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Weekly shallow IM (deep Sub-Q ).Yes. I agree that this study still needs to be improved.
When you control your hematocrit with 70 mg a week, do you inject once a week or E3D .. with a little more frequency? Thank
Weekly shallow IM (deep Sub-Q ).Yes. I agree that this study still needs to be improved.
When you control your hematocrit with 70 mg a week, do you inject once a week or E3D .. with a little more frequency? Thank
Yes. I agree that this study still needs to be improved.
When you control your hematocrit with 70 mg a week, do you inject once a week or E3D .. with a little more frequency? Thank
Re-read the post:
What Benefits with Different Injection Frequencies?
I’ll posit this has to do with both dose and frequency. If I remember correctly trying to trace back the kinetics of testosterone on hepcidin suppression and to EPO, it’s first order. Once you reach saturation, you can’t make more RBCs. If your dosages are too high then daily frequency ain’t...forums.t-nation.com
I'd argue at 70 mg/week with my clearance rate that it wouldn't make a difference whether you are doing ED or weekly frequency. My argument based on my response (TT vs TC dose) was that dosing less frequently may allow you to get away with higher effective weekly dose WRT Hct by dosing weekly instead of daily.
I haven't done the definitive trial to prove so it was just conjecture. As @Cataceous mentioned, primary driver would be weekly effective dose and trying to find balance between symptom resolution vs elevated Hct.
There are clearly many camps with some thinking physiologic TT/free T should be adequate and others who argue running supra-physiologic is needed for some. In the latter camp, elevated Hct is argued to be harmless many times. The later camp's system didn't work for me.
OK thanks. Which needle do you use for Deep Subq?Weekly shallow IM (deep Sub-Q ).
Thank you Vince. With the time and adjustment for more frequent injection you managed but to get to that how were your protocols that did not work well for the control of hematocrit?I was able to control my HCT, once I went to daily injection. I've not donated blood for, I'm guessing 4 plus years. After donating every 8 weeks for 2 years. I may have stabilize my HCT, because of longevity? Or daily injections? Or maybe a combination of both?
Twice a week injections.Thank you Vince. With the time and adjustment for more frequent injection you managed but to get to that how were your protocols that did not work well for the control of hematocrit?
Did you try injections once a week?Twice a week injections.
No, I never did once a week injections.Did you try injections once a week?
Ok Vince. ThankNo, I never did once a week injections.
No, I never did once a week injections.
That research suggests that more frequent injections are better. However, even 20 mg EOD can be too much for some guys. That's 7 mg per day of testosterone, above the average production for healthy young men. I've experimented with taking half as much and still did not see a return of hypogonadal symptoms. If testosterone is causing high hematocrit then there must be a dose low enough where this doesn't occur. If this dose is so low that benefits are lost then I hypothesize that creating diurnal variation in serum testosterone levels may help.
I have quarterly tests for over 3 years. Zero effect of lowering hematocrit. Graphs and studies don’t always translate to real life.
The graph is my data. Yes, I am a real human, not an AI (artificial intelligence). We have two very different experiences with dose response of TRT on Hct.
Hello Cataceous. 150 mg of enanthate (25 Monday + 25 Tuesday + 50 Thursday + 50 Friday) and taking the blood test on Saturday after 24 hours of the last injection is expected to increase TT by how many ng? ThankThat research suggests that more frequent injections are better. However, even 20 mg EOD can be too much for some guys. That's 7 mg per day of testosterone, above the average production for healthy young men. I've experimented with taking half as much and still did not see a return of hypogonadal symptoms. If testosterone is causing high hematocrit then there must be a dose low enough where this doesn't occur. If this dose is so low that benefits are lost then I hypothesize that creating diurnal variation in serum testosterone levels may help.
I’ve done just about every injection frequency possible.Hello everybody. When I changed my protocol from Nebido to cypionate, I read that for those with low SHBG 12, the most recommended would be 20mg EOD, but with this protocol my hematocrit went up, BP increased, I had to do phlebotomy and ended up giving myself time to recover ferritin. I know that some people can resist and carry on with their protocol, but with these side effects I couldn't.
I read several articles and topics about TRT and hematocrit control, but many people did not finish the topics saying how they managed to control or ended up giving up TRT and that Undecanoate would be the ester that least caused erythrocytosis. My own experience also says this because I spent 1 year in Nebido and the hematocrit was controlled, but it is a very long ester and any adjustment is time consuming.
If you are sensitive like me to the cypionate, could you share your protocol and your experience of how you did it to control the hematocrit and follow the TRT? If you do phlebotomy, how do you replace the iron so that your ferritin is around 70?
About the TRT protocol I read about the suppression of hepcidin and EPO and that what causes the increase in hematocrit would be more frequent doses such as DOE or ED since it would have little oscillation in the valley and thus our organism would spend more time producing RBCs and that the protocol, for example, 100 mg E7D with the cypionate the organism would stay longer ¨without producing¨ RBCs because there was a greater oscillation in the valley. How to reach the dose / frequency balance of the injections? What is your peak and your ideal valley? I'll leave one of the links where I read it if anyone wants to.
Does Injection Frequency Affect Hematocrit?
I switched from 76mg once a week to 38mg twice a week 2 months ago and my HCT did indeed rise a bit in last weeks blood. I only have 1 blood draw on the new protocol, but for whatever it’s worth RBC, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit, Platelets all rose higher than my previous 5 blood tests on various...forums.t-nation.com
As this subject has many variables and that each person reacts differently to the frequencies and doses of testosterone I decided to post this topic.
This forum has helped a lot around the world and this topic should help a lot of people who are starting in TRT and who sometimes give up due to lack of information.
Thank you for participating. Good weekend to everyone.
Thanks. Which protocol did you feel better? Is your shbg low?I’ve done just about every injection frequency possible.
For me, high TT/FT = high HCT. Regardless of whether I’m injecting daily, EOD, MWF, E3.5D, weekly.
In my case, it really is that simple. Run high levels, expect side effects.
Re SHBG: My personal experience has been that SHBG levels, like side effects, are somewhat dose dependent. For me, higher overall dose combined with more frequent injections lowers my SHBG. Point being, for me, SHBG is somewhat fluid so I cannot accurately answer your question in any way that might be applicable to you/your situation.Thanks. Which protocol did you feel better? Is your shbg low?
I agree with you. I also believe that depending on the shbg, the levels of Free Testerone can increase a lot with an even lower level of Testosterone.Re SHBG: My personal experience has been that SHBG levels, like side effects, are somewhat dose dependent. For me, higher overall dose combined with more frequent injections lowers my SHBG. Point being, for me, SHBG is somewhat fluid so I cannot accurately answer your question in any way that might be applicable to you/your situation.
Weekly wasn’t for me, but the other injection frequencies all had pros/cons.
I think the more important thing to focus on is overall dose, not injection frequency (within reason of course).
To be clear, I don’t think having relatively high levels is automatically a bad thing, and some guys (myself included) need to in order to get any benefits from TRT.
That said, I accept that when my levels are high, I should expect some acne, high E2, high HCT, etc. Seems like people do a lot of tail chasing trying to mitigate side effects...but T is like any other medication - at a certain dosage, most people will experience side effects.
Thanks NelsonHere is a good read:
High Hematocrit Caused by TRT: How to Lower and Manage it
Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is one of the most effective ways to combat low testosterone levels, but it's vital that you understand the risks associated with the treatment. As with any form