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Gman86

Member
Men with low serum estradiol levels have low tissue, estradiol levels, because what you measure in the serum is actually spill over from the tissues where it is made. When you lower body fat, you also lower estradiol. So when you take anabolic steroids, have any kind, you're going to have an increase in lean muscle mass and decrease in fat mass, which will decrease estradiol. But what happens when you take that aromatase inhibitor or lower your estradiol is that it increases your visceral body fat. That's why bodybuilders die from the inside out it is from the aromatase inhibition. Bodybuilders have low estradiol levels, cause they have not much adipose tissue subcutaneously, which therefore will not convert a lot of the testosterone to estradiol that you're measuring in the serum. That's where most of it comes from from the peripheral aromatization and more specifically the adipose tissue. But look man what you're talking about when it comes to the anabolic steroids have absolutely nothing and I mean nothing to do with what I do. It has no place in testosterone therapy or hormone replacement therapy at all. Your questions do not relate to people that are on hormone replacement therapy or testosterone therapy. You're a proper to the problem not the solution. What I mean by that is anabolic steroid use, and the use of all these mixtures of anabolic substances has zero to do with hormone replacement therapy in normal men and women. It is where all of the misinformation comes from as well.
In healthy men , serum levels of E2 reflect the total E2 that has diffused into the blood from all tissues having been synthesized by aromatase and escaped local tissue metabolism. These blood levels, no matter how accurately measured, are an indirect reflection of estrogen at the tissue level
Is proviron not simply straight DHT? How is that any different than the DHT used in the studies ur referencing?

testosterone and nandrolone are both anabolic steroids, but they’re used and talked about, in regards to HRT. How is primobolan any different than an AAS that’s commonly used in HRT?

u have no answer because the fact that a DHT derivative like primobolan lowers E2 in the serum, and masteron and Proviron inhibit estrogen on a tissue/ cell level, destroys ur theory that DHT has no estrogen inhibiting effects, whether it’s at the aromatase level, or at the tissue/ cell/ receptor level. Ur stuck on one theory, and won’t even open ur mind to the possibility that DHT can affect estrogen in other ways. I would say people that are close minded and stuck on one theory about how something works is the actual problem in this community. I do like ur ideas and thoughts and opinions on the majority of things tho, so I do appreciate and enjoy ur posts. But I’m just not sure if DHT has zero affects on estrogen, and it would be nice if u were more open to brainstorming about whether it does or not, rather than being stuck on studies done on males that aren’t on exogenous androgens. That’s not this community, and it doesn’t really apply to guys on HRT. So for u to extrapolate a theory from studies done on natural males, and apply it to males on exogenous testosterone, and be so confident about this theory, seems very short sighted and lacking critical thinking skills, imo
 
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Charliebizz

Well-Known Member
Is proviron not simply straight DHT? How is that any different than the DHT used in the studies ur referencing?

testosterone and nandrolone are both anabolic steroids, but they’re used and talked about, in regards to HRT. How is primobolan any different than an AAS that’s commonly used in HRT?

u have no answer because the fact that a DHT derivative like primobolan lowers E2 in the serum, and masteron and Proviron inhibit estrogen on a tissue/ cell level, destroys ur theory that DHT has no estrogen inhibiting effects, whether it’s at the aromatase level, or at the tissue/ cell/ receptor level. Ur stuck on one theory, and won’t even open ur mind to the possibility that DHT can affect estrogen in other ways. I would say people that are close minded and stuck on one theory about how something works is the actual problem in this community. I do like ur ideas and thoughts and opinions on the majority of things tho, so I do appreciate and enjoy ur posts. But I’m just not sure if DHT has zero affects on estrogen, and it would be nice if u were more open to brainstorming about whether it does or not, rather than being stuck on studies done on males that aren’t on exogenous androgens. That’s not this community, and it doesn’t really apply to guys on HRT. So for u to extrapolate a theory from studies done on natural males, and apply it to males on exogenous testosterone, and be so confident about this theory, seems very short sighted and lacking critical thinking skills, imo
You’re missing his point. he’s saying dht from dht derivatives has an estrogen lowering effect from lowering t production. It’s not the same as the conversion Of t to dht in a man on testosterone only.
 

Charliebizz

Well-Known Member
Is proviron not simply straight DHT? How is that any different than the DHT used in the studies ur referencing?

testosterone and nandrolone are both anabolic steroids, but they’re used and talked about, in regards to HRT. How is primobolan any different than an AAS that’s commonly used in HRT?

u have no answer because the fact that a DHT derivative like primobolan lowers E2 in the serum, and masteron and Proviron inhibit estrogen on a tissue/ cell level, destroys ur theory that DHT has no estrogen inhibiting effects, whether it’s at the aromatase level, or at the tissue/ cell/ receptor level. Ur stuck on one theory, and won’t even open ur mind to the possibility that DHT can affect estrogen in other ways. I would say people that are close minded and stuck on one theory about how something works is the actual problem in this community. I do like ur ideas and thoughts and opinions on the majority of things tho, so I do appreciate and enjoy ur posts. But I’m just not sure if DHT has zero affects on estrogen, and it would be nice if u were more open to brainstorming about whether it does or not, rather than being stuck on studies done on males that aren’t on exogenous androgens. That’s not this community, and it doesn’t really apply to guys on HRT. So for u to extrapolate a theory from studies done on natural males, and apply it to males on exogenous testosterone, and be so confident about this theory, seems very short sighted and lacking critical thinking skills, imo
With the exception of people with extreme medical conditions I have to agree with @RobRoy. These other compounds Have no place in trt.

my question to you is What is the end game in using dht derivatives? when you can simply use the right amount of testosterone to get all the dht you need ?
 

Gman86

Member
You’re missing his point. he’s saying dht from dht derivatives has an estrogen lowering effect from lowering t production. It’s not the same as the conversion Of t to dht in a man on testosterone only.
This just isn’t true man. While natural, yes, a DHT derivative will shut down ur HPTA, thus drastically lowering test levels, and consequently lowering E2, since there’s less test to convert into E2.

When on exogenous test, we’re already shut down, and are test levels are based mostly on the amount of exogenous test we’re taking in. A DHT derivative can not lower test levels via hpta shut down in a guy on TRT. We’re already shut down lol. Thing like primo are directly lowering E2. It’s not lowering E2 via lowering testosterone levels. And especially not lowering E2 via lowering test level through hpta shut down. Just want him to explain why certain DHT derivatives have E2 inhibiting properties, independent of shutting down a man’s hpta
 

Gman86

Member
With the exception of people with extreme medical conditions I have to agree with @RobRoy. These other compounds Have no place in trt.

my question to you is What is the end game in using dht derivatives? when you can simply use the right amount of testosterone to get all the dht you need ?
Come on man, u’ve been in the game to know that not everyone can get by on just test alone. Most I think can tho. But if guys bodies on TRT aren’t producing enough testosterone, what makes u think that they’re all gonna still be perfect at producing enough of every other hormone other than test? Some people have more or less aromatase enzymes, some people have more or less 5ar enzymes, we’ve all seen some guys that disproportionally produce too much prolactin, compared to their test and E2 levels, some people have different receptor sensitivity levels, etc. again, u think that when a guy needs to go on trt that not producing enough test is always going to be his only sex hormone related issue? Not the case with everyone, unfortunately.

so some guys are going to need to manage E2 and prolactin, independent of simply increasing or decreasing their test dosage. I’m personally not one of them, I don’t think. I personally use primo to keep my E2 and prolactin down, while using super physiological dosages of test and nandrolone. But for guys that simply have trouble dialing in their E2 and prolactin, on physiological dosages of test, I would prefer to use primo, over an ai, any day. Why is primobolan bad in ur eyes? It’s probably the 2nd AAS, behind test, as far as its negative effects on health go. I personally haven’t seen anything that even indicates that it’s unhealthier than testosterone, when used in dosages of 100mg/ week or less. And that’s more than enough to manage E2 and prolactin levels. A guy posted his labwork recently that showed his E2 go from 68 to 30 just from 50mg/ week of primo added to his protocol

guys also use low dose primo, and other DHT derivatives, to improve things like energy, libido, sexual function (erections/ sensitivity) and well being
 
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Gman86

Member
To not use all the tools at our disposal, while on HRT, doesn’t make sense to me. Why would we voluntarily limit ourselves? Should peptides not be part of an optimization protocol? Should people not use supplements? I don’t understand why using other AAS should be villainized, but adding anything that isn’t an AAS is totally fine. Just doesn’t make sense to me. Just seems very short sighted and judgmental and naive and close minded, imo

kind of like someone saying alcohol and marijuana is fine to use, but Molly should never be used by anyone. Most recreational drugs have positives and negatives to them, and things that they can add to someone’s life, in the right context and circumstance. It’s the same with different AAS
 

RobRoy

Active Member
To not use all the tools at our disposal, while on HRT, doesn’t make sense to me. Why would we voluntarily limit ourselves? Should peptides not be part of an optimization protocol? Should people not use supplements? I don’t understand why using other AAS should be villainized, but adding anything that isn’t an AAS is totally fine. Just doesn’t make sense to me. Just seems very short sighted and judgmental and naive and close minded, imo

kind of like someone saying alcohol and marijuana is fine to use, but Molly should never be used by anyone. Most recreational drugs have positives and negatives to them, and things that they can add to someone’s life, in the right context and circumstance. It’s the same with different AAS
It has nothing to do with health when you take anabolic steroids. You have made the decision to sacrifice health for increased strength and size. It's hard enough to get men and women, the hormones that they naturally make them selves without having to fight against the pushback we get from our colleagues and media because of people like you and your attitude toward anabolic steroids. Alcohol is legal. Marijuana is legal in some states, but it causes a lot of harm and certainly doesn't help a man's testosterone level.
You are typical of the problems that we all have to fight against. Hormone replacement therapy is about bio identical hormones and restoring those to healthy levels to attain the health benefit that they provide us. We are reversing the age related decline to maintain the health span. It's about health and prevention of age, related disease, disability, dependence, and frailty. Nothing natural at all about anabolic steroids.
You guys are absolutely ridiculous. You always want to rationalize why they want to use anabolic steroids (and drugs) and say it's something about health when it's not at all. Ridiculous. You're making it harder for everyone else to give the men and women the help that they need. And by the way, testosterone is not an anabolic steroid. It's a hormone that has anabolic properties, but the anabolic steroids come from hormones such as testosterone and DHT. They are synthetic derivatives of testosterone and DHT. Anabolic steroids are also illegal in the United States by the way, and you wanna know what? the clinics that are prescribing them presently are all be investigated by the DEA, and all of them are going to be shut down even a good clinics because of the bad ones. It's going to be an end to everyone ultimately, just like the pill mills were with regard to pain management. So it won't be long before all hormone clinics will be shut down, good and bad, because of exactly what you are trying to rationalize as being a legitimate need. There are legitimate FDA indications for prescribing anabolic steroids and I'll guarantee you don't meet any of them
Shortsighted? That would be you, my friend. Looking for an easy way instead of the good old-fashioned sweat and hard work. And here you are trying to rationalize your actions
You are part of the problem not the solution maybe one day when you grow up you will see differently.
 
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Gman86

Member
It has nothing to do with health when you take anabolic steroids. You have made the decision to sacrifice health for increased strength and size. It's hard enough to get men and women, the hormones that they naturally make them selves without having to fight against the pushback we get from our colleagues and media because of people like you and your attitude toward anabolic steroids. Alcohol is legal. Marijuana is legal in some states, but it causes a lot of harm and certainly doesn't help a man's testosterone level.
You are typical of the problems that we all have to fight against. Hormone replacement therapy is about bio identical hormones and restoring those to healthy levels to attain the health benefit that they provide us. We are reversing the age related decline to maintain the health span. It's about health and prevention of age, related disease, disability, dependence, and frailty. Nothing natural at all about anabolic steroids.
You guys are absolutely ridiculous. You always want to rationalize why they want to use anabolic steroids (and drugs) and say it's something about health when it's not at all. Ridiculous. You're making it harder for everyone else to give the men and women the help that they need. And by the way, testosterone is not an anabolic steroid. It's a hormone that has anabolic properties, but the anabolic steroids come from hormones such as testosterone and DHT. They are synthetic derivatives of testosterone and DHT. Anabolic steroids are also illegal in the United States by the way, and you wanna know what? the clinics that are prescribing them presently are all be investigated by the DEA, and all of them are going to be shut down even a good clinics because of the bad ones. It's going to be an end to everyone ultimately, just like the pill mills were with regard to pain management. So it won't be long before all hormone clinics will be shut down, good and bad, because of exactly what you are trying to rationalize as being a legitimate need. There are legitimate FDA indications for prescribing anabolic steroids and I'll guarantee you don't meet any of them
Shortsighted? That would be you, my friend. Looking for an easy way instead of the good old-fashioned sweat and hard work. And here you are trying to rationalize your actions
You are part of the problem not the solution maybe one day when you grow up you will see differently.
I still haven’t heard u admit that ur theory on DHT and E2 inhibition is most likely incorrect. But it’s all good. I don’t expect u to admit anything u could potentially be wrong about. U don’t come off as someone that’s ego is small enough to do that

and judge how u will. My actions don’t affect others on this board, just like someone eating Doritos next to me isn’t going to influence me to eat doritos. Everyone here is adults, and capable of making their own decisions, and nobody is copying and pasting what someone else is doing, especially not when they’re doing things like I do. U need to give adults on this board more credit

and I never said I use nandrolone and primobolan to improve my health. Those are ur words, not mine
 

Charliebizz

Well-Known Member
To not use all the tools at our disposal, while on HRT, doesn’t make sense to me. Why would we voluntarily limit ourselves? Should peptides not be part of an optimization protocol? Should people not use supplements? I don’t understand why using other AAS should be villainized, but adding anything that isn’t an AAS is totally fine. Just doesn’t make sense to me. Just seems very short sighted and judgmental and naive and close minded, imo

kind of like someone saying alcohol and marijuana is fine to use, but Molly should never be used by anyone. Most recreational drugs have positives and negatives to them, and things that they can add to someone’s life, in the right context and circumstance. It’s the same with different AAS
Sorry G. I have to disagree with you on this one. shit Most of men on trt that I know personally don’t even know what dht or prolactin is. And even Smaller number of drs that would even prescribe those compounds. And even those said drs advise you to cycle said compounds.

We are all entitled to our opinions. but I just don’t see how playing with all these compounds to try and play god and mess with some made Up ratio pushed by internet bros is “optimizing“ your hrt protocol.
 

Charliebizz

Well-Known Member
I still haven’t heard u admit that ur theory on DHT and E2 inhibition is most likely incorrect. But it’s all good. I don’t expect u to admit anything u could potentially be wrong about. U don’t come off as someone that’s ego is small enough to do that

and judge how u will. My actions don’t affect others on this board, just like someone eating Doritos next to me isn’t going to influence me to eat doritos. Everyone here is adults, and capable of making their own decisions, and nobody is copying and pasting what someone else is doing, especially not when they’re doing things like I do. U need to give adults on this board more credit

and I never said I use nandrolone and primobolan to improve my health. Those are ur words, not mine
You would be surprised how influential these forums are even on the most intelligent men. People get desperate when they do not feel well. And I would imagine almost everyone on this very forum has tried something another member swore by so maybe they could feel well.

im sure you didn’t just wake up one day and say hey why don’t I try primo so maybe I get better erections lol. Again I’m not judging you but your postings could lead to many men trying some of the shit you have tried.
 

Gman86

Member
Sorry G. I have to disagree with you on this one. shit Most of men on trt that I know personally don’t even know what dht or prolactin is. And even Smaller number of drs that would even prescribe those compounds. And even those said drs advise you to cycle said compounds.

We are all entitled to our opinions. but I just don’t see how playing with all these compounds to try and play god and mess with some made Up ratio pushed by internet bros is “optimizing“ your hrt protocol.
No ur honestly right, for the most part. I do think the very high majority of guys that need TRT can do great on just test alone. I guess I’m referring to the small majority of outliers. And then guys like me that just simply push the limits and also want to optimize mood and sexual function in any which way that they can lol. But for the most part, I honest to god agree with u. Not just saying that
 

Gman86

Member
You would be surprised how influential these forums are even on the most intelligent men. People get desperate when they do not feel well. And I would imagine almost everyone on this very forum has tried something another member swore by so maybe they could feel well.

im sure you didn’t just wake up one day and say hey why don’t I try primo so maybe I get better erections lol. Again I’m not judging you but your postings could lead to many men trying some of the shit you have tried.
Ya good points. I do honestly try my best to express what my personal HRT goals are, and how they contribute to achieving my overall personal goals in life. And that these goals are just that. My personal goals. Everyone has a balance in their life that makes them the happiest. And that balance is going to usually be drastically different for everyone. It’s rare that people value the same things in life, in the same ratios. Some people highly value health over looking good, some people highly value enjoying life over eating well, some people value being strong and looking good over health, etc. I personally am all about balance, so I just want the best balance of feeling good, looking good, optimizing my health, increasing longevity, improving how I treat others, recovering well, having great sexual function, etc., that makes me the happiest. That balance is going to again be drastically different for everyone.

So I always try to make it clear that nobody should do what I’m doing, and that I know I’m sacrificing my health, to a degree, to enjoy my life as much as I can while I’m here. I don’t recommend others do the same, but at the same time, I don’t think guys that want a little boost at the gym, and with their physiques, should be shunned and ridiculed like they’re doing something extremely wrong. And I have no problem standing up for guys like that, no matter how much judgement and hate comes my way for it.

One of the reasons I talk about the things I do, is to show people how important managing lifestyle factors are, in regards to not only ur health, but also in regards to how ur going to react to a protocol. No matter how simple or complex, or low dose or high dose the protocol might be. I like to show people that my health markers look better than most guys do using very minimal dosages, while I’m using superphysiological dosages. I want to show guys that TRT is just one piece of the puzzle, and what matters the most is ur diet, managing stress, optimizing sleep, exercising regularly, and that if I can still maintain great health on the dosages and compounds I use, that it should be a cake walk for any guy using physiological dosages. And I’m always here to teach guys how to eat properly, if they want to know more. And teach guys how to optimize sleep and minimize stress, if they want to learn more. Exercising regularly is pretty self explanatory. Not much to it but to do it lol.
 

Cataceous

Super Moderator
...All IN VITRO CELL STUDIES!!!!!...

Evidence from in vitro studies is more convincing than no evidence, particularly in supporting general underlying principles. The direct interaction of DHT with aromatase and the estrogen receptor is basic biophysics, not overly subject to cross-species variation.

So why don't you spend your time continuing to abstract surf which is the lowest of low and at least spend the time studying up on humans. You can leave all the in vitro animal studies alone. Focus on giving humans DHT or giving humans testosterone which raises DHT. What happens when we get transdermal or injectable testosterone? We raise the DHT. But wait a minute if we do that wouldn't that block the estrogen receptor or aromatase activity and therefore men's estradiol shouldn't be going up? But the estradiol does go up whenever we give testosterone the matter what method of delivery. When they give transdermal DHT and raise levels even above 700 or more it doesn't bind to the estrogen receptor or shut down aromatase activity? NO! It actually shuts down testosterone and shuts down estradiol due to the negative feedback on the hypothalamic pituitary axis.

You mischaracterize what was said. This is about the relative activity of androgens and estrogens in men on TRT. While higher doses of testosterone do lead to higher levels of estradiol, the incremental increases can be attenuated with higher levels of DHT. At the same time, the estradiol is less effective when there's greater DHT interference at receptors. An additional mechanism is possible, in that work shows that "... DHT antagonism of estrogen ... appears to occur by decreasing estrogen-induced RNA transcription at a point subsequent to estrogen receptor binding." The sky's-the-limit crowd demonstrates the principle involved; symptoms of elevated estrogen are supposed to be addressed by raising the testosterone dose until resolution. Then there's the not-insignificant matter of the successful treatment of breast cancer with DHT and its derivatives, strongly contradicting the assertion that "serum levels do not have any physiological effect."

...
You still don't get it because you really don't have any education in research or medicine.
...
A super moderator of super misinformation. ...

My places of education discouraged puerile ad hominem attacks as a means of persuasion. Yours?
 

Fortunate

Well-Known Member
If your free testosterone is optimal, which I doubt that it actually is, then you need to be looking at thyroid. That's the real problem. Everybody wants to attribute everything to testosterone and then when it's not going right for them, blame it on estradiol. You do realize that most of the fatigue that a lot of men attribute to testosterone is actually their thyroid. It's one of the most common things that I see is that men thinking that their testosterone is not working, because it didn't improve their fatigue because their fatigue was actually their thyroid needed to be optimized. It's not estradiol. Let me repeat. It is not estradiol. In fact, from a personal standpoint, when my testosterone was fully optimal. I still had persistent significant fatigue, especially early afternoon that lasted for several hours, making it difficult to even work and stay awake. It was thyroid. The symptoms of suboptimal thyroid are not any different than suboptimal testosterone symptoms. They look the same and most areas that's why men need both of them optimized in many instances. It's not estradiol I will assure you of that. From from an observational standpoint, then that would mean that every woman that we know that's pre-menopausal, would have quite severe fatigue for two weeks out of every month because for two weeks their estrogen is low and the other two weeks it is high. What were your thyroid levels specifically your free T3 level during one of these episodes? What was it? Why did you just measure your estradiol? What is the mechanism behind low estradiol causing fatigue? It's your thyroid until proven, otherwise. Another mechanism that a lot of men miss is, they have undiagnosed and untreated, sleep apnea. But it's never estradiol causing the symptoms that you were describing. You can blame it on it all day long but that's not what it is.
I for sure considered this. Most recent TSH is normal. In past, rT3 was a bit elevated and my ratio was not ideal.

Would consider checking again.

Now for the grenade….. I took Accutane and finished a 6 month course shortly before the fatigue started…..
 

Charliebizz

Well-Known Member
I for sure considered this. Most recent TSH is normal. In past, rT3 was a bit elevated and my ratio was not ideal.

Would consider checking again.

Now for the grenade….. I took Accutane and finished a 6 month course shortly before the fatigue started…..
So you recently took accutane ?
 

Jerajera

Active Member
When you give DHT or primo it will suppress testosterone production and estrogen comes from testosterone because it is one of its active metabolites. So when you give DHT and suppress testosterone by 90% you are going to suppress the production of estradiol along with it. What is there not to understand about that?

This is correct, but men on TRT or more taking Primo or pure DHT will also see E2 drop on lab results, it's not only through the mechanism you pointed out.

It's incredible to me that you can on the one hand emphasize (correctly) how ridiculously complex this field is, and at the same time believe with absolute certainty nobody could ever know more than you do about any aspect of it, unless they're a doctor as well of course.

You have consistently displayed perhaps the furthest thing from a scientific mindset I've ever seen. Your level of dogmatism comes close to that of conspiracy theorists and your arrogance is completely disproportionate to your raw intelligence and even knowledge.

I would take @Cataceous to absolutely wreck you on any psychometric test, as well as understanding of biology. Let's not even talk about statistics and mathematics - essential to understand research papers - because then we're literally laughing out loud.

Your dogmatism will eventually hurt your own patients' health, and I would bet already has in some ways.
 

Fortunate

Well-Known Member
All of the above is why I personally prefer to research personal anecdotes and labs, over studies. Most studies, especially ones that have to do with males and sex hormones, are either flawed or corrupt, or both. It’s unfortunately not common for a study done on hormones and males to cover all its bases, and leave zero need for the people conducting the study to extrapolate results to come to their final conclusions. Imo, a little common sense, critical thinking skills, personal anecdotes and labwork can go a long way when learning about hormones and the male body. And these are the ways I personally prefer to learn. But I do fully appreciate guys that are more study based, with their research, and then share their knowledge with the rest of us. Unfortunately, I do think there’s possibly more cons, than pros, with studies done in any other animal other than a human, when considering how certain things affect the human body, and a high risk for misinformation to be spread

So what are ur thoughts on how DHT derivatives affect estrogen? Let’s take primobolan, for example. Primo 100% lowers E2, and lowers it quite effectively, in most men. This we know for a fact. So ur saying that straight DHT has no estrogen inhibiting properties, but certain DHT derivatives do?

and then we also have to take into consideration DHT derivatives like masteron and proviron, that inhibit estrogen‘s effects, but will not lower E2 on a blood test. As far as I know, proviron is basically straight DHT. And then I’ve heard that masteron is basically the injectable version of Proviron.

So is there a chance that straight DHT doesn’t lower E2 on a blood test, but still can lessen the effects of estrogen within the person‘s body, similar to how masteron and Proviron do?
With all due respect, this is a dangerous approach to science.
 

Fortunate

Well-Known Member
You would be surprised how influential these forums are even on the most intelligent men. People get desperate when they do not feel well. And I would imagine almost everyone on this very forum has tried something another member swore by so maybe they could feel well.

im sure you didn’t just wake up one day and say hey why don’t I try primo so maybe I get better erections lol. Again I’m not judging you but your postings could lead to many men trying some of the shit you have tried.
Very well said, @Charliebizz.
 

Gman86

Member
With all due respect, this is a dangerous approach to science.
No offense taken man. Not here to be a scientist lol. Here to just learn how to be as happy as possible, and help others be as happy as possible any way that I can. I personally would rather let people smarter than me go over studies, and then learn from them and their opinions on the studies that are relevant to what I’m trying to learn more about. I just personally don’t enjoy going over studies myself. I’ll read them from time to time, but I’m more of an anecdote/ real life results/ labs, personal experience type guy. I‘d much rather spend my time going over personal anecdotes, and what has worked and not worked for others, and why, and see what works and doesn’t work for me personally, and why. Everyone on this board brings something different to the table. That’s the beauty of it, imo. I’m definitely not the guy to go to if u want studies cited. But if u want someone that’s tried many different protocols, and frequent labs to go along with all those different protocols, I’m ur guy lol
 
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