Most people don’t need TRT

[Naegleria]

I was hovering between 360-450ng natty

Now im at 766 but with lots of sides like bloated, palpitations, erection issues i didnt have before my PSA went to 4.5 which means my prostate has enlarged, i dont feel much different except a little more muscle lol

If this is what trt is like then i can be without. Erections is a big issue. For many people i read online it can wreck libido and erection past the honeymoon phase despite having good mumbers on paper

Id rather get back my hardons and bit a little smaller in muscles than this tbh

Also larger prostate is not good

I read so many reports here snd other groups of people who had this erectile issues on trt

Of course the ones with no issue couldn’t care less since is not them and tell them your protocol is wrong maybe change this or that

Maybe trt is not for you and is as simple as that

I feel like most get on trt believing itll get them jacked ripped huge energy manly alpha etc but is far from that but they have to continue cause they have no choice

Millions of men have low average levels and do perfectly fine in life. Most dont need it

Not to mention the body is a millions of yesr machine is foolish to think it can be fooled by some bottle testosterone the body knows is fake and adjusts everything accordingly

Not to mention TRT thickens the blood in almost everyone, some are more prone to it while other not so much

Most have to donate blood, i mean if you have to donate then how can be it a good thing for the heart?

Youre donating because you know thicker blood can increase risk for heart attacks and strokes, so if it wasn’t an issue you wouldn’t feel the need to donate

People often say that high altitude people have high blood markers this may be true but they are still considered high risk people by medicine

Also native americans from high altitudes tend to have great heart genetics as well, theyre smaller in size and eat low protein diets

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

I was hovering between 360-450ng natty

Now im at 766 but with lots of sides like bloated, palpitations, erection issues i didnt have before my PSA went to 4.5 which means my prostate has enlarged, i dont feel much different except a little more muscle lol

If this is what trt is like then i can be without. Erections is a big issue. For many people i read online it can wreck libido and erection past the honeymoon phase despite having good mumbers on paper

Id rather get back my hardons and bit a little smaller in muscles than this tbh

Also larger prostate is not good

I read so many reports here snd other groups of people who had this erectile issues on trt

Of course the ones with no issue couldn’t care less since is not them and tell them your protocol is wrong maybe change this or that

Maybe trt is not for you and is as simple as that

I feel like most get on trt believing itll get them jacked ripped huge energy manly alpha etc but is far from that but they have to continue cause they have no choice

Millions of men have low average levels and do perfectly fine in life. Most dont need it

Not to mention the body is a millions of yesr machine is foolish to think it can be fooled by some bottle testosterone the body knows is fake and adjusts everything accordingly

Not to mention TRT thickens the blood in almost everyone, some are more prone to it while other not so much

Most have to donate blood, i mean if you have to donate then how can be it a good thing for the heart?

Youre donating because you know thicker blood can increase risk for heart attacks and strokes, so if it wasn’t an issue you wouldn’t feel the need to donate

People often say that high altitude people have high blood markers this may be true but they are still considered high risk people by medicine

Also native americans from high altitudes tend to have great heart genetics as well, theyre smaller in size and eat low protein diets

That's your opinion, not a fact. I agree there can be many side effects, some mild, that can be managed, some not. I never have had elevated hematocrit or hemoglobin, maybe because I stay well hydrated. You're painting with a broad stroke as you characterize the possible and alleged negatives of TRT. What you don't always find on forums are the many men for whom testosterone therapy restored their health and sexual function. If a man is doing fine, he just wants to get on with his life.

Again, I respect your right to have your opinion and if you're feeling good and functioning with natty numbers, excellent! I wish you well.

 

[Naegleria]

The problem is that it doesnt work for everyone, many many people quit TRT after a few months or even 2 years, cause in the end the improvements are not there and they feel the same if not worse than before it.

TRT will only restore sexual function if such malfunction it was caused by really low testosterone to begin with. Most erectile issues are caused by blood flow, nerve damage, endothelial damage, poor nitric oxide, etc. Testosterone plays little role. Plenty of people with low levels who have zero issues with erections.

What about the people who never had ED before but now have it on TRT?

TRT does thicken the blood in many people, hydration has ZERO to do with it. TRT stimulates EPO which causes the body make more red blood cells. Some people good genetics are unaffected by this. Majority will always see an increase in their red blood cells, some will still remain in range while other will be out of range.

Its possible that TRT affects a whole lot more hormones than the ones tested in most TRT labs. It probably affects everything in the body. This would explain why some people who never had ED, may develop it on TRT, has nothing to do with protocol or the user.

TRT is just a bandaid, it doesn't fix the real issue that caused your body to produce less testosterone, in many cases, this issue is genetic, epigenetic, environmental, or both. Maybe science one day will able to alter genes and fix hormones issues at the core.

Blood flow is needed for erections to work, and TRT thickens the blood if just slightly, could also explain why some have issues on TRT.

TRT can also accelerate or worse arterial calcification

Some people have good results on it, while others dont, what I find absurd and insulting is the people who have good result assume the rest of us are doing things wrong, is our fault, or something is done wrong, your diet is wrong, you lifestyle, your protocol, your doctor

no mofo sometimes some stuff doesnt work well for some people and not suited for them

 

[Systemlord]

I was hovering between 360-450ng natty

This is difficult to judge without the Free T measurement.

Millions of men have low average levels and do perfectly fine in life.

Maybe you haven’t been paying attention, but the US and other countries (UK) are in the middle of an obesity, type 2 diabetes pandemic, more than 50% of the population is overweight, which has a negative impact on testosterone and inflammation.

I guess the population at large is doing perfectly fine, huh?

Testosterone and the Heart - PMC

Testosterone (T) has a number of important effects on the cardiovascular system. In men, T levels begin to decrease after age 40, and this decrease has been associated with an increase in all-cause mortality and cardiovascular (CV) risk. Low T ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Testosterone (T) has a number of important effects on the cardiovascular system. In men, T levels begin to decrease after age 40, and this decrease has been associated with an increase in all-cause mortality and cardiovascular (CV) risk. Low T levels in men may increase their risk of developing coronary artery disease (CAD), metabolic syndrome, and type 2 diabetes. Reduced T levels in men with congestive heart failure (CHF) portends a poor prognosis and is associated with increased mortality. Studies have reported a reduced CV risk with higher endogenous T concentration, improvement of known CV risk factors with T therapy, and reduced mortality in T-deficient men who underwent T replacement therapy versus untreated men. Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) has been shown to improve myocardial ischemia in men with CAD, improve exercise capacity in patients with CHF, and improve serum glucose levels, HbA1c, and insulin resistance in men with diabetes and prediabetes.

If this is what trt is like then i can be without. Erections is a big issue. For many people i read online it can wreck libido and erection past the honeymoon phase despite having good mumbers on paper

You’ll mostly read of experiences online by people having problems with therapy, the majority of people on T therapy don’t have problems and therefore go on with their life as usual.

Youre donating because you know thicker blood can increase risk for heart attacks and strokes

Show me the data to support this claim. A lot of diseases, for instance, polycythemia vera, cancer of the bone marrow, that raise the hematocrit and hemoglobin, the disease is causing the harm, clotting and strokes.

TRT or high elevation only increases red blood cells, you need platelets to increase to clot up and stroke. There is NO data to support any claim that TRT increases your risk of heart attacks or strokes!

A lot of the long term studies show the benefits outweighs the risks.

Stroke-Related Mortality at Different Altitudes: A 17-Year Nationwide Population-Based Analysis From Ecuador - PMC

Introduction: Worldwide, more than 5.7% of the population reside above 1,500 m of elevation. It has been hypothesized that acute short-term hypoxia exposure could increase the risk of developing a stroke. Studies assessing the effect of altitude on ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is the first epidemiological study that aims to elucidate the association between stroke and altitude using four different elevation ranges. Our findings suggest that living at higher elevations offers a reduction or the risk of dying due to stroke as well as a reduction in the probability of being admitted to the hospital. Nevertheless, this protective factor has a stronger effect between 2,000 and 3,500 m.

 

[Naegleria]

again TRT doesnt work for everyone and is insulting how the people that works for them believe is our fault and we doing something wrong.

For some people works ok, for others great, others probably not worth doing.

How do you explain erections getting worse on TRT? I read plenty of post about this in this very forum, here is one

Sexual Dysfunction on TRT

Trt has been very beneficial to my life but also very negative in some ways, notably in the bedroom. I have suffered from severe ED and lack of libido on TRT. I have been on for many years with a variety of protocols. My main issue is having absolutely no sexual desire. If I am able to get...

www.excelmale.com

there are many others

is always the person fault or the protocol no sometimes it dont work for everyone and we all respond different cause we have different genetics, is not for everyone and not everyone has good result with it

I see ZERO reason to stay on TRT for a little bit more muscle and energy if my dick is not working good, screw that, clearly TRT interact with a lot more hormones and parameter than people realize

Its very possible that by causing ball shrinking is also causing nerve damage to other surrounding tissues, it doesnt make sense why someone who never had ED would now have it on TRT that is supposed to make you more manly, improve health, etc

This is because erections have little to do with testosterone, I read of people who went off TRT and their erection issues were fixed, why is that? probably caused changes that TRT made to hormones, parameters, markers return to pre TRT, so now the body is happy back to normal

This means TRT is messing up something that is needed for erection to work good

Of course the people who dont have these issues on TRT couldnt care less and why would you since is not your dick

 

[Systemlord]

TRT is just a bandaid, it doesn't fix the real issue

That’s the plan, for TRT to cure my insulin resistance. It’s been documents before, an obese type 2 diabetic after several years on TRT, loses the excess weight, reversing the insulin resistance, stops therapy and T values are significant higher than baseline.

As for the body recognizing the bottled testosterone as fake, it’s a testosterone molecule, it’s the same stuff the body produces naturally and as such the body can’t tell the difference.

If it wasn’t testosterone there would be no conversion of T ->E2 or DHT, but the body recognizes a testosterone molecule.

 

[Systemlord]

This is because erections have little to do with testosterone, I read of people who went off TRT and their erection issues were fixed, why is that?

This means TRT is messing up something that is needed for erection to work good

You’re right about that, TRT can mess with erections. I don’t tolerate cypionate or enanthate esters, no erections, only overstimulation of my central nervous system.

Short acting esters are a different story, my erections work now. My hormones peak very quickly, drop equally as fast, giving my body a break from what was unnaturally static hormones my body was forced to deal with but couldn’t.

Natural hormones rise in the morning and fall throughout the day, cypionate and most types of injections are quite different and this is a very unnatural hormonal rhythm.

 

[tareload]

I was hovering between 360-450ng natty

Now im at 766 but with lots of sides like bloated, palpitations, erection issues i didnt have before my PSA went to 4.5 which means my prostate has enlarged, i dont feel much different except a little more muscle lol

If this is what trt is like then i can be without. Erections is a big issue. For many people i read online it can wreck libido and erection past the honeymoon phase despite having good mumbers on paper

Id rather get back my hardons and bit a little smaller in muscles than this tbh

Also larger prostate is not good

I read so many reports here snd other groups of people who had this erectile issues on trt

Of course the ones with no issue couldn’t care less since is not them and tell them your protocol is wrong maybe change this or that

Maybe trt is not for you and is as simple as that

I feel like most get on trt believing itll get them jacked ripped huge energy manly alpha etc but is far from that but they have to continue cause they have no choice

Millions of men have low average levels and do perfectly fine in life. Most dont need it

Not to mention the body is a millions of yesr machine is foolish to think it can be fooled by some bottle testosterone the body knows is fake and adjusts everything accordingly

Not to mention TRT thickens the blood in almost everyone, some are more prone to it while other not so much

Most have to donate blood, i mean if you have to donate then how can be it a good thing for the heart?

Youre donating because you know thicker blood can increase risk for heart attacks and strokes, so if it wasn’t an issue you wouldn’t feel the need to donate

People often say that high altitude people have high blood markers this may be true but they are still considered high risk people by medicine

Also native americans from high altitudes tend to have great heart genetics as well, theyre smaller in size and eat low protein diets

Welcome to reality. Congrats and sorry at the same time. No one ever said those gainz were free (at least not the honest ones).

Thanks for the time to make those posts. Good for folks to read and think about.

Change your title to "most people looking for extra muscle dont need TRT TBH."

 

[Naegleria]

You’re right about that, TRT can mess with erections. I don’t tolerate cypionate or enanthate esters, no erections, only overstimulation of my central nervous system.

Short acting esters are a different story, my erections work now. My hormones peak very quickly, drop equally as fast, giving my body a break from what was unnaturally static hormones my body was forced to deal with but couldn’t.

Natural hormones rise in the morning and fall throughout the day, cypionate and most types of injections are quite different and this is a very unnatural hormonal rhythm.

well it happened to me on the compounded cream and is supposed to closer to a natural production than injection as is used daily

I see ZERO point in staying on TRT when the only benefit I've seen is a little more muscle (which would very well be from me working out harder and more often now that I think I have this magic juice to support) and a little more energy, im still tired after work as always

I gained weight, i look bloated, my face is puffier, my erection are suffering, my PSA went up above the range, i have more anxiety, starting to get some pimple on my body now, im starting to feel some discomfort after urinating probably from an enlarged prostate

i dont feel any manlier or more calm or more confident lol, as anxious if not more anxious as always, yeah i look a little bit bigger but what do i do with that

 

[Naegleria]

That’s the plan, for TRT to cure my insulin resistance. It’s been documents before, an obese type 2 diabetic after several years on TRT, loses the excess weight, reversing the insulin resistance, stops therapy and T values are significant higher than baseline.

As for the body recognizing the bottled testosterone as fake, it’s a testosterone molecule, it’s the same stuff the body produces naturally and as such the body can’t tell the difference.

If it wasn’t testosterone there would be no conversion of T ->E2 or DHT, but the body recognizes a testosterone molecule.

the body knows is fake as in not natural, because is not produced by the balls, the balls shrink in size and the brain is no longer signals for the balls to produce testosterone, the body knows

 

[JmarkH]

@Naegleria what is the goal of your post? I'm a bit lost as to what you wish to achieve.
btw: I've not seen anyone try to convince you to stay on TRT.

 

[GomaFini]

@Naegleria hello there, checking in here. I am one having ED issues started around months ago. 4 years into TRT now. I am desesperated. Don't know what's happening and what to do.

 

[Naegleria]

@Naegleria hello there, checking in here. I am one having ED issues started around months ago. 4 years into TRT now. I am desesperated. Don't know what's happening and what to do.

Did you have the issues before it? If not you should of quit within the first 6 months why u waited so long

I guess ed happened recently is possible TRT caused some damage to nerves or blood flow

Do erections improve if you stop for a week or 2?

 

[GomaFini]

Did you have the issues before it? If not you should of quit within the first 6 months why u waited so long

I guess ed happened recently is possible TRT caused some damage to nerves or blood flow

Do erections improve if you stop for a week or 2?

Started around end of last year. For 3 years I was good. Now I have low libido. I don't thinks is nothing related to "damage to nerves" becuase if I don't inject for a week or more my libido comes back. Is a problem when I inject testosterone. I suspect if because of low SHBG and/or Estrogen issues.

 

[Systemlord]

the body knows is fake as in not natural, because is not produced by the balls, the balls shrink in size and the brain is no longer signals for the balls to produce testosterone, the body knows

To say something is fake, fake testosterone won’t raise your testosterone levels, because it is fake, therefore nothing happens. The body does recognize that it’s testosterone, but from an external source, other than from within the testicles.

The pituitary gland is dialing the LH down because it detects normal testosterone, decreases LH, in order to regulate itself.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I was hovering between 360-450ng natty

Now im at 766 but with lots of sides like bloated, palpitations, erection issues i didnt have before my PSA went to 4.5 which means my prostate has enlarged, i dont feel much different except a little more muscle lol

If this is what trt is like then i can be without. Erections is a big issue. For many people i read online it can wreck libido and erection past the honeymoon phase despite having good mumbers on paper

Id rather get back my hardons and bit a little smaller in muscles than this tbh

Also larger prostate is not good

I read so many reports here snd other groups of people who had this erectile issues on trt

Of course the ones with no issue couldn’t care less since is not them and tell them your protocol is wrong maybe change this or that

Maybe trt is not for you and is as simple as that

I feel like most get on trt believing itll get them jacked ripped huge energy manly alpha etc but is far from that but they have to continue cause they have no choice

Millions of men have low average levels and do perfectly fine in life. Most dont need it

Not to mention the body is a millions of yesr machine is foolish to think it can be fooled by some bottle testosterone the body knows is fake and adjusts everything accordingly

Not to mention TRT thickens the blood in almost everyone, some are more prone to it while other not so much

Most have to donate blood, i mean if you have to donate then how can be it a good thing for the heart?

Youre donating because you know thicker blood can increase risk for heart attacks and strokes, so if it wasn’t an issue you wouldn’t feel the need to donate

People often say that high altitude people have high blood markers this may be true but they are still considered high risk people by medicine

Also native americans from high altitudes tend to have great heart genetics as well, theyre smaller in size and eat low protein diets

Most of us who have reached a good place on TRT have been through an extended journey of self-education, trial-and-error, and continuous learning and refinement, often spanning a period of years until we reached significant benefit. In addition, the body is a system of systems, and many of those systems must also be addressed. This is true of most health problems, and of most challenges of any kind in life. "Need" is relative to the standard of excellence each individual is willing to commit to, however it is fairly safe to say that the majority of both men and women will significantly benefit from some form of hormone enhancement at some point in their lives.

 

[Naegleria]

Most of us who have reached a good place on TRT have been through an extended journey of self-education, trial-and-error, and continuous learning and refinement, often spanning a period of years until we reached significant benefit. In addition, the body is a system of systems, and many of those systems must also be addressed. This is true of most health problems, and of most challenges of any kind in life. "Need" is relative to the standard of excellence each individual is willing to commit to, however it is fairly safe to say that the majority of both men and women will significantly benefit from some form of hormone enhancement at some point in their lives.

If is this much work just for a little more muscle then is not worth it for me

I have more sides than good

Literally i feel the same except my muscle are a little bigger now

Im bloated my
Psa went up where now im have discomfort when peeing
Erectile issues
More anxiety

I feel like trt is overrated and it only works good for people who were really low so the changes are night and day

For someone low normal the improvements are minimal

at least for me is not what i expected in wasn’t expecting miracles but it barely helps in some aspects

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

If is this much work just for a little more muscle then is not worth it for me

I have more sides than good

Literally i feel the same except my muscle are a little bigger now

Im bloated my
Psa went up where now im have discomfort when peeing
Erectile issues
More anxiety

I feel like trt is overrated and it only works good for people who were really low so the changes are night and day

For someone low normal the improvements are minimal

at least for me is not what i expected in wasn’t expecting miracles but it barely helps in some aspects

You'll find a number of threads on here on how to restart your natural production. I agree that the effort and risks are high if you are already performing well.

 

[Charliebizz]

If is this much work just for a little more muscle then is not worth it for me

I have more sides than good

Literally i feel the same except my muscle are a little bigger now

Im bloated my
Psa went up where now im have discomfort when peeing
Erectile issues
More anxiety

I feel like trt is overrated and it only works good for people who were really low so the changes are night and day

For someone low normal the improvements are minimal

at least for me is not what i expected in wasn’t expecting miracles but it barely helps in some aspects

your mad at people who have a bias because it works for them. While showing your bias because it hasn’t worked for you lol. While I agree it’s a bandaid. Good luck finding the root cause in todays world. For what it’s worth. I’m one of the people who struggles to get trt to work 100% but I’m realistic. i don’t think anybody on excelmale is trying to sell trt as some panacea. We all know it’s a work around and invasive to a very complex system. However it beats the alternative for “most”

 

[Naegleria]

I had none of these issues before TRT and tho my levels werent great they weren horrible either

Most importantly i had no palpitations and no erectile issues

I googled this forum and other venues many have experienced similar sides that go away when they stop trt

There is already a dude in this thread confirming this that when he goes one week without injections his libido and erections return and hes been 4 years on trt