Ditch your AI now - you don't need it!

[dbossa]

I'm a long time lurker and haven't posted much (perhaps even never) but I felt I should contribute something in return:

I have very mild gyno that I've had most of my life. As soon as my E2 goes up it starts getting sore. That's when I USED to take an arimidex and it would go away. This time around I did not take an arimidex. It got sore and I thought, "High E2! But don't panic!". It stayed sore for a few days and gradually began to subside on its own as my body adjusted. So now, guess what? No AI and no high E2 symptoms and I'm taking more T than ever before. Not to mention, I feel WAY better than before. Just let your body adjust and it will go away on its own!

 

[maxadvance]

yeah, until it doesn't

 

[dbossa]

Not following what you mean. Can you elaborate?

I was taking 160mg a week. Daily injections SubQ. 0.25mg of Arimidex twice a week. Once I let my body adjust I'm now taking 210mg a week. No symptoms of any sort. Sleep better, more energy, better erections, my back acne is 80% better, better cognition, joint pain is gone, and any aches and pains I had before are also gone. This AI was a poison to my body.

 

[HealthMan]

Don’t try to extrapolate your experience to everyone else. I am glad you don’t need an AI but some people do. AI is not a poison when used correctly and when needed. Thanks for sharing your experience. But it is only that: your experience

 

[maxadvance]

I'm just saying you're being premature in your diagnosis. An ai won't make gyno worse, or give you gyno on its' own. You never said that you were medically diagnosed with gyno, but if you were there is a possibility it will come back harder than before irregardless of you taking an ai or not. If you weren't, you may never have had it and it was all in your head. Don't hate me, I'm just telling you that the ai isn't the reason for your gyno. And I don't like ai's either, so it's got nothing to do with how I personally feel about them.

 

[dbossa]

I think you may have misunderstood me. I've had the gyno most of my life (and medically diagnosed). When I started on this TRT journey, it got worse. I immediately got on the AI and that kept the gyno under control and I stayed on permanently after that. My point was that I could have dropped my T dose for a bit, dropped the AI completely, waited for the symptoms to eventually subside, and then slowly upping the T again. That's precisely what I did and precisely what the end result was. Now I'm not taking any AI whatsoever, and my mild gyno is back to its pre TRT state. PLUS I feel significantly better all around. I will NEVER take an AI ever again.

 

[dbossa]

Healthman... Everything I'm reading online these days is basically saying that most guys do NOT need an AI contrary to the nonsense that we were all lead to believe. I was a believer in AI. I tried it their way. Guess what? They were right. I believe we were all misled in that department.

 

[Gman86]

Appreciate the anectodal experience. Obviously everyone is different, but I think stories like this really help a lot of guys who are on the fence about using an ai or not. I’m one of them. I think I’m going to give the no ai thing another try once my bloodwork from last week finally comes in. Thank you for posting this.

But I also agree with the others, there are guys on here that without a doubt need an ai to feel optimal, so everyone is truly different. But I love hearing stories like yours, because I agree with you, there’s probably plenty of guys out there that would benefit from cutting out their ai, and just haven’t given it a fair shot.

 

[HealthMan]

Healthman... Everything I'm reading online these days is basically saying that most guys do NOT need an AI contrary to the nonsense that we were all lead to believe. I was a believer in AI. I tried it their way. Guess what? They were right. I beleive we were all misled in that department.

AIs are overly prescribed for sure. And in a lot of cases AIs are not needed. Dose reduction, more frequent injections, etc can take care of elevated estradiol. However some people do need them and they are not poison. I am happy you were able to stop taking an AI (i did the same thing and i also had a gyno problem like you). But don’t generalize and say: “hey stop your AI and wait cause your body will adjust and symptoms will go away”. This was true for you but it would be a recipe for disaster for many men on TRT. Thats all.
Not sure for how long your gyno has been stable but if not for too long don’t celebrate yet.

 

[Gman86]

Healthman... Everything I'm reading online these days is basically saying that most guys do NOT need an AI contrary to the nonsense that we were all lead to believe. I was a believer in AI. I tried it their way. Guess what? They were right. I beleive we were all misled in that department.

Did you go through a short time after stopping the ai where you felt worse? Or did you start feeling better everyday once you discontinued the ai? And how long did it take for you to feel as good as you’re feeling today after stopping the ai?

Also, what was your E2 and SHBG while on the ai? I assume you haven’t tested it yet while off the ai.

 

[dbossa]

I wouldn't post this if it had just been a few days, I assure you. Keep in mind, I used to be a guy who thought an AI was essential. The thing is, not only do I not have symptoms but stuff I've had for years has vanished. Guys are keeping E2 way too low and its simply detrimental to your health. It just is! AI is old news. I challenge anyone who claims that they absolutely need the AI to lower their dose temporarily and drop the AI. HOWEVER, if they are taking 500mg+ a week, that might be a different story. I'm talking about TRT levels.

 

[dbossa]

I felt worse. Most definitly did. Took about 2 weeks until things began to improve. My body had to get things figured out. Everything had to get balanced. It did. I absolutely assure you that I am finally feeling all the benefits of TRT that everyone spoke about now that I've ditched the AI.

While I was taking 0.25mg twice a week, my E2 was 30. How much is it now, you ask? My answer is, who gives a shit? I feel better. Way better. What difference does a number make at this point?

 

[dbossa]

SHBG was 20 every single time I tested it btw. Don't think that makes a difference either.

Also, daily shots are WAY WAY WAY better than anything else I've tried. Subq.

 

[HealthMan]

I wouldn't post this if it had just been a few days, I assure you. Keep in mind, I used to be a guy who thought an AI was essential. The thing is, not only do I not have symptoms but stuff I've had for years has vanished. Guys are keeping E2 way too low and its simply detrimental to your health. It just is! AI is old news. I challenge anyone who claims that they absolutely need the AI to lower their dose temporarily and drop the AI. HOWEVER, if they are taking 500mg+ a week, that might be a different story. I'm talking about TRT levels.

What you don’t understand is that some guys over aromatize. And in some case the dosage reduction needed to get rid of high E2 symptoms is too large and the benefits of TRT would be lost. In this case an AI is needed. I agree this should be the exception not the rule. But what you fail to understand is that everyone is different and sometimes an AI is needed for a successful TRT protocol

 

[dbossa]

I had to get my TRT as low as 100mg to avoid E2 symptoms. Anything higher and the gyno would swell up so I would IMMEDIATELY take the AI. I never once tried to just let my body figure it out. A few weeks. I doubt you've ever tried this yourself. Madness you'd think, correct? I used to think the same. Now I'm a believer. Problem is, nobody wants to take a few weeks to feel worse before they feel better so they're going to keep taking their AI. I'm absolutely convinced of this. But that's fine. You guys can disagree with something you've never tried. Check out the latest research. Check out the latest anecdotal evidence. Things are changing. You'll see!

 

[dbossa]

Now taking 30mg a day for a total of 210mg weekly. No AI. No DHEA. No pregnenolone. Dropped all that shit. Testosterine only. Best thing I've ever done.

 

[HealthMan]

I had to get my TRT as low as 100mg to avoid E2 symptoms. Anything higher and the gyno would swell up so I would IMMEDIATELY take the AI. I never once tried to just let my body figure it out. A few weeks. I doubt you've ever tried this yourself. Madness you'd think, correct? I used to think the same. Now I'm a believer. Problem is, nobody wants to take a few weeks to feel worse before they feel better so they're going to keep taking their AI. I'm absolutely convinced of this. But that's fine. You guys can disagree with something you've never tried. Check out the latest research. Check out the latest anecdotal evidence. Things are changing. You'll see!

Ok Dbossa. You are the new TRT expert. Pointless to keep this conversation going. Enjoy your success

 

[Gman86]

SHBG was 20 every single time I tested it btw. Don't think that makes a difference either.

Also, daily shots is WAY WAY WAY better than anything else I've tried. Subq.

Awesome, thanks for the info! My SHBG is at least double yours, and mine is stickier than most. I can tell this because to get my free T to right about the top of the range, my total needs to be around 1600. So I’m confident that I might be able to drop my ai. I’ll give it a shot. Worst case scenario I just go back on the ai. More to gain, than to lose, imo.

So you inject 30mg of test cypionate sub Q daily? No HCG? That’s one difference between us that might complicate my situation. I use HCG.

 

[dbossa]

I took HCG temporarily because I needed to get my wife pregnant. It introduced a few problems (really bad back acne) and a few other things. Once my wife got pregnant I got off it and I noticed a few weeks later that I felt better off it than I ever felt on it. If you need to stay fertile, take it. If you don't, I wouldn't bother with it. Tell me honesty that you feel WAY better with hcg. I doubt that you can.

 

[dbossa]

Healthman I most certainly will! Over three years on TRT and I've finally got it figured out on my end. Much success to be enjoyed for sure! My wife is also really enjoying my success too!