Impact of HCG on Testosterone when added to TRT

[HealthMan]

For those that added HCG after being on testosterone alone what was the impact of HCG to total testosterone levels? Or if you changed HCG dosage (keeping everything else changed) how did it affect your TT levels?

I know this will vary amongst people and if you are primary or secondary. But if you could share you experience I would appreciate.

 

[FeelingLost]

My balls don't work. HCG did nothing for my TT lvl but it does raise my E2. I take it because when on monoT TRT I got sharp stabing pains in my nuts usually in the evening while watching TV. My balls retracted up towards my body. I did not notice a size change. My Doc put me on 800/wk HCG and in 2-3 weeks my pain was gone and the balls dropped back down to their normal position. I also got an interesting side effect my flaccid penis was 3-4 times its normal size. I called it the beer can. No improvement when it was erect. Basicly same length and width.
hth

 

[Vince]

I'm primary. Many Primary men claim a much better sense of well being and increase libido when on HCG.

 

[Vince Carter]

My balls don't work. HCG did nothing for my TT lvl but it does raise my E2. I take it because when on monoT TRT I got sharp stabing pains in my nuts usually in the evening while watching TV. My balls retracted up towards my body. I did not notice a size change. My Doc put me on 800/wk HCG and in 2-3 weeks my pain was gone and the balls dropped back down to their normal position. I also got an interesting side effect my flaccid penis was 3-4 times its normal size. I called it the beer can. No improvement when it was erect. Basicly same length and width.
hth

Great post I'll only add that if a guy is primary, problem being the testes, there will be a neglible endo T production when using HCG.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Secondary, I added HCG after some time on testosterone. No impact on levels, testosterone or estradiol, and no subjective response in terms of how I felt. There was a slight relaxing of my testicles and size increased a bit.

 

[Gman86]

For me it depends on the source of the HCG. I’ve tried it from 2 compounding pharmacies and one pharmaceutical grade HCG called Pregnyl.

All on 2,000iu/ week monotherapy
First compounding pharmacy - Total test 600
second compounding pharmacy - Total test 300
Pregnyl - Total test 1200

Now I’m on 110mg Test per week with 800iu HCG per week. The HCG I’m using is Pregnyl. Level came back at 1687 at trough. I inject both test and HCG EOD. So I’m guessing a decent amount of that total test is from HCG. Probably like 480 of it. When I was on 110mg Test and 1000iu Pregnyl HCG my total test level was 1855 at trough. If I was still using HCG from the compounding pharmacies my total test would of came back a lot lower on both tests probably due to less testosterone production from the HCG compared to Pregnyl.

So for me it depends on the source of the HCG. But this is just my experience and everyone’s different. I’m sure many do very well on HCG from compounding pharmacies.

 

[Vince Carter]

we've had some interesting words traded around on the potency of HCG from different sources. Im glad to see you have some tests to support that.

 

[Gman86]

Ya my insurance has always covered my labs thank god, so it is nice to have numbers to support claims instead of subjective experiences alone. I have plenty more blood work where that came from too. Years worth.

 

[galaxy]

Wow that's some huge variability Gman. I'm currently in my third week of Androgel 4 pumps + 500 IU HCG Pregnyl 2x/week and am feeling great. I struggled for 3 years with fatigue while investigating every other source of fatigue outside of TRT because I'm in my early 30s. I even tried low dose clomid twice and nothing came close. I was thinking of making the move to defy at some point, but the main point of concern I have was the use of compounding pharmacies vs brand name. This just drives the point home even further.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

This seems rather alarming. Considering how many on here use Defy, it sounds like something they should seriously investigate. I have not matched my HCG to blood tests, but subjectively, compounded HCG seems to vary quite a bit from vial to vial, however I can't tell for sure.

 

[galaxy]

Agreed guided

 

[Vince Carter]

I casually did labs DHEA-S, Progesterone, and as I remember when I was using 500iu 3x/week my DHEA-S and Prog were both down. Down just enough to be a statistical fluke not some major difference but you know HCG def was not promoting any up or downstream conversion for me. All around a time that I really started questioning why I was using it. Inspite of claims the LH receptors throughout the body, promoting that conversion...didn't work for me. bad HCG? who knows, but over time all this HCG, never did a thing for me besides my nuts aren't shriveled up.
All my HCG has been compounded from Hallandale, APS, Empower, and one other I don't remember.

 

[galaxy]

I wanted to bump this thread to see if there were any thoughts on the variability that Gman experienced using different forms of HCG (compounded vs brand). I know a significant amount of the community use compounded. I'm contemplating making the move to Defy but the main thing holding me up is the move to a compounding pharmacy (even one like Empower which has a great reputation).

Currently I buy HCG Pregnyl out of pocket for $100/10,000 IU and insurance covers my Androgel so I pay $20 for a month's supply. I'm about to move to shots though, so curious if there's much of a difference on the shots between compounded and brands.

 

[stx358]

Gman's experience mirrored mine exactly in two ways. First I was a dramatic responder to HCG. My TT jumped from 600 to 1200 when I added 150 IU/day to my 100 mg of test cyp q 3.5. Currently I am doing 70 mg of test cyp every 3.5 days and 200 IU of HCG daily and my TT is 1200, FT is 20. I am a very high SHBG person, usually mid 50's, so not sure how that plays in but I feel good on this regimen and I did not feel good on test cyp alone. I consult with Dr. C and he is fine with this regimen. It actually made me think that my testicles are working well enough to go off test cyp altogether but I was told HPT restarts are problematic for high SHBG guys like me.

Second, I also had multiple experiences with compounded HCG backed up by tests and symptoms. I finally switched to Pregnyl after a low lab result and had a 400 point swing in TT. I don't want to bad mouth the compounding pharmacies it's just been my experience that I get a more consistent product by paying more for the pharmaceutical grade HCG.

 

[Gman86]

Hey stx358, I tried private messaging you but it said you can't receive them. I know you said you don't want to bad mouth any compounding pharmacies, but I was just wondering if you have ever used Empower's HCG before, and if so, how did it work for you.

I recently had to switch to Empower's HCG due to Pregnyl being discontinued and being difficult to get/ more expensive. The curious cat in me obviously wants to know all the HCG brands you've used lol, but if you're not willing to divulge that info, I understand.

Also, when you say "First I was a dramatic responder to HCG. My TT jumped from 600 to 1200 when I added 150 IU/day to my 100 mg of test cyp q 3.5." What brand of HCG were you using to get that jump, was it Pregnyl?

And last question lol, are you using an AI at the moment? Sorry for all the questions, we're just in a similar situation, and both have high SHBG, so this info helps me more than you know. It just saves me a lot of time to learn from others, opposed to finding everything out the hard way for myself. Thanks so much in advance.

 

[Gman86]

I just started using Empower's HCG, and haven't gotten blood work on it yet. When I do I will 100% make a post about it though.

But as far as switching to Defy, you can still get Pregnyl with Defy. They just charge $25 to send out prescriptions to local pharmacies. So if you want to get Pregnyl at a pharmacy near you, you just pay $25 and they will send the prescription for Pregnyl there. They send it with enough refills to last you 3 months. I was using Pregnyl the whole time I've been with Defy up until about 2 weeks ago. Defy has been nothing short of amazing, in my experience. Best decision I ever made as far as my health goes. Couldn't be happier with them.

And I made a post about whether there is a difference with testosterone injections in regards to compounding and pharmaceutical brands. Consensus was there is absolutely no difference. I personally use Empower's testosterone and am very happy with it. Very easy to draw up and inject, and my numbers came back a lot higher than I thought they would on just 105mg test/ week (total), and 1,000iu Pregnyl HCG/ week (total). I was injecting both EOD, and the morning prior to my injection total testosterone was 1855.

 

[galaxy]

Thanks good to know Gman

 

[stx358]

Sorry for the delayed response Gman - I only check the board about once a week. I have no idea why I can't receive PMs! As for your questions I don't mind answering them at all. My initial experience with HCG was using a compounded product but I don't know where it came from. I purchased it from my testosterone mill. It worked fine. The issue was consistency. That is why I switched to Pregnyl and I have not had consistency issues since.

As for the AI I have avoided using them and will continue to avoid even though my E2 is in the 50's. I have zero high E2 symptoms which makes me wonder if a high E2 is just my normal state. I have read every post on here concerning guys using AIs and the negative posts outweigh the positive posts by a landslide. Plus I think men just tend to have a negative connotation associated with high E2 which is largely mythical. Rather than boring people by describing what I look like I will just say that anyone who ever saw me or met me would never associate me with high estrogen levels.