Anastrozole effects in the brain

[Jucaro]

It's true that aromatase inhibitors operating via competitive inhibition can be less effective in the intratesticular environment due to the much higher concentration of testosterone, typically an order of magnitude greater than serum levels. HCG acutely stimulates aromatization in Leydig cells, while also increasing intratesticular testosterone. This combination makes for a source of estradiol that is resistant to inhibition. The overall effect depends on what fraction of total estradiol is created instratesticularly. This reference cites a figure of 20% for typical males. With this figure it would seem as though serum estradiol could still be influenced significantly. However, I can envision individual cases in which hCG use increases the fraction of estradiol created intratesticularly, perhaps significantly. In these instances aromatase inhibitors such as anastrozole might indeed appear to be weak. The outcome would also be undesirable if local estradiol production in areas like the brain is crushed even as serum levels appear to be ok.

(Moving this to a new thread since it is a different topic)

I am harping on this as I was doing pretty well on TRT with less than 100mg Testosterone Cypionate once a week plus 250IU HCG twice a week. Strong libido, good erections, etc. At that time, if I took 5mg cialis I could feel the effect for 3 days, so I was using 5mg cialis a week (Friday) to have a very happy weekend...
Everything changed when we decided we wanted a child, then I started taking more HCG (initially 250 IU EOD) and my libido started to fade as well as my response to cialis. I tried Clomid with HCG it was a disaster and I stopped. I recently tried tamoxifen with HCG and it also ended giving me deep depression and erectile dysfunction that didn't respond even to cialis.
Anastrozole with HCG is better for me, but I can't seem to be able to set a dose and stick to it without losing libido over time.
Now I realize that anastrozole can also affect the brain by inhibiting aromatase inside the brain...
I guess it is dose related and more evident when given 1mg per day as for breast cancer.
But I woul like to better correlate Anastrozol to control E2 produced by HCG, with minimal impact or no impact to the brain....

Frontiers | Cognitive Effects of Aromatase and Possible Role in Memory Disorders

Diverse cognitive functions in many vertebrate species are influenced by local conversion of androgens to 17β-estradiol (E2) by aromatase. This enzyme is hig...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[Phil Goodman]

Don’t want to hijack the thread and am interested to hear others thoughts on the effects of anastrazole in the brain.

Kind of interested in your progression with HCG and decline of libido. I was dialed in really good with 100 mg test(divided 3/week) and 1,000 HCG(divided 2/week). However, I recently switched to an HCG from a different compounded and have noticed a decrease in libido. Admittedly there has also been an increase in stress from life, but I also wonder if the anxiety is from a stronger HCG. Perhaps I should try dropping the dose down? I’ve pretty much just attributed the change to stress, but if others found that dropping HCG down helped I may try that approach for a few weeks and see how it goes. Just don’t want to go making protocol changes for no reason if I can ride it out and adjust(and it does seem to be getting a little better).

 

[Jucaro]

Don’t want to hijack the thread and am interested to hear others thoughts on the effects of anastrazole in the brain.

Kind of interested in your progression with HCG and decline of libido. I was dialed in really good with 100 mg test(divided 3/week) and 1,000 HCG(divided 2/week). However, I recently switched to an HCG from a different compounded and have noticed a decrease in libido. Admittedly there has also been an increase in stress from life, but I also wonder if the anxiety is from a stronger HCG. Perhaps I should try dropping the dose down? I’ve pretty much just attributed the change to stress, but if others found that dropping HCG down helped I may try that approach for a few weeks and see how it goes. Just don’t want to go making protocol changes for no reason if I can ride it out and adjust(and it does seem to be getting a little better).

Are you interested in fertility? If you are not, you could use less HCG. I was doing pretty well on 250 IU twice a week plus testosterone, but I was interested only to keep my testicles size.
My nightmare began when incresed HCG dose for fertility and then started messing around with Clomid / Tamoxifen / Anastrozole

 

[solothesensei]

Anastrazole makes me feel mentally terrible at any dose (even half of a quarter pill). Always gave me "low E2" feelings of depression.

A bit unconventional but you could simply try a few drops of transdermal DHT when you feel E2 peaking from the HCG. Very fuss-free, dose-adjustable, and it simply works.

Alternatively taper the HCG down to 450iu, 400iu, etc until it doesn't cause you any more issues.

 

[Jucaro]

Anastrazole makes me feel mentally terrible at any dose (even half of a quarter pill). Always gave me "low E2" feelings of depression.

A bit unconventional but you could simply try a few drops of transdermal DHT when you feel E2 peaking from the HCG. Very fuss-free, dose-adjustable, and it simply works.

Alternatively taper the HCG down to 450iu, 400iu, etc until it doesn't cause you any more issues.

I was perfect with 250 IU every 3.5 days. But now We want fertiity, so what I actually need is more HCG, but it carries bigger problems with bigger doses.....
I do not tolerate Clomid, no Tamoxifen any more, anastrozole not that bad but difficut...

 

[3DMission]

@Jucaro I’ve been where you’re at and it was a very hard road to go down that I never ever want to go down again. I never should have messed with AI or Tamoxifen, that stuff should ONLY be used if you have serious high estrogen side effects.

What kind of serious high estrogen side effects were you having that warranted AI or Tamoxifen?

I regained fertility after years of testosterone use through HCG monotherapy in very high doses, upwards of 2,000-3,000 IU’s every couple days. Yes my estradiol levels went up pretty high, but as long as your not growing boobs and no other SERIOUS side effects, then it’s worth it to temporarily regain fertility. Do not use testosterone, that’s working against you with testicular atrophy. It’s takes 3-4 months for your sperm cycle to regenerate, so you have to be patient.

When I took an AI, it sent me to severe depression, it was very challenging, not just depressing but mood & energy loss, feeling of blah, no libido and struggled with ED. This was at even very low doses of Ai. Unfortunately it takes a while to purge AI from your system and lose its effects from crashing your estradiol. I’m talking at least 6 weeks, and longer till fully feeling yourself again. AI’s are very dangerous, I’m shocked doctors so casually play around with them. I would take high estradiol any day over low e.

HCG is pretty safe, you won’t experience as great effects of T therapy, but it will be enough to feel good, have libido, and restore fertility. Avoid any other drugs if possible and deal with the high estradiol symptoms as long as their not serious. Do not take an AI just because your bloodwork says your E is high. Not necessary. This is an art, not just science, you can’t make decisions just based off numbers.

One benefit of high E is extremely sensitive nipples, like orgasmic sensation. That I miss!!!

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Jucaro]

@Jucaro I’ve been where you’re at and it was a very hard road to go down that I never ever want to go down again. I never should have messed with AI or Tamoxifen, that stuff should ONLY be used if you have serious high estrogen side effects.

What kind of serious high estrogen side effects were you having that warranted AI or Tamoxifen?

I regained fertility after years of testosterone use through HCG monotherapy in very high doses, upwards of 2,000-3,000 IU’s every couple days. Yes my estradiol levels went up pretty high, but as long as your not growing boobs and no other SERIOUS side effects, then it’s worth it to temporarily regain fertility. Do not use testosterone, that’s working against you with testicular atrophy. It’s takes 3-4 months for your sperm cycle to regenerate, so you have to be patient.

When I took an AI, it sent me to severe depression, it was very challenging, not just depressing but mood & energy loss, feeling of blah, no libido and struggled with ED. This was at even very low doses of Ai. Unfortunately it takes a while to purge AI from your system and lose its effects from crashing your estradiol. I’m talking at least 6 weeks, and longer till fully feeling yourself again. AI’s are very dangerous, I’m shocked doctors so casually play around with them. I would take high estradiol any day over low e.

HCG is pretty safe, you won’t experience as great effects of T therapy, but it will be enough to feel good, have libido, and restore fertility. Avoid any other drugs if possible and deal with the high estradiol symptoms as long as their not serious. Do not take an AI just because your bloodwork says your E is high. Not necessary. This is an art, not just science, you can’t make decisions just based off numbers.

One benefit of high E is extremely sensitive nipples, like orgasmic sensation. That I miss!!!

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you for your wise advice, with which I totally agree.
My main problem with high estradiol is low libido and venous leak. I have thought it is a problem of vascular damage, however I have also verified that when I have my testosterone and estradiol levels in order, the venous leak stops, so it is a functional problem induced by estrogens. Another proof of this is that cialis and viagra solve the problem, although lately with the increase in the dosage of HCG, I am also having to increase the doses of Cialis and viagra, even having to combine it cause daily cialis alone is not enough at this moment with the change of protocol. I am not on testosterone any more but increased the dose of HCG. Now I am only on 500 IU every other day, and to be monotherapy and achieve fertility I should go up to at least 1000 IU three times a week. I'm not really chasing numbers, I'm just trying to function at an acceptable level until I get my wife pregnant, but fearing I'll do irreparable harm on muyself.
I definetly can't take clomid or tamoxifeno: I turn asexual and deeply depressed. Anastrozole makes me feel much better for a while but eventually I get depressed as well and unexisting libido.
I took blood sample today to see my numbers with the current HCG dose, then i'll probably go to next step to 1000 IU 3 times a week and see how I do and repeat blook work again after a month on the higher dose. I fantasize that with a higher dose of HCG I can have higher levels of testosterone and be better, despite the higher levels of estradiol.

 

[Jucaro]

One benefit of high E is extremely sensitive nipples, like orgasmic sensation.

Same here. I didn't know it could happen, but my wife found it out and now she is addicted to my nipples, she loves the reaction... Lol.

 

[3DMission]

@Jucaro You’re welcome! One important piece I forgot to address - how are you diluting your HCG? How many ml of water to amount of IU’s in your mix?

HCG monotherapy requires much higher doses to achieve normal T levels. It still won’t feel like T Cyp does, but it’ll be enough to function until she gets pregnant. I don’t think you have to worry about irreparable harm, the body is pretty resilient and this is short term. This is speaking for personal experience of going from T monotherapy with zero sperm count to then CLOMID monotherapy to have our first child, then T monotherapy to zero sperm again, then HCG monotherapy to have our second child, then DAILY T Cyp + 300 IU’s 3x week of HCG to maintain testicular size and keep sperm count at a modest 8 million only to accidentally conceive our THIRD child. Lol.

After years of roller coaster trials & doctors, I’ve finally found (thanks to this site of experts) the routine that works for me and I’ve never felt better!

How you mix your HCG is important, what’s your protocol?

 

[3DMission]

Same here. I didn't know it could happen, but my wife found it out and now she is addicted to my nipples, she loves the reaction... Lol.

YES!!!! I truly miss it. Absolutely incredible. I had no idea this was even possible for men. Just goes to show you how incredibly powerful hormones are. Wow now we get a sense of what women feel in their nipple, WOW! Enjoy it while it lasts bro!

 

[Jucaro]

how are you diluting your HCG?

I use recombinant HCG, Ovitrelle brand. It is a pen with 250 mcg (equivalent to 6500 IU) in 0.5 ml.
I use a 0.3 ml syringe, it's about 130 IU per hundredth of a ml.

 

[Jucaro]

what’s your protocol?

At this right moment I am only in HCG and suplements. Yesterday I had blood test to see my numbers on 520 IU HCG EOD. I am waiting for results, but today started with HCG 1040 IU 3 times/week, will do lab again in one month.
Weeks ago I tried adding Proviron and felt much better, but after a couple of weeks stopped cause read about possible testicular damage from it.

 

[Gman86]

I use recombinant HCG, Ovitrelle brand. It is a pen with 250 mcg (equivalent to 6500 IU) in 0.5 ml.
I use a 0.3 ml syringe, it's about 130 IU per hundredth of a ml.

Do u mind if I ask where u buy the Ovitrelle from?

 

[Jucaro]

Do u mind if I ask where u buy the Ovitrelle from?

I am in Spain, Here what we have is Ovitrelle.

 

[Jucaro]

Got labs results...
protocol: HCG (Ovitrelle) 520 IU M-W-F (two weeks before, I was taking proviron and tamoxifen)

Total Testosterone: 584 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 13,00 pg/ml (5.60 - 27)
DHT: 0,48 ng/ml (0,143 - 0,842)

E2 37 pg/ml (not sensitive, but since it over-estimate E2, actual E2 could be lower than 37 pg/ml)

LH - 0,10 mIU/ml (0.4 - 82)
FSH : 0,15 mIU/ml (1.30 - 138)

SHBG: 22,9 nmol/L (13,5 - 71,4)

Cholesterol: 166 mg/dl (<200)
HDL: 45 mg/dl (>40)
LDL: 96 mg/dl (< 150)
TG: 125 (40 - 150)

HB - 16,4 g/dl
Hcto: 49,1%

----------------
Even having had lower T levels and higher E2, with exogenous testosterone I used to have much stronger libido and I need much less or no cialis or viagra.
There must be something else with HCG, other than just testosterone and E2 levels which interferes with libido and erectile function. Otherwise HCG would be more successful as monotherapy, but it isn't. Few people can stick on it...
On the other hand, apart from the low libido and poor erectil funtion on HCG, I feel mentally and physically very well with HCG.

Now I doubled HCG (Ovitrelle) dose to 1040 IU M-W-F. I'll stay free of everything else, especially anastrozole or any other kind of E2 control. Only will be using Sildenafilo as when needed (not even daily cialis), and I will have lab test again in one month and see how it is by then..

 

[3DMission]

@Jucaro If you were seeing my doctor, I know she would want you on even higher doses of HCG for monotherapy. You also need to wait at least 6 weeks for blood work on a new routine. Sorry to say, but residual effects of the AI can last a couple months, so just because you don’t feel 100%, I wouldn’t blame that on all on HCG. You’ve been pumping an AI and tamoxifen into your body. That’s some serious stuff. It’s gonna take a while for that to fully get out of your system and the effects go away. It takes 4 months for you to regain fertility, for the new sperm cycle to regenerate, so no rush anyways. I know it sucks, but this is a time you have to be patient and remain consistent with your protocol and stay away from AI/Tamoxifen entirely. Keep in mind this is only temporary. So high dose HCG and in 4 months you can start trying for a baby and then as soon as y’all conceive then you can go back to adding T Cypionate. However, it’s my personal recommendation that your wait until she completes her first trimester of pregnancy before you add T back in, just in case she loses the baby for some reason. Then you don’t have to start from scratch again.

 

[Jucaro]

@Executive7
I had been Ai-free for years, I set a testosterone range where I felt comfortable (75 - 100 mg/w T.Cyp) plus 260 IU hcg twice a week.

At the time, my sperm count wasn't zero to begin with, but the qualitative sperm test showed a faint fertility line, and direct microscopic observation (at home) showed lots of moving sperm...

The problem started the moment I added more HCG. I first went to 260 UI EOD and the immediate result was less libido and need for more PDE5i. I didn't add any Ai yet, but it got worse over the months. Then at 500 IU EOD I felt even worse and after a few months I tried Clomid which was a disaster, recently tamoxifen was apparently ok at first but also killed libido and caused depression after a couple of weeks. Anastrozole was not that bad, I feel better with a good libido at first but 2 weeks later I start a rollercoaster ride with libido and mood.
I finally stopped exogenous testosterone and was down to just 500 IU of HCG, I felt myself crash as the exogenous testosterone washed out of my system, but then spontaneously felt much better spontaneously. TT was not bad at 500 IU 3 times a week.

Interestingly, now on hcg monotherapy of 1000IU 3 times a week, libido is very weak but present, testicles are larger, scrotum is fuller, penis rests larger most of the time, but I fail to get spontaneous firm erections at midnight nor in the morning, just a soft tumescence...

50 mg of sildenafil fixes it the night it is needed....

I don't know what my T level is at 1000 IU HCG, but I don't really feel the symptoms of high E2 like I've learned to identify before (bloating, red face, high blood pressure, mental dullness...). In fact, I feel great, optimistic, with a deep mental focus... concentration, motivation, all day with a high level of energy. Only problem: very weak libido, larger resting penis that doesn't want to have erections spontaneously...

My conclusion is that there is more than just T and E2 levels that influence libido and erections while taking HCG.

When I get high E2 from exogenous testosterone it is completely different (and worse).

this is a time you have to be patient and remain consistent with your protocol and stay away from AI/Tamoxifen entirely

That for sure...

she would want you on even higher doses of HCG

€€.€€ is the most limitating factor

 

[Gman86]

@Executive7
I had been Ai-free for years, I set a testosterone range where I felt comfortable (75 - 100 mg/w T.Cyp) plus 260 IU hcg twice a week.

At the time, my sperm count wasn't zero to begin with, but the qualitative sperm test showed a faint fertility line, and direct microscopic observation (at home) showed lots of moving sperm...

The problem started the moment I added more HCG. I first went to 260 UI EOD and the immediate result was less libido and need for more PDE5i. I didn't add any Ai yet, but it got worse over the months. Then at 500 IU EOD I felt even worse and after a few months I tried Clomid which was a disaster, recently tamoxifen was apparently ok at first but also killed libido and caused depression after a couple of weeks. Anastrozole was not that bad, I feel better with a good libido at first but 2 weeks later I start a rollercoaster ride with libido and mood.
I finally stopped exogenous testosterone and was down to just 500 IU of HCG, I felt myself crash as the exogenous testosterone washed out of my system, but then spontaneously felt much better spontaneously. TT was not bad at 500 IU 3 times a week.

Interestingly, now on hcg monotherapy of 1000IU 3 times a week, libido is very weak but present, testicles are larger, scrotum is fuller, penis rests larger most of the time, but I fail to get spontaneous firm erections at midnight nor in the morning, just a soft tumescence...

50 mg of sildenafil fixes it the night it is needed....

I don't know what my T level is at 1000 IU HCG, but I don't really feel the symptoms of high E2 like I've learned to identify before (bloating, red face, high blood pressure, mental dullness...). In fact, I feel great, optimistic, with a deep mental focus... concentration, motivation, all day with a high level of energy. Only problem: very weak libido, larger resting penis that doesn't want to have erections spontaneously...

My conclusion is that there is more than just T and E2 levels that influence libido and erections while taking HCG.

When I get high E2 from exogenous testosterone it is completely different (and worse).


That for sure...


€€.€€ is the most limitating factor

I wonder if the HCG is increasing other downstream hormones, like progesterone, pregnenolone and/ or DHEA, and may be counteracting the high E2 levels more so than on test. Prog is known to inhibit E2, so thinking the HCG is increasing downstream hormones and making the high E2 levels feel more tolerable. I know when I was on HCG monotherapy (2000iu’s/ week) it would increase both my progesterone and DHEA levels. Not sure about preg levels. Don’t think I ever tested it while on HCG mono

 

[MIP1950]

(Moving this to a new thread since it is a different topic)

I am harping on this as I was doing pretty well on TRT with less than 100mg Testosterone Cypionate once a week plus 250IU HCG twice a week. Strong libido, good erections, etc. At that time, if I took 5mg cialis I could feel the effect for 3 days, so I was using 5mg cialis a week (Friday) to have a very happy weekend...
Everything changed when we decided we wanted a child, then I started taking more HCG (initially 250 IU EOD) and my libido started to fade as well as my response to cialis. I tried Clomid with HCG it was a disaster and I stopped. I recently tried tamoxifen with HCG and it also ended giving me deep depression and erectile dysfunction that didn't respond even to cialis.
Anastrozole with HCG is better for me, but I can't seem to be able to set a dose and stick to it without losing libido over time.
Now I realize that anastrozole can also affect the brain by inhibiting aromatase inside the brain...
I guess it is dose related and more evident when given 1mg per day as for breast cancer.
But I woul like to better correlate Anastrozol to control E2 produced by HCG, with minimal impact or no impact to the brain....

Frontiers | Cognitive Effects of Aromatase and Possible Role in Memory Disorders

Diverse cognitive functions in many vertebrate species are influenced by local conversion of androgens to 17β-estradiol (E2) by aromatase. This enzyme is hig...

www.frontiersin.org

Was HCG added because of low sperm count?

 

[3DMission]

@Jucaro thats great news! Your testes increased size seems to indicate it’s working. Your goal was to conceive, so you’re on the right track. Sure, you may need a little extra help to perform, but the core focus here is increasing your sperm count and quality. Once you conceive, you can go back to T and decrease HCG. I know it’s tough, but just hang in there!