DHEA + AI only protocol?

[of574]

Hello all,

DHEA is bottom of range and I would like to bring it up. Problem is, it makes me lose wood at rather low doses from 10mg up.

I am not on TRT and having weak adrenals. DHEA above 5mg does only work in combination with HC.

My working theory is that DHEA increases estrogens and that's causing my issues.

Has anybody here tried DHEA only plus an AI?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

You state you have weak adrenal glands. Clinically verified by ACTH stim test, 24 hour salivary cortisol test or 3 p.m. cortisol blood test? I had mild adrenal insufficiency a few decades ago, diagnosed by a smart endo, based on my 3 p.m. cortisol value. He placed me on Florinef(fludrocortisone). Within 24 hours, I was sleeping soundly, body temp went up and erections came back.

Fortunately, most of us can order our own labs, unless you have a doctor who will order any test you request. Not knocking experimenting on yourself. Quite a few of us do it. And we do it because we can't find a doctor who is knowledgeable.

 

[of574]

Not confirmed by a stim test. But urine tests, dhea values and HC trials as well as symptoms point to it.

It's interesting that you bring up the aldosterone angle because that's another avenue I could think of. DHEA, at least in the rat , reduces aldosterone and whatever is needed to compensate for this missing aldosterone might cause my issues.
HC+FC helped sexual function except libido. Adding DHEA kills both.

"Not knocking experimenting on yourself. Quite a few of us do it. And we do it because we can't find a doctor who is knowledgeable." Guilty as charged. If I give it a serious try I'd make sure to go very slow on the AI.

Interesting to hear about your experience and that your doc puts you on only FC based on a 3pm cortisol reading. Happy to hear it was the right thing for you.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Not confirmed by a stim test. But urine tests, dhea values and HC trials as well as symptoms point to it.

It's interesting that you bring up the aldosterone angle because that's another avenue I could think of. DHEA, at least in the rat , reduces aldosterone and whatever is needed to compensate for this missing aldosterone might cause my issues.
HC+FC helped sexual function except libido. Adding DHEA kills both.

"Not knocking experimenting on yourself. Quite a few of us do it. And we do it because we can't find a doctor who is knowledgeable." Guilty as charged. If I give it a serious try I'd make sure to go very slow on the AI.

Interesting to hear about your experience and that your doc puts you on only FC based on a 3pm cortisol reading. Happy to hear it was the right thing for you.

There's nothing wrong with being your own lab rat, LOL, as long as you do your homework and take it slow. As for my experience with my late endocrinologist, he certainly had a curious mind. He understood things in a different way than other doctors. This was in 1989.

I guess the stim test existed but as it turned out, my 3 p.m. cortisol was below the lowest value for that time of day. Within 6 or 7 months, I was taken off FC by an endo in Baltimore, where I'd moved to and I was fine...except for my severe mood swings and my diagnosis late in 1990 with bipolar illness. The beginning of my 'long, strange trip'.

 

[Systemlord]

Hello all,

DHEA is bottom of range and I would like to bring it up. Problem is, it makes me lose wood at rather low doses from 10mg up.

I am not on TRT and having weak adrenals. DHEA above 5mg does only work in combination with HC.

My working theory is that DHEA increases estrogens and that's causing my issues.

Has anybody here tried DHEA only plus an AI?

What your lifestyle look like, sleep, diet, exercise?

 

[Systemlord]

My working theory is that DHEA increases estrogens and that's causing my issues.

DHEA can increase estrogen in men.

 

[Vince]

Hello all,

DHEA is bottom of range and I would like to bring it up. Problem is, it makes me lose wood at rather low doses from 10mg up.

I am not on TRT and having weak adrenals. DHEA above 5mg does only work in combination with HC.

My working theory is that DHEA increases estrogens and that's causing my issues.

Has anybody here tried DHEA only plus an AI?

Basically dhea converts testosterone into estrogen. Men shouldn't use it if they're not on trt.

 

[of574]

There's nothing wrong with being your own lab rat, LOL, as long as you do your homework and take it slow. As for my experience with my late endocrinologist, he certainly had a curious mind. He understood things in a different way than other doctors. This was in 1989.

I guess the stim test existed but as it turned out, my 3 p.m. cortisol was below the lowest value for that time of day. Within 6 or 7 months, I was taken off FC by an endo in Baltimore, where I'd moved to and I was fine...except for my severe mood swings and my diagnosis late in 1990 with bipolar illness. The beginning of my 'long, strange trip'.

As hinted to, I was on HC, FC and felt like my younger self again. I stopped it after several months because I wasn't quite comfortable with a replacement dose without DHEA to balance it off.
I just stopped cold turkey and was fine too. It took a couple of weeks to be back at my older self again.
That was years ago. I function without those meds but did a few more trials and it is during those trials that things like clearing out the garage or similar get done. Life is easier on it.

What your lifestyle look like, sleep, diet, exercise?

I feel like the low hanging fruits are all picked there. Nor work nor family cause significant stress. I sleep well 7-9 h a day. That improved when I reduced workouts and moved them from mornings to afternoons. Diet? I don't drink coffee and only very little alcohol. I don't really eat any packaged foods nor sugary drinks. My BMI is low normal.

DHEA can increase estrogen in men.

Yes, and going through the forum it is not unheard of that DHEA is not well tolerated. It is just the one hormone that correlates most with sexual function and as it sits quite low for me I don't want to give up on it just yet.

 

[of574]

Basically dhea converts testosterone into estrogen. Men shouldn't use it if they're not on trt.

Yes, I can imagine DHEA converting excessively to estrogen and the latter inhibiting endogenous T.
But wouldn't an AI theoretically help with exactly that?

 

[Vince]

Yes, I can imagine DHEA converting excessively to estrogen and the latter inhibiting endogenous T.
But wouldn't an AI theoretically help with exactly that?

In theory, yes. I just think it's too dangerous to mess with an AI. Before I started TRT I tried dhea and all I did was lower my testosterone. It did bring up my estrogen into a normal range but I felt terrible.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

In theory, yes. I just think it's too dangerous to mess with an AI. Before I started TRT I tried dhea and all I did was lower my testosterone. It did bring up my estrogen into a normal range but I felt terrible.

Same, DHEA lowered my testosterone and increased my estrone (E1) levels by a huge amount.

 

[Another Great Day]

DHEA can increase estrogen in men.

If a male is on

Basically dhea converts testosterone into estrogen. Men shouldn't use it if they're not on trt.

Basically dhea converts testosterone into estrogen. Men shouldn't use it if they're not on trt.

My recent labs 12-21-23:
I am TRT patient
Estradiol, sensitive = 36.5
Range is 8.0-35.0.
Not currently taking DHEA, based on this information am I correct that I should not take DHEA?

 

[Systemlord]

Not currently taking DHEA, based on this information am I correct that I should not take DHEA?

If DHEA is low and causing symptoms, then you should take it. 25-50 mg is a good starting place, start low and go slow.

 

[Another Great Day]

If DHEA is low and causing symptoms, then you should take it. 25-50 mg is a good starting place, start low and go slow.

I should have included this information as well,
12-21-23 labs
DHEA 41.8 Range 48.9-344.2
I am not currently taking an anti-depressant (SSRI, SNRI), but may start within the next month.
Am I correct that they should not be combined with DHEA?

Thank you very much -

 

[Systemlord]

Am I correct that they should not be combined with DHEA?

Low levels of DHEA are linked to depressed mood, fatigue, and feeling unwell. You need DHEA, end of story.

I'm not aware of any interactions with hormones and AD's.

Response will come down to individual biology.

My levels are normal, midrange and if I take DHEA, the back of my throat feels like pins and needles.

 

[Vince]

If a male is on



My recent labs 12-21-23:
I am TRT patient
Estradiol, sensitive = 36.5
Range is 8.0-35.0.
Not currently taking DHEA, based on this information am I correct that I should not take DHEA?

I supplement with Pregnenolone 10 mg and 25 mg of DHEA.

My most recent labs.

DHEA-Sulfate 523.0 H ug/dL range 30.9-295.6 (age adjusted)
Estradiol, Sensitive 23.0 pg/mL range 8.0-35.0
No AI

Before I started TRT I tried dhea the higher I increased my DHEA the lower my testosterone went and a higher of my estrogen was. So I don't know what to tell you. I never tried it increasing and lowering my DHEA since I've been on testosterone. Maybe I should.

 

[Shawn]

i would lower the DHEA dose because 523 way above the range. the pregnenolone is likely elevating it too since its further back on the steroidgenesis pathway

DHEA + AI isn't a new theory.
here is an excerpt from an MD back in 2011

For Men Only. Before You Try Testosterone Replacement. Marcus L. Gitterle, M.D. The Synergy Matrix TM Guide to Male Hormone Optimization - PDF Free Download

For Men Only Before You Try Testosterone Replacement The Synergy Matrix TM Guide to Male Hormone Optimization Marcus L. Gitterle, M.D. Marcus L. Gitterle, M.D. For Men Only - Before You Try Testosterone

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