My HcG trials

[Gman86]

@JetSpyder - any updates on your acne? My current protocol is 125mg of Sustanon E5d and been running for just over a year. I started getting back acne about 7 months in and recently it's spread to chest and some on neck and forehead. I never suffered with Acne in my youth so a real shock as thought it would be one side effect I could avoid. Taking antibiotics and a cream (duac) but want to stop.

My Dr has recommended moving to Cypionate, reducing to 100mg E5d as Sustanon is supposedly notorious for acne. At the same time he has also introduced 250IU of HCG 3 times a week on my request, it's purely for cosmetic reasons not fertility (drop to 2 x a week when size restored)

After reading your story I'm now really paranoid about HCG.

I'm thinking of splitting Cypionate 3 times a week as well so easy to do both on same days. Does MWF mornings work for anyone?

Sorry for all the questions

I just wrote a reply to someone about their acne a few mins ago. I’ll copy and paste it here. Hopefully it helps ya out

It’s debatable whether high E2 can cause acne or not. Some say it has nothing to do with it, but I’ve just seen way too many anecdotes of men using an ai and their acne completely going away. I had pretty bad inner arm acne not too long ago, and it completely went away after starting an ai. I stopped the ai recently and the acne hasn’t returned, so not sure if it would of ended up going away without the ai or not. I just know that very shortly after starting the ai my inner arm acne completely cleared up. We also know that high DHT can cause acne. So one of the first things I would do if I were u is check ur progesterone level. Most men on test have very low progesterone levels, due to most of our prog being produced in our testicles, and our testicles being shut down by taking exogenous test. Prog controls the conversion of test into E2 and DHT. If u do in fact have low levels of prog, like most of us do on TRT, I would get ur prog levels optimized

U can also try supplementing with zinc. It’s supposed to be a natural ai. I’ve also read that it can inhibit DHT

The #1 thing I would do tho is increase ur retinol intake. The most popular and effective acne medication is accutane, which is just very high dose vitamin A. Unless ur eating organs, like our ancestors did for most of our evolution, ur gonna be like the majority of the population and be deficient in retinol. The best source of it is beef liver. So if u want to clear up acne, the #1 thing u can do is either eat grassfed beef liver, or take a desiccated grassfed beef liver supplement, as try to increase ur retinol intake from other food sources as well

 

[Dunc]

Thanks for the response, appreciate it.

E2 is an interesting one, my E2 was really low before treatment. It could be a factor. I'm due bloods in about a month (to check on new treatment plan), will see if high.

Does Progesterone increase with HCG or does it require additional supplementation? Not sure it is an option with UK trt.

I take zinc daily and also have a soap which contains it.

Never heard about Retinol so will do some more reading.

I'd like to introduce things one at a time so I can work out what helps and what doesn't. Which one would you recommend first?

 

[Gman86]

Thanks for the response, appreciate it.

E2 is an interesting one, my E2 was really low before treatment. It could be a factor. I'm due bloods in about a month (to check on new treatment plan), will see if high.

Does Progesterone increase with HCG or does it require additional supplementation? Not sure it is an option with UK trt.

I take zinc daily and also have a soap which contains it.

Never heard about Retinol so will do some more reading.

I'd like to introduce things one at a time so I can work out what helps and what doesn't. Which one would you recommend first?

Adding things one at a time is a perfect way to implement things. How many mg’s of zinc do u take each day?

HCG can absolutely increase progesterone levels. It just depends on the person, and how responsive they are to HCG, and obv their dose. Pregnyl HCG used to raise my prog levels quite a bit, but now empowers’s HCG doesn’t raise my prog levels one bit. Oral pregnenolone also has the ability to raise prog levels. And then of course u could raise prog levels using straight exogenous prog.

Retinol is just the preferable form of vitamin a for humans. Basically just the animal source of vitamin A. One of the best vitamins to decrease acne, and almost everyone is deficient. It’s also important for a ton of other processes of the body. It was the first vitamin ever discovered for a reason

 

[Dunc]

I take 3 tablets each night (see pic).

I've been awake most of night worrying about E2. I have spots on chest area and thought I had some coming on my left pec. They almost feel like a bruise and nothing is showing, now wondering if start of gyno. Going to speak to Doc to see about an AI.

 

[Fortunate]

I have a few data points related to both hCG and acne. I have been on hCG 100IU daily for a long time. Occasionally, I decide I don't want to inject every day, I go off it and eventually decide I am better off on it. It's an overall sense I get and not always a specific reason.

I typically use Pregnyl. For a while, I used Empower's compounded and noticed with certainty, it was not as effective. I usually use the same vial for around six weeks. I suspect the potency starts to wane around then. On my last vial, I let it run to eight weeks for no particular reason. Today, I mixed a new vial and after injecting experienced a noticeable bump in energy with a subsequent crash like feeling later in the day. The other thing I noticed was a significant increase in oily skin. My logical conclusion is that the "old" hCG was no longer potent and the brand new vial is fully efficacious, and therefore what I am noticing is directly related to hCG.

I am prone to acne. Always a struggle. But for days leading up to the new vial, my skin felt normal. Not oily. Today, I feel a substantial difference.

I am fairly confident this is hCG related. What I don't know is whether or not the acne is a result in T levels, E2 levels, DHT levels or some direct mechanism. Of all these, if I had to guess, I'd say E2. I can't imagine T levels would jump enough from one injection to make a difference this quickly.

On the other hand, I always assumed elevated E2 from hCG results form aromatization of T. If so, wouldn't T itself from T enanthate/cypionate before more likely to flare acne than hCG? I will have to do a little research, as I could be wrong about aromitization pathway.

Just thought I'd share what I noticed.

 

[Cataceous]

...
On the other hand, I always assumed elevated E2 from hCG results form aromatization of T. If so, wouldn't T itself from T enanthate/cypionate before more likely to flare acne than hCG? I will have to do a little research, as I could be wrong about aromitization pathway.
...

HCG independently stimulates aromatization in Leydig cells.[R] Presumably LH does too, but the half-life of LH is quite short. HCG, on the other hand, can stay around for a long time at high levels, thus allowing it to drive up estradiol beyond what's expected from serum testosterone alone.

 

[Fortunate]

HCG independently stimulates aromatization in Leydig cells.[R] Presumably LH does too, but the half-life of LH is quite short. HCG, on the other hand, can stay around for a long time at high levels, thus allowing it to drive up estradiol beyond what's expected from serum testosterone alone.

After posting, I found a few references on this. Thanks for the follow up. What is a Anastrazole‘s activity at the Leydig cell level? I know there are references on this already, but I am being lazy I believe there are different levels of activity peripherally versus in the Leydig cells?

 

[Cataceous]

... What is a Anastrazole‘s activity at the Leydig cell level? I know there are references on this already, but I am being lazy I believe there are different levels of activity peripherally versus in the Leydig cells?

Intratesticular testosterone levels are maybe an order of magnitude higher than serum levels. In this environment aromatase inhibitors are relatively ineffective—or at least the ones operating through competitive inhibition, such as anastrozole. I don't know if exemestane would fare any better. In any case, with anastrozole you run the risk of crushing peripheral aromatization before you even make a dent in intratesticular aromatization.

 

[Fortunate]

Intratesticular testosterone levels are maybe an order of magnitude higher than serum levels. In this environment aromatase inhibitors are relatively ineffective—or at least the ones operating through competitive inhibition, such as anastrozole. I don't know if exemestane would fare any better. In any case, with anastrozole you run the risk of crushing peripheral aromatization before you even make a dent in intratesticular aromatization.

Looks like I got myself a conundrum: I think I feel better on hCG, but the oil and acne are terrible. I may start playing with it to find the minimum effective dose.

 

[Dunc]

Looks like I got myself a conundrum: I think I feel better on hCG, but the oil and acne are terrible. I may start playing with it to find the minimum effective dose.

Looks like I got myself a conundrum: I think I feel better on hCG, but the oil and acne are terrible. I may start playing with it to find the minimum effective dose.

Please keep me posted on results. I've just started HCG today 250iu 3 x per week. I also moved to 100mg of Cypionate e5d as Dr thought Sustanon was cause of acne. Really hoping HCG doesn't make it worse

 

[andrewBwinter]

I did start taking citrulline about 2 weeks ago also for NO boost. I don't know if this has helped

Citrulline has a window of action and requires adequate hydration prior to taking it with, again, adequate fluids. The window starts about 45 minutes after consumption (slightly longer on a full stomach) and lasts for about 1.5 hours so timing is like Viagara if you are using it as a substitute for ED meds. You can also low dose it over the course of the day, even on off-gym days.

I will hunt for a post on another forum regarding amount, timing and dose dependance on body weight. They all factor in to the effectiveness, like any other OTC supplement.