Are there people that get on TRT and have no or very few side effects?

[Marcel]

East, West, Central, GTA... ?

You?

 

[Marcel]

When it comes to side effects shutdown of the hpta, reduced fertility/testicular atrophy, and an increase in your hemoglobin/hematocrit is a given.

The addition of hCG which mimics LH will help prevent/minimize testicular atrophy and maintain fertility.

RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit can be managed by blood donations but it is a slippery slope.

Regarding some of the cosmetic sides such as (acne, increased body hair, male pattern baldness, water retention/bloat, and gyno).

When it comes to acne, male pattern baldness, and gynecomastia genetics will play a big role as some men are more prone to this.

Many can struggle with acne (especially body) or notice accelerated hair loss when using therapeutic doses of T, especially when running too high an FT level, but when it comes to getting gynecomastia it is far from common.

Although excess e2 can play a role in water retention (bloat/puffiness) it is not solely to blame.

Androgens increase the retention of electrolytes.

The use of exogenous androgens will result in the retention of sodium, chloride, water, potassium, calcium, and inorganic phosphates.

Bloating/edema can be common in some and to what degree depends on many factors.

Most of the initial increases in weight gain on trt are water-related whether extra-cellular/intra-cellular.

Many men on trt can gain 5-15 lbs of water weight within the first month.

The majority of gains when first starting trt are due to extra-cellular water (between the muscle and skin) which shows up as bloat/puffiness and intra-cellular water (inside the muscle cell) which will make the muscle look fuller and harder due to increased glycogen stores.

The majority of men that end up struggling with elevated RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit let alone some of the cosmetic sides are due to running too high an FT level.

Keep in mind that many of the men on those forums struggling with sides are overmedicated and running very high/absurdly high trough FT levels!

Stuck on that more T is better mentality!

To be honest, when it comes to cardiovascular and prostate health having a healthy TT/FT level is critical.

Low-T is detrimental to your overall health (physical/mental).

The main reason testosterone is used for replacement therapy over nandrolone let alone any other AAS is that testosterone drugs provide a hormone that is already produced in the body.

T's metabolites estradiol and DHT are needed in healthy amounts to experience the full spectrum of testosterone's beneficial effects on (cardiovascular and prostate, brain, libido, erectile function, bone, tendons, immune system, lipids, and body composition).


*Natural testosterone is viewed as the best androgen for substitution in hypogonadal men. The reason behind the selection is that testosterone can be converted to DHT and E2, thus developing the full spectrum of testosterone activities in long-term substitution

*Preparations of native testosterone or its esters (aromatizable T) should be used for TTh



Regarding cardiovascular/prostate health and TRT some of these threads may help put your mind at ease!

TRT and Cardiovascular Disease

Testosterone replacement therapy and cardiovascular disease (2022) Jeremy M. Auerbach and Mohit Khera The use of testosterone therapy has a complex history of apprehension and questions regarding its safety. Despite an eventual consensus that testosterone therapy was safe and effective...

www.excelmale.com

TRT and the Prostate

Testosterone Treatment and the Risk of Prostate Adverse Events (2022) Jason A. Levy, DO, MS, Arthur L. Burnett, MD, MBA, Adrian S. Dobs, MD, MHS INTRODUCTION Definition Hypogonadism is a clinical syndrome that results from failure of the testis to produce physiologic concentrations of...

www.excelmale.com

Management of Erythrocytosis in Men Receiving TRT

Management of Erythrocytosis in Men Receiving Testosterone Therapy: Clinical Consultation Guide (2022) Pranjal Agrawal, Sajya M. Singh, Taylor Kohn 1. Introduction Testosterone deficiency, previously known as male hypogonadism, affects approximately 25% of all men, with a prevalence that...

www.excelmale.com

So here are my numbers, I had to write it:

Total testosterone: 8.0
Free testosterone: 172

Cholesterol: 4.76
Hdl cholesterol: 0.76
Non hdl: 4.0
Triglycerides: 6.86

Hemoglobin: 155
Hematocrit:0.44
Rbc: 4.9
Mchc: 348 (I have to look this up, not sure what it is)

Tsh: 1.12

I hope this gives you a bit more insight.

 

[Vince]

Hi Vince, thank you for replying. It doesn't affect your blood or are you taking ancillary medication to prevent any issues?

I did have to donate blood for the first two years. I actually donated every 8 weeks. After 2 years my HCT stabilize and I no longer have to donate blood, it's been over 6 years now. Hopefully it stays that way. Get out

 

[t_spacemonkey]

I also have concerns with Vegan/vegetarian. especially for mental health. there is a lot of people recovering from all sorts of issues on a carnivore diet. i eat mainly meat/fruit. some rice/beans/flour here and there but sparingly. if veganism isn't any sort of hard line for you, i'd highly recommend to try a close to pure carnivore/fruit diet for 30 days or so and see how you feel.

 

[sammmy]

Normal ranges have to be posted when you post test, otherwise the numbers are meaningless and people have to guess units.

 

[Marcel]

I also have concerns with Vegan/vegetarian. especially for mental health. there is a lot of people recovering from all sorts of issues on a carnivore diet. i eat mainly meat/fruit. some rice/beans/flour here and there but sparingly. if veganism isn't any sort of hard line for you, i'd highly recommend to try a close to pure carnivore/fruit diet for 30 days or so and see how you feel.

I actually feel better on the vegan diet. I do eat meat or fish every other week.

 

[Marcel]

Normal ranges have to be posted when you post test, otherwise the numbers are meaningless and people have to guess units.

Free testosterone: 160-699 (mine 172)
Total: 7.6-31.40 (mine 8.0)
Triglycerides: 1.69 (mine 6.86)

 

[Marcel]

A fellow Canuck!

I remember you from the first thread you posted on Excel.

Does depression from low testosterone feel different from "regular" depression?

Hi! I been struggling with ptsd and depression for a few years as a result of years of working as a first responder. I sought different ways to fix it however they work temporarily. Two weeks ago I got some blood work done and my testosterone came back low the doctor referred me to a men's...

www.excelmale.com

Someone brought it to my attention, here are the ranges:

Free testosterone: 160-699 (mine 172)
Total: 7.6-31.40 (mine 8.0)
Triglycerides: 1.69 (mine 6.86)

 

[Systemlord]

I'm low maintenance, trt seems completely the opposite.

You’re basing this on other’s experiences of men having problems which are in the minority. TRT is super low maintenance for me. I take a gel capsule twice per day and get consistently in my levels.

 

[Marcel]

You’re basing this on other’s experiences of men having problems which are in the minority. TRT is super low maintenance for me. I take a gel capsule twice per day and get consistently in my levels.

That's exactly what I want, couple of shots a week and move on. And yes I guess it is very superficial assumption because I am basing it on a small minority.

 

[Golfboy307]

Back to your original question: I have been on Test Cyp for 8 years with no side effects other than slightly shrunken testicles (doesn't bother me). It took a year of playing with dosage and amount of sticks to come up with the regimen that works for me. Which is: 40 mg ever 3 days. So around 90 mg per week. That puts me around 850 TT and FT in the middle of the range with no need for an AI.

 

[sammmy]

As I suspected you have low normal free testosterone, probably because your SHBG is also low.

Your LDL cholesterol and triglycerides are abnormally high. I would not do any TRT before these are investigated - are they due to a bad diet, a metabolic syndrome, a liver disease, or genetics.

Were these tests done before or after you changed to vegetarian?

Test for liver enzymes must be done to check the liver health. Also test for glycated hemoglobin HbA1C to check for diabetes.

 

[Marcel]

As I suspected you have low normal free testosterone, probably because your SHBG is also low.

Your LDL cholesterol and triglycerides are abnormally high. I would not do any TRT before these are investigated - are they due to a bad diet, a metabolic syndrome, a liver disease, or genetics.

Were these tests done before or after you changed to vegetarian?

Test for liver enzymes must be done to check the liver health. Also test for glycated hemoglobin HbA1C to check for diabetes.

Thanks, yes i wont be touching anything until I get more blood work and see the cardiologist. One cardiologist thinks it's genetics. This are the result of a test done before the diet, I lost 20 lbs since then. I suspect that it's a combination of them all. I'll get tested next week week again see if anything changes

 

[Willyt]

You seem like good candidate for TRT. Keep it simple.

Start with dose of 100mg or less. The vast majority of side effects around here are caused by doses being too high. Average healthy male "only" produces 7mg of T per day (equivalent to 10mg cypionate with the ester). If you push your body into supra-physio levels, the body will rebel eventually.

You may have to play a bit with frequency of injections. Good starting point is 2x per week. Some men like the swing of 1x per week while others prefer steady daily injections.

Minimize your variables. No HCG or AI until TRT stabilizes. Beware supplements also messing with protocol.

Enjoy and then completely ignore the 3-4 week honeymoon period!

 

[sammmy]

What is your current body fat %, how many calories per day do you eat, what are the typical carbs that you eat in your vegetarian diet? French fries are vegetarian too.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

cholesterol is not a problem unless you eat a processed diet full of sugars and seed oils, and even then your diet, not the cholesterol is an issue. I personally run a very high cholesterol and feel pretty good on it. i had a calcium score scan done, and have 0 plaque, I would ignore all mainstream doctors on this and maybe get a calcium score x-ray if you are intersted

 

[Marcel]

You seem like good candidate for TRT. Keep it simple.

Start with dose of 100mg or less. The vast majority of side effects around here are caused by doses being too high. Average healthy male "only" produces 7mg of T per day (equivalent to 10mg cypionate with the ester). If you push your body into supra-physio levels, the body will rebel eventually.

You may have to play a bit with frequency of injections. Good starting point is 2x per week. Some men like the swing of 1x per week while others prefer steady daily injections.

Minimize your variables. No HCG or AI until TRT stabilizes. Beware supplements also messing with protocol.

Enjoy and then completely ignore the 3-4 week honeymoon period!

Thanks, yes I have no interest in being jacked, lean, energetic and healthy is all I want.

 

[Marcel]

cholesterol is not a problem unless you eat a processed diet full of sugars and seed oils, and even then your diet, not the cholesterol is an issue. I personally run a very high cholesterol and feel pretty good on it. i had a calcium score scan done, and have 0 plaque, I would ignore all mainstream doctors on this and maybe get a calcium score x-ray if you are intersted

I am very interested in doing that. I will ask my cardiologist in February

 

[Marcel]

What is your current body fat %, how many calories per day do you eat, what are the typical carbs that you eat in your vegetarian diet? French fries are vegetarian too.

Body fat is a bout 13 to 15%, I don't watch calories. Carbs come from oatmeal, fruits, sweet potatoes, and high quality bread like Ezekiel (no more than 2 slices a day but I don't have bread everyday) I cut out all refined sugar (no pop, candy, ice cream and all that fun stuff)

 

[sammmy]

The same sugar (sucrose) and even worse (fructose) is in the fruits - metabolically they are like candy with vitamins. Your vegetarian diet should include more slow complex carbs like beans, lentils, rice.

Also, calories must be tracked. If you eat too many calories, it doesn't matter if they come from fruits, they will increase triglycerides and cholesterol.