I'm thinking but it's kind of hard to express properly.

No I get it. It’s an interesting theory. Something I never thought about before. But might have some validity to it. Because I thought things like cialis were just for ED, I never thought about it’s role in regards to libido. But if things like tadalafil have no mechanism that’s supposed to increase libido, then I would imagine you theory might be accurate.

 

[djpreef]

No I get it. It’s an interesting theory. Something I never thought about before. But might have some validity to it. Because I thought things like cialis were just for ED, I never thought about it’s role in regards to libido. But if things like tadalafil have no mechanism that’s supposed to increase libido, then I would imagine you theory might be accurate.

I should add that TRT caused me a significant lack of sensitivity issue (unless the timing is coincidental) and the Tadalafil has helped some with that as well. Not completely, but enough to make it work out ok.

 

[Gianluca]

Transdermals pose a problem for low SHBG guys. I have SHBG of 16. I started out TRT with T gel applied daily. When I had blood tests 12 hours after applying the gel my Total T level would be around 800. However when I running blood tests 22 hours after applying the gel my Total T would drop to 180.

The late Dr. Crisler said that this was because the T absorbed via the skin goes very quickly to the bloodstream with low SHBG guys like me it's flushed quickly via the urine. He recommended me to switch to bi weekly SUBQ injections, stating the the T is absorbed slower via the SUBQ tissue. I've been doing that for 2 years now and this protocol enabled me to sustain steady and healthy levels of T.

thanks for the info, I'm a low SHBG as well, and I have been thinking about the cream making a perfect delivery method for us, I have switched to SubQ a few months ago, I seem to absorb less Test this way, two injections of 70mg brought me to TT 500 and FT 13, I now do 3 injections of .27ml, so total of 160mg,

 

[Gianluca]

I was on daily injections AND daily cream applied to the scrotum and the addition of the cream made a world of difference. It (scrotal application of cream) is the only way to blast up your DHT to improve libido.

I used the past tense because I _was_ low SHBG. By fixing my thyroid, my SHBG went from 15-16 to 23-24.

Still on injections and cream, but the injections are now TIW instead of daily.

Jason, I did the same, low SHBG as well here, I worked on Thyroid and my SHBG went from 12 to 23, did that have an impact for your TRT? do you inject IM or SubQ? thanks

 

[Systemlord]

thanks for the info, I'm a low SHBG as well, and I have been thinking about the cream making a perfect delivery method for us, I have switched to SubQ a few months ago, I seem to absorb less Test this way, two injections of 70mg brought me to TT 500 and FT 13, I now do 3 injections of .27ml, so total of 160mg,

A member on another forum who also has low SHBG (15) and recently went on the 200mg/20% T cream and almost gave up on it applying it twice daily. He struck gold when applying it all in the morning only, one large application and his E2 is 21 and Total T 700's.

Imagine a low SHBG guy doing better on a single daily application...

I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about the T cream.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Jason, I did the same, low SHBG as well here, I worked on Thyroid and my SHBG went from 12 to 23, did that have an impact for your TRT? do you inject IM or SubQ? thanks

Yes, T3 is one of the very few things that will increase SHBG. With it, I lowered my RT3, raised my SHBG from 16 to 24, and I have been injecting now just 3 times a week instead of every day. I apply a 5% cream every morning before I leave for work too. Thyroid, thyroid, thyroid. It makes as big of a difference in your life as TRT.

 

[Gman86]

Yes, T3 is one of the very few things that will increase SHBG. With it, I lowered my RT3, raised my SHBG from 16 to 24, and I have been injecting now just 3 times a week instead of every day. I apply a 5% cream every morning before I leave for work too. Thyroid, thyroid, thyroid. It makes as big of a difference in your life as TRT.

This is something I’ve learned recently. Thyroid is arguably even more important. Wish I would learned and focused on it from the beginning.

 

[Gianluca]

Yes, T3 is one of the very few things that will increase SHBG. With it, I lowered my RT3, raised my SHBG from 16 to 24, and I have been injecting now just 3 times a week instead of every day. I apply a 5% cream every morning before I leave for work too. Thyroid, thyroid, thyroid. It makes as big of a difference in your life as TRT.

Very nice, Might be a thing that Low SHBG is a marker for lower Thyroid activity?

 

[ccnowick]

I was on daily injections AND daily cream applied to the scrotum and the addition of the cream made a world of difference. It (scrotal application of cream) is the only way to blast up your DHT to improve libido.

I used the past tense because I _was_ low SHBG. By fixing my thyroid, my SHBG went from 15-16 to 23-24.

Still on injections and cream, but the injections are now TIW instead of daily.

Are you on Cyp? How many milligrams per week and what cream and what is the T percentage of the cream you use? I’m thinking about modifying my own regimen one or two more times and if there is no libido improvement adding in the cream. Thanks