Aromatization and T adjustment when using HCG

[dickielongate]

I am interested in adding HCG. I am a strong aromatizer, probably because my BF % is close to 30, with a lot of visceral fat vs subcutaneous. I have settled on 12.5mg exemestane/aromasin every day, with no sign of this being too much. EOD was not enough, and I now have better libido and mood.

As I understand it, HCG will likely improve mood and libido, but if I am correct, the aromatization in the testes resulting from injecting HCG will not be affected by my exemestane usage.

Is it likely there will be much raising of estradiol from taking 350IUs twice weekly of HCG? I am currently taking 150mg Sustanon per week, split into two doses. Should I reduce that when introducing HCG?

Thanks

 

[Systemlord]

If you are unable to get a good libido on TRT alone, then you are not dialed in and HCG isn't magically going to solve your problems, if anything HCG and exemestane will add to your problems.

Usually increasing injection frequencies lowers estrogen, smaller injections more often is a good trick to lower estrogen. Lower SHBG men tend to do best on ED and EOD dosing, even if SHBG were not low, multiple smaller doses usually lowers estrogen in just about everyone.

Do we know our SHBG levels?

 

[dickielongate]

At the last test, SHBG was 21 nmol/L, with the normal range given as 18-54, so I guess low normal. I don't understand how SHBG plays into this, so any insight you have is appreciated.

I asked for exemestane because my estradiol came back as 194 pmol/L (normal 41-159), and I never felt I had the results I should expect on TRT. Exemestane helps, because mood and libido were definitely improved.

I am willing to increase shot frequency above 2x per week. It gets hard to split the 250mg / 1ml vials of Sustanon into more than 4 with any accuracy. I've looked for 0.5ml syringes but they're not available.

 

[dickielongate]

I should add, I have the HCG, but I am reluctant to use it until I have a baseline balance of T:E

I do believe from experience and from reading that the AI is needed in my case to get that balance.

 

[Systemlord]

At the last test, SHBG was 21 nmol/L, with the normal range given as 18-54, so I guess low normal.

As I suspected, SHBG is on the lower end and twice weekly isn't optimal given your situation. SHBG being on the lower end, high normal Total T levels are not needed to achieve high normal Free T levels.

My SHBG is about the same and only need a Total T 500 to achieve Free T in the high normal ranges.

As far as spitting up your doses evenly four ways, practice equals perfection. It just depends on how bad you want to feel good. I feel best on 8-10mg cypionate every day and SHBG at the time was 22.

 

[fifty]

I get less estrogen spike (subjective) if I take hcg on a day before test.

 

[Rain27]

Sistemlord you took back trt?

 

[Rain27]

@Systemlord you when back therapy ?

 

[Rain27]

:enojado: tductor is bad

 

[Vince Carter]

the aromatization in the testes resulting from injecting HCG will not be affected by my exemestane usage.

This was part of a specific reason that I had switched to Exemestane as Anastrozole wasn't getting things well enough for me. It's a plausible line of thinking.

Though I don't recommend the HCG dose you've chosen, if your over converting to E I'd rather recommend something like 100-150iu twice per week and then titrate up a bit judging how you feel.

HCG will likely improve mood and libido

I think saying "likely" would be a real stretch; possible but unlikely.

 

[dickielongate]

As I suspected, SHBG is on the lower end and twice weekly isn't optimal given your situation. SHBG being on the lower end, high normal Total T levels are not needed to achieve high normal Free T levels.

My SHBG is about the same and only need a Total T 500 to achieve Free T in the high normal ranges.

As far as spitting up your doses evenly four ways, practice equals perfection. It just depends on how bad you want to feel good. I feel best on 8-10mg cypionate every day and SHBG at the time was 22.

I came to the conclusion to consider moving to daily or EOD a while back. Injection frequency doesn't put me off at all. Feels like the E response would be lower, and I heard with SC you get more out of the T shot vs IM. But provider argues against it, saying it's unnecessary.

No one has made the point you make about SHBG before, but I get the impression you prefer to promote the non AI route of E management, right? Perhaps when using exemestane it's less critical to have a lower dose and more frequency if it can be dialled in?

This was part of a specific reason that I had switched to Exemestane as Anastrozole wasn't getting things well enough for me. It's a plausible line of thinking.

Though I don't recommend the HCG dose you've chosen, if your over converting to E I'd rather recommend something like 100-150iu twice per week and then titrate up a bit judging how you feel.


I think saying "likely" would be a real stretch; possible but unlikely.

Fair enough. I am holding back either way on HCG for at least a little while as I try to get the ratio of T to AI dialled in from a subjective POV.

My point about aromatization of T triggered by HCG is I have read that while AI's knock out the aromatase in the body, they don't affect the process in the testes, hence HCG induced E is not under the control of AIs. I don't know if this is true or not, but I have read about people having immediate relief from crashed E by injecting 1000IUs of HCG, because this will produce some E directly in the testes regardless of what aromatase is circulating in the body.

I do find HCG attractive longer term, based on what Nelson says on activating upstream pathways having secondary functions. However I am fat (beer belly), and willing to consider that it might be harder to control E when introducing HCG. My hope is my aromatization will go down a fair bit once the belly's gone (I'm losing about 1kg per week, probably 10kg to go).

 

[Vince Carter]

Anastrozole which is the much more commonly used drug has some thought that in the testicular environment this AI is less effective. Exemestane, on this forum, has FAR less experience, I might be the only active member of this forum that is using or has used it. We don't know about Exem in the testes but I certainly buy in to the notion that a suicide AI could be more effective for a guy that aromatases a lot from the testes vs the action of Anastrozole.