4 weeks off TRT - still needing AI to combat E2 anxiety

[TonyG]

Hey guys,

Looking to get some input. I am 34 years old, low SHBG (17-19), 160lb, athletic build. I've spent the last year experimenting different protocols to find one where I feel good/normal. Surprisingly, the closest I can get to feeling fine is on a single injection frequency, with AI every other day. It seems I have an insane sensitivity to E2, almost as if where my Testosterone level sits is irrelevant.

I have tried daily low dose injections without AI, that put my trough E2 at 30, which is unbearable anxiety. The AI stops the panic attack within a few hours, everytime, like clockwork.

Attached are my labs from my most recent protocol @ 140mg Test cyp/ single injection, 0.5mg Anastrozole EOD, 500IU HCG 3x week.

I've worked with some members on this forum along with multiple doctors. My problem is I never feel "normal", always anxiety from High E or Low E. I can never find that "sweet spot". Despite E2 tests week after week while adjusting my AI dose at 2 week intervals to find the sweet spot, I decided to stop TRT.

I slowly weaned down the Testosterone dosage while doing 2000IU HCG 3x /week for 4 weeks. My last injection of both was 4 weeks ago. The issue I'm having now is I'm still aromatasing which is giving me the high E anxiety / panic, forcing me to take a very low dose of AI (0.1mg) to stay stable.

For those of you who are unaware, if you search on other forums like Reddit, you will find plenty of guys like me who have this sensitivity to Estrogen which in high levels disrupts serotonin receptors, especially receptor 5HT1A which can cause a myriad of nasty psychological symptoms (like what i'm experiencing).

We need Anastrozole to stay on TRT. The entire reason I came off was to stop chasing E2 and let my body naturally find it's sweet spot. However here I am still needing the AI to lower the E. It's called Estrogen rebound, where sometimes even the day after taking 0.1mg of anastrozole, it will still spike back up and I will need to take another pill.

I spoke with Dr. Saya yesterday and he says it's too soon to look at options for fixing this, as it takes 8 weeks for your natural levels to come back to normal.

I would like to get people's input on this - let me know what you guys think.

Thank you

 

[RickB]

How many hours between taking the AI and the anxiety subsiding? I've been curious about how fast my AI is lowering my E2, so that I can get an idea of how timing affects my lab results.

It's also claimed by some people that AI's won't do anything to lower your present level but just stop it from increasing (and then it would lower with time). Some also claim there is no rebound.

There are just so many questions when it comes to AI.

 

[TonyG]

How many hours between taking the AI and the anxiety subsiding? I've been curious about how fast my AI is lowering my E2, so that I can get an idea of how timing affects my lab results.

It's also claimed by some people that AI's won't do anything to lower your present level but just stop it from increasing (and then it would lower with time). Some also claim there is no rebound.

There are just so many questions when it comes to AI.

It works very fast, within 2-3 hours the anxiety/panic subsides. After 6-8 hours it's like i'm a different person. The peak of the AI is 24 hours after taking it, however it begins doing it's job right after taking it.

 

[Gman86]

@TonyG did u ever try using prescribed progesterone? Prog not only has some estrogen inhibiting properties, but it also converts into allopregnenolone, which is like the body’s natural Valium/ Xanax, and has been known to help with anxiety. So by adding it u could kill two birds with one stone

 

[TonyG]

@TonyG did u ever try using prescribed progesterone? Prog not only has some estrogen inhibiting properties, but it also converts into allopregnenolone, which is like the body’s natural Valium/ Xanax, and has been known to help with anxiety. So by adding it u could kill two birds with one stone

Never tried prog, but yesterday Dr. Saya actually recommended Pregnenalone. He said a similar thing about it, that it is a pre-cursor to allopregnanolone which is great for anxiety. Should I try the Preg or the Prog?

 

[Gman86]

Never tried prog, but yesterday Dr. Saya actually recommended Pregnenalone. He said a similar thing about it, that it is a pre-cursor to allopregnanolone which is great for anxiety. Should I try the Preg or the Prog?

I would personally try progesterone, especially in ur shoes. I’ll attach an image that shows all the pathways that pregnenolone can take. One of them includes raising estrogen. Which I’m ur case wouldn’t be good. Problem is, we have no way of knowing what pathway(s) pregnenolone is going to take. So if I were u, I would personally just take progesterone, which as u’ll see in the image will make sure u get increased allopregnenolone, since prog is a direct precursor to allopregnenolone

I would have defy prescribe u the pharma brand injectable prog that empower sells, and inject it subQ every night before bed, or a few hours before bed. I personally just do it right before I’m about to go to sleep usually

 

[TonyG]

I would personally try progesterone, especially in ur shoes. I’ll attach an image that shows all the pathways that pregnenolone can take. One of them includes raising estrogen. Which I’m ur case wouldn’t be good. Problem is, we have no way of knowing what pathway(s) pregnenolone is going to take. So if I were u, I would personally just take progesterone, which as u’ll see in the image will make sure u get increased allopregnenolone, since prog is a direct precursor to allopregnenolone

I would have defy prescribe u the pharma brand injectable prog that empower sells, and inject it subQ every night before bed, or a few hours before bed. I personally just do it right before I’m about to go to sleep usually

Awesome, I understand exactly what you mean, and have become somewhat familiar with the pathways you outlined. Do you recommend any oral form of Prog? Not looking to get on more injectable medicine right now, LOL.

 

[Gman86]

Awesome, I understand exactly what you mean, and have become somewhat familiar with the pathways you outlined. Do you recommend any oral form of Prog? Not looking to get on more injectable medicine right now, LOL.

Haha I totally understand. And no, unfortunately I personally have only done research on and have experience with injectable progesterone. But I’m sure there’s other guys that can definitely help u out in regards to finding a preferable oral form, and what dosage might be best to start with

 

[Systemlord]

It's called Estrogen rebound, where sometimes even the day after taking 0.1mg of anastrozole, it will still spike back up and I will need to take another pill.

I've experienced this and it's no joke, it feels like a heart attack. Maybe you could try a suicide inhibitor (aromasin) which doesn't have the rebound effect.

 

[Charliebizz]

What’s the lowest weekly dosage of testosterone you’ve tried ??? Sorry if I missed it have you tried trt without hcg? I know plenty of people (including myself) that hcg is an absolute no go. I also know plenty of guys who feel much better on way lower doses of t.

 

[TonyG]

What’s the lowest weekly dosage of testosterone you’ve tried ??? Sorry if I missed it have you tried trt without hcg? I know plenty of people (including myself) that hcg is an absolute no go. I also know plenty of guys who feel much better on way lower doses of t.

The lowest weekly dosage i've tried is 56mg / week, daily low dose injections. I've done with and without HCG. HCG makes no difference for me.

 

[Charliebizz]

The lowest weekly dosage i've tried is 56mg / week, daily low dose injections. I've done with and without HCG. HCG makes no difference for me.

I know this might sound strange but I had a ton of side effects with test cyp. I switched to enanthate and my experience is much better. For some reason cyp crushes my cortisol levels and enanthate didn’t. I have multiple labs to back it up too. I can’t explain the mechanism though lol