HCG: How much is too much and is there a too much?

[liftingheavy220]

Hi everyone,

I’ve been on TRT since 2017 and have been on and off with my use of HCG. When I started TRT I was told to never go above 500ius of HCG per day otherwise it could cause desensitized leydig cells. I’ve talked to a few doctors who said that this is nonsense and they have their younger patients who are on TRT doing 1000 ius every other day with no issues.

I’ll admit that I haven’t been following any new findings or done much research on HCG since I first started TRT, but I would like more experienced members of this forums give their take, as well as any doctors.

1. Is there a limit to how much HCG one can take per week/ per day?


2. Can HCG be taken indefinitely with no breaks at a dose of say of 2000ius+ total per week?

3. At what point is there diminishing returns regarding the use of HCG with men on T?

 

[fifty]

500iu eod seems to be the commonly accepted top-end as part of a trt program.

 

[Flrock]

Following this for more info.

I've been using hcg every 3.5 days at 500iu each, and my testicles only slightly came back. I increased to m/w/f at 500iu and they came back to how they used to be in a matter of weeks. I cut back to my original dose of 500iu twice a week and the ball pain and shrinkage set in again. Curious about the 500iu x3 times a week dose.

 

[liftingheavy220]

500iu eod seems to be the commonly accepted top-end as part of a trt program.

But why is 500ius the top end? For fertility protocols some guys are injecting 3000ius every other day. Are there any studies that show that 1000ius is unsafe per injection vs 500ius? I know that more doesn’t necessarily equal better but at the same time what is the point where more becomes dentrimental?

 

[liftingheavy220]

Following this for more info.

I've been using hcg every 3.5 days at 500iu each, and my testicles only slightly came back. I increased to m/w/f at 500iu and they came back to how they used to be in a matter of weeks. I cut back to my original dose of 500iu twice a week and the ball pain and shrinkage set in again. Curious about the 500iu x3 times a week dose.

Interesting, I wonder if it’s the dose or the frequency that gives you the fullness and takes away the pain? Have you tried 250ius three times a week?

 

[Vince]

Best HCG Dose for Men on TRT: Two Studies That Used HCG with Testosterone

 

[fifty]

But why is 500ius the top end? For fertility protocols some guys are injecting 3000ius every other day. Are there any studies that show that 1000ius is unsafe per injection vs 500ius? I know that more doesn’t necessarily equal better but at the same time what is the point where more becomes dentrimental?

Top end as part of trt protocol (ex: with test). I do not know of any studies showing higher doses are unsafe.

 

[Vince Carter]

But why is 500ius the top end? For fertility protocols some guys are injecting 3000ius every other day. Are there any studies that show that 1000ius is unsafe per injection vs 500ius? I know that more doesn’t necessarily equal better but at the same time what is the point where more becomes dentrimental?

Its just what is typical in TRT, a dose that achieves the goal of not inducing organ failure of the testes through being shutdown. Different objectives have different dosing and isn't necessarily a long term prospect like TRT is treated. You see differing doses in fertility, and even HCG mono therapies because of that. More becomes detrimental wherein Estrogen is a problem through that stim of the testes. That point varies wildly from guy to guy...some guys can't tolerate HCG, at all, some use a few hundred iu per week, and some use upwards of 1000+....who knows where that point is unless you try.

 

[californiaconan]

A bit of an offshoot question for anyone regarding HCG & their optimal dosage: has anyone experienced what they perceive as excessive cortisol production / weight loss / strange side effects when adding HCG to their Testosterone regimen?

This may be a topic for another thread, but I’m experiencing the strangest side effects/bizarre fluctuations with HCG. I love it because it helps my mood and energy level tremendously, but it also, for lack of a better/more scientific explanation, seems to send one or more hormones into overdrive causing rapid weight loss (muscle - not the good kind) and a seriously deleterious effect on my physique (seems to effect my tendons/ligaments and changes the way my muscles feel/contract.. I know, strange and hard to explain). I’m speculating that it’s something to do with cortisol (perhaps a pregnenolone steal?), but honestly I have no clue.

Curious if anyone else has had similar issues with it and what they did/how they problem solved it to address it. I was originally supposed to do 500iu every other day, but that cause a host of issues, so I went to 500iu every 3rd day (no luck), then 200iu every other day (no luck), then 200iu every 3rd day (no luck), then 500iu once a week day before injection.. etc. etc. You get the point. I’m currently trying 100iu every other day - so far it’s not causing as many problems but the benefits are now starting to drop off a little as well haha.. damn frustrating!

To recap: any advice or insights on this troublesome but essential part of TRT is much appreciated

 

[Nelson Vergel]

The max dose of hCG is determined by how much you can tolerate without water retention.

This table shows the usual doses. TTh: TRT

AAS: anabolic androgenic steroids

SA: Sperm analysis

 

[Flrock]

Thanks for that graphic, Nelson. I've been solid on this protocol for over 2 years now. It wasn't until I added the HCG 3x a week though, that I felt the full benefits. I only lowered it I was unsure of overuse, and became partially symptomatic with elevated e2 (a small amount of pimples on my shoulders). I'll increase back to that amount as that's what actually provided the fullness in my testicles (it was nice to see them actually hanging down after 2 years), and a true sense of well being.

Next steps will be to dial this in at a 3x/week frequency. My goal is to not have to use an ai. Nice thread OP.

 

[liftingheavy220]

A bit of an offshoot question for anyone regarding HCG & their optimal dosage: has anyone experienced what they perceive as excessive cortisol production / weight loss / strange side effects when adding HCG to their Testosterone regimen?

This may be a topic for another thread, but I’m experiencing the strangest side effects/bizarre fluctuations with HCG. I love it because it helps my mood and energy level tremendously, but it also, for lack of a better/more scientific explanation, seems to send one or more hormones into overdrive causing rapid weight loss (muscle - not the good kind) and a seriously deleterious effect on my physique (seems to effect my tendons/ligaments and changes the way my muscles feel/contract.. I know, strange and hard to explain). I’m speculating that it’s something to do with cortisol (perhaps a pregnenolone steal?), but honestly I have no clue.

Curious if anyone else has had similar issues with it and what they did/how they problem solved it to address it. I was originally supposed to do 500iu every other day, but that cause a host of issues, so I went to 500iu every 3rd day (no luck), then 200iu every other day (no luck), then 200iu every 3rd day (no luck), then 500iu once a week day before injection.. etc. etc. You get the point. I’m currently trying 100iu every other day - so far it’s not causing as many problems but the benefits are now starting to drop off a little as well haha.. damn frustrating!

To recap: any advice or insights on this troublesome but essential part of TRT is much appreciated

I experience those sides only when I’m over medicated on thyroid medication? How are your thyroid levels. I’ve also heard that HCG can raise free T3 and free T4 levels.

 

[liftingheavy220]

The max dose of hCG is determined by how much you can tolerate without water retention.

This table shows the usual doses. TTh: TRT

AAS: anabolic androgenic steroids

SA: Sperm analysis

View attachment 7698

Thanks Nelson!

 

[M.J]

I started with 250iu EOD as monotherapy HCG, didn't notice much a little increase in libido, then I increased it to 500 iu EOR, noticed larger testicles, lab show no significant increase in T or E. so started TRT with 500iu EOD. as I know it wont increase E.
Doc. recommended going 1000iu EOD as per Dr (Schultz ?) cant get the name right should be well known fertility Doc. I am ok with increasing it if it doesn't effect my E so will do so slowly after I get my Correct T Dosage.

 

[Cataceous]

There is a dose of hCG that stimulates maximum testosterone production. Going above this dose doesn't only fail to produce additional testosterone; it causes lower serum testosterone. See this paper, for example.

... increased exposure to rhCG induces higher and then lower testosterone concentrations ...

Worse yet, the higher hCG concentrations probably continue to increase estradiol. Fortunately the hCG doses for maximum testosterone production are usually going to be above the relatively small amounts used along with TRT.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Read this:

Does HCG promote excessive aromatization while on TRT?

 

[Wolverine]

I read often about the concern with HCG and Estrogen. How about HCG's increasing of progesterone? At 300ius twice a week my progesterone level was twice the top range (.1 being the top and I was at .2). Seems that most men get elevated progesterone when taking HCG, yet you don't hear much about it.

 

[Gman86]

I read often about the concern with HCG and Estrogen. How about HCG's increasing of progesterone? At 300ius twice a week my progesterone level was twice the top range (.1 being the top and I was at .2). Seems that most men get elevated progesterone when taking HCG, yet you don't hear much about it.

Increased prolactin as well. I’ve had much higher levels of E2 now on TRT than while on HCG mono, but on TRT have zero nipple sensitivity, and on HCG mono had itchy nipples so bad I would scratch them until they bleed, and had gyno forming. I never had prolactin tested, so it’s all theoretical, but I’m pretty sure my issues were due to increased prolactin. Could of been due to increased progesterone I guess too, but I’m leaning towards prolactin. Again, all theoretical, based off of my experience. Just something to keep in mind and monitor, along with E2 and progesterone.

 

[Cataceous]

... Seems that most men get elevated progesterone when taking HCG, yet you don't hear much about it.

I guess my testes didn't get the memo. On 270 IU hCG EOD I was still at 0.1 ng/mL, nearly the bottom of LabCorp's scale. I agree it's worth testing to make sure it's not high or low.

 

[M.J]

Interesting, I will check my prolactin and progesterone levels in my next lab to see what 500eod is doing to them.
Dr told me usually people older than 35 don’t see much benefits from HCG. One thing strange was while I was on HCG alone I had one or two days where both t and e increased, made me think if something was off in the meds or injection style (I did sq)
Didn't have time to check that just moved to trt.