NORMAL E2 AFTER 10 WEEKS OF HCG BUT BREAST PAIN?

[keithc2485]

SOOO, I added HCG to my TRT the end of may 2019;.. the first 4 weeks was 500iu a week .....i wasnst sure how my body was going to react ....

so i jumped it up to 800iu the last 2 weeks of the first 6 weeks of it before my first Labs to check E2 and hema

it was fine... so I jumped it up to 800iu a week for the last 8 weeks straight - I started getting pressure and pain in my nipples and tendernesss in my breast area . I thought my e2 was up for sure....

Lots of gus on here had said since I DONT CARE to FATHER children and IM only using HCG for ATROPHY to just to 250iu 2x a week which was my Original dose ...

So I had my Labs done this past tuesday got them back today and my E2 IS FINE..??? since tuesday i did drip the hcg back down to 250iu 2x a week ... and the pain went away ...

Im trying not to take an AI if i dont need one and it dont look like i do as of now ...

but anybody know why i was experiencing pain in the breast and nipples if my E2 is normal ...???
any feedback would be great -

PS - these labs were not done on a correct day for a testosterone reading so the T is super high bc it was only day 2 after injection .. so its not normally that high .. this was to focus on the E2 an hema

 

[Systemlord]

Your testosterone panel is excellent, but I've heard men getting gyno with normal estrogen after starting TRT. I've also heard HCG can directly cause breast tissue growth. You need to try to find the lowest effective dosage.

Presence of Luteinizing Hormone/Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Receptors in Male Breast Tissues

Although the function of these receptors remains to be determined, the findings suggest the possibility that LH and hCG may play a role in the pathogenesis of male breast disorders.

 

[Gman86]

Possibly increased prolactin or progesterone. I’m guessing prolactin though. If you look up symptoms of high prolactin you’ll see all the symptoms you described.

 

[xqfq]

Possibly increased prolactin or progesterone. I’m guessing prolactin though. If you look up symptoms of high prolactin you’ll see all the symptoms you described.

I haven't done all the research yet, but I think it's unlikely that progesterone in the normal male range would cause breast growth; in fact, it may help stop estrogen from causing gyno!

Progesterone itself isn't responsible for the majority of breast growth - estrogen is. Girls going through puberty first experience an increase of estrogen -- without (!) progesterone -- and then experience an increase in progesterone once the breast can support ductal development.

If progesterone was present at first (in numbers higher than estrogen) it could stop estrogen from growing the breasts. At least that's what I'm learning:

I'm not sure of what the level of progesterone is to create this ductal development, but I suspect it is very, very high relative to the male range. Note that almost all men will have much more progesterone than estrogen.

---

RE: keithc2485's question - I am not sure why HCG causes gyno symptoms with normal E2 levels in some men but I have read stories of it in this forum and others. If I was forced to guess, one idea I had is:

HCG may increase DHEA in some men. DHEA has a metabolite, Androstenediol, which acts as an estrogen (activates the estrogen receptor), while itself not "being" E2. So maybe this plays a role[1].

-----
1. From Wikipedia, "It has approximately 6% and 17% of the affinity of estradiol at the ERα and ERβ, respectively. Although androstenediol has far lower affinity for the ERs compared to the major estrogen estradiol, it circulates at approximately 100-fold higher concentrations, and so is thought may play a significant role as an estrogen in the body." (Androstenediol - Wikipedia)

 

[Gman86]

I haven't done all the research yet, but I think it's unlikely that progesterone in the normal male range would cause breast growth; in fact, it may help stop estrogen from causing gyno!

Progesterone itself isn't responsible for the majority of breast growth - estrogen is. Girls going through puberty first experience an increase of estrogen -- without (!) progesterone -- and then experience an increase in progesterone once the breast can support ductal development.

If progesterone was present at first (in numbers higher than estrogen) it could stop estrogen from growing the breasts. At least that's what I'm learning:

View attachment 8117
I'm not sure of what the level of progesterone is to create this ductal development, but I suspect it is very, very high relative to the male range. Note that almost all men will have much more progesterone than estrogen.

---

RE: keithc2485's question - I am not sure why HCG causes gyno symptoms with normal E2 levels in some men but I have read stories of it in this forum and others. If I was forced to guess, one idea I had is:

HCG may increase DHEA in some men. DHEA has a metabolite, Androstenediol, which acts as an estrogen (activates the estrogen receptor), while itself not "being" E2. So maybe this plays a role[1].

-----
1. From Wikipedia, "It has approximately 6% and 17% of the affinity of estradiol at the ERα and ERβ, respectively. Although androstenediol has far lower affinity for the ERs compared to the major estrogen estradiol, it circulates at approximately 100-fold higher concentrations, and so is thought may play a significant role as an estrogen in the body." (Androstenediol - Wikipedia)

Thanks for that info. So this leads me to believe that prolactin may in fact be the culprit. Interesting about DHEA and HCG though. While on pregnyl HCG, my DHEA would sometimes elevate from the top of the range at 400 naturally, to almost 800 while on pregnyl. So having DHEA too high could of been a factor in me having so many nipple and breast issues while on HCG monotherapy.

 

[keithc2485]

Your testosterone panel is excellent, but I've heard men getting gyno with normal estrogen after starting TRT. I've also heard HCG can directly cause breast tissue growth. You need to try to find the lowest effective dosage.

Presence of Luteinizing Hormone/Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Receptors in Male Breast Tissues

thank you for looking. im currently doing a test run of the 250iu 2x a week for 14 days seeing how i feel , if anything comes back im going to 75iu 2x a week .

 

[keithc2485]

Possibly increased prolactin or progesterone. I’m guessing prolactin though. If you look up symptoms of high prolactin you’ll see all the symptoms you described.

i in fact to have like i stated to another member Prolactinoma and alaways have it going up n down ... i have to get an MRI yearly to check my pituitary adenoma , its very small and not a threat to me "says the docs" but i watch it ..

NO one has ever said its bad enough or HIGH enough to be treated ...

 

[keithc2485]

thank you everyone for ur responses...

Im sorry i forgot to include the high prolactin and edenoma on my pituitary gland .

that def, could have a lot to do with why i had Gynecomastia even years before going on TRT ...

this stuff gets so tiring keeping up .... guys who are just living with normal natural hormones have NO idea the up keep...
THANKS FOR THE CONTINUED SUPPORT DUDES