HCG monotheraphy and libido

[piquet]

Dear All,

This is my first post so I initially want to thank you and Nelson for this wonderful site and community. It has been super beneficial stumbling to this site.

I have been on TRT for 20+ years. I think my pre TRT T levels were 200 or so. With TRT my T levels are 450.

Recently for reproductive purposes and to reverse testicular atrophy I swicthed to HCG. My doctor insists on a protocol that does not let me have TRT + HCG. So it is HCG mono-theraphy now.

I am taking 3 x 1500 IU HCG weekly. After more than a month on this protocol my T is 241, Estradiol is 15.9. More importantly my libido has tanked to virtually zero. It is not all bad as the testicular volume has increased and the testicles are hanging lower now.

Any ideas as to what is going on and how I can get my libido back?

I now Nelson's protocol calls for TRT plus a much lower dose of HCG. Will that make a difference in terms of T and how can I explain this to my doctor who is probably following some American Clinical Society (? not sure about the name) recommendation?

All responses appreciated.

 

[M.J]

Doctors use 1000 EOD for fertility, when I was trying hcg monotherapy I had the best libido experience with t 16 and e 22 non sensitive.

i am surprised your t is low in TRT and also in HCG what is the reference range ?

 

[Vince]

Here's a thread, I think you would be interested in.

Semen analysis results after adding FSH to TRT and hCG

 

[Vince Carter]

Spam reported

 

[Vince Carter]

Dear All,

This is my first post so I initially want to thank you and Nelson for this wonderful site and community. It has been super beneficial stumbling to this site.

I have been on TRT for 20+ years. I think my pre TRT T levels were 200 or so. With TRT my T levels are 450.

Recently for reproductive purposes and to reverse testicular atrophy I swicthed to HCG. My doctor insists on a protocol that does not let me have TRT + HCG. So it is HCG mono-theraphy now.

I am taking 3 x 1500 IU HCG weekly. After more than a month on this protocol my T is 241, Estradiol is 15.9. More importantly my libido has tanked to virtually zero. It is not all bad as the testicular volume has increased and the testicles are hanging lower now.

Any ideas as to what is going on and how I can get my libido back?

I now Nelson's protocol calls for TRT plus a much lower dose of HCG. Will that make a difference in terms of T and how can I explain this to my doctor who is probably following some American Clinical Society (? not sure about the name) recommendation?

All responses appreciated.

In most every case an HCG mono isn't going to work or amount to anything past cosmetic when they guy is primary Hypogonadal, the problem being the testes. No amount of HCG is going to overcome that. Do you know if you were diagnosed primary or secondary?

 

[Cataceous]

What's less widely known about hCG is that as doses get larger, at some point testosterone levels start to decline. This is why it's better to slowly titrate upwards from low doses. Starting from 4,500 IU per week, there's a good chance that lower doses would improve total T. Evidence for your doctor: Down-regulation models and modeling of testosterone production induced by recombinant human choriogonadotropin. | Semantic Scholar

 

[piquet]

In most every case an HCG mono isn't going to work or amount to anything past cosmetic when they guy is primary Hypogonadal, the problem being the testes. No amount of HCG is going to overcome that. Do you know if you were diagnosed primary or secondary?

Thank you for the infor Vince. I have secondary.

 

[piquet]

Doctors use 1000 EOD for fertility, when I was trying hcg monotherapy I had the best libido experience with t 16 and e 22 non sensitive.

i am surprised your t is low in TRT and also in HCG what is the reference range ?

The reference for T is 250-1000 (mine 450 with TRT 241 with HCG mono.)

I was using a generic equivalent to Axiron (under- arm). That thing doesn't really squirt a consistent amoutn and I was never super diligent about it. So maybe that is the cause for not having T higher.

 

[piquet]

Here's a thread, I think you would be interested in.

Semen analysis results after adding FSH to TRT and hCG

This is indeed a great thread. So my understanding of this protocol (and HCG + TRT for that matter) is one should start with HCG + TRT for fertility and T, then mix in FSH to up the sperm count. Adjust until one gets an acceptable result. Is this right?

Given that doctor's are not fully cooperating with patient's ideas and one can do a limited number of blood tests, what is a good procedure to find a reasonable mixture? It would be too silly to expect some established tables/charts to help with this since most doctor's are not knowledgeable. Is there anything close?

 

[piquet]

What's less widely known about hCG is that as doses get larger, at some point testosterone levels start to decline. This is why it's better to slowly titrate upwards from low doses. Starting from 4,500 IU per week, there's a good chance that lower doses would improve total T. Evidence for your doctor: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8ccf/02faafe274c11db935eb67381fb09656a884.pdf

Thanks for the article. It seems to capture too much HCG doesn't make a difference in T mention I saw that cited by Nelson: Testicle Size: Testosterone Injections vs hCG vs T gel, T stays low with high hcg but testis size goes up.)

Strangely enough, looking at Figure 5 of the article thatmodels T production per hcg dose, assuming the model is correct of course, my 1500 IU hcg every other day should generate close to maximal T. Also 500 IU every other day, which a lot of individuals in this site seem to like, is generating lower T. Maybe I am reading the graphs wrong?

In any case very informative.

 

[M.J]

What's less widely known about hCG is that as doses get larger, at some point testosterone levels start to decline. This is why it's better to slowly titrate upwards from low doses. Starting from 4,500 IU per week, there's a good chance that lower doses would improve total T. Evidence for your doctor: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8ccf/02faafe274c11db935eb67381fb09656a884.pdf

I for instance take 500 HCG EOD, it happens that I just got may lab test and my progesterone range is 0.16-.0.47 my results are 0.5.

when I had bad vials I used to get 0.16 which is the lowest range

 

[Cataceous]

...
Strangely enough, looking at Figure 5 of the article thatmodels T production per hcg dose, assuming the model is correct of course, my 1500 IU hcg every other day should generate close to maximal T. Also 500 IU every other day, which a lot of individuals in this site seem to like, is generating lower T. Maybe I am reading the graphs wrong?
...

In figure 5 the maximum T production for EOD injections is shown to occur at 1,000 IU, but we don't know whether the actual optimal dose is in the 500-1,000 range or the 1,000-2,500 range. It's not overly important, as in actual individuals the optimal dose may vary quite a bit. The main thing is to know that it's easily possible to take too much and have lower testosterone.

Generally those of us taking lower doses of 500-1,500 IU per week are using it as an adjunct to TRT and are more concerned about testicular volume and other possible benefits than a possible added boost in testosterone.

 

[Cataceous]

I for instance take 500 HCG EOD, it happens that I just got may lab test and my progesterone range is 0.16-.0.47 my results are 0.5.

when I had bad vials I used to get 0.16 which is the lowest range

Interesting that you get a significant boost in progesterone from hCG, whereas I get essentially none.

 

[M.J]

Interesting that you get a significant boost in progesterone from hCG, whereas I get essentially none.

Initially I got no results turn out all the boxes I got are bad vials, I changed my supplier and now I got results ! You need to make sure those vials are not damaged or something maybe not stored well, the guy told me you have two hours out the fridge but temperature here is crazy high like the highest world wide ! So I changed the supplier and I move them in cold boxes just to be safe and they work now !

 

[Cataceous]

Initially I got no results turn out all the boxes I got are bad vials, I changed my supplier and now I got results ! You need to make sure those vials are not damaged or something maybe not stored well, the guy told me you have two hours out the fridge but temperature here is crazy high like the highest world wide ! So I changed the supplier and I move them in cold boxes just to be safe and they work now !

I have four supporting measurements from a couple different years and I have confidence in the potency of the hCG.

 

[piquet]

I for instance take 500 HCG EOD, it happens that I just got may lab test and my progesterone range is 0.16-.0.47 my results are 0.5.

when I had bad vials I used to get 0.16 which is the lowest range

Thanks. I will get progesterone done and see what the results are. The main issues with having it low (Progesterone in Men: Symptoms & Benefits | Organic Facts) are not happening with me except of current low sex drive.

 

[piquet]

I have four supporting measurements from a couple different years and I have confidence in the potency of the hCG.

I will try to decrease and see what happens. It will be an issue to convince the dr to add trt and maybe fsh.

 

[3DMission]

I’m secondary, had zero sperm count and with HCG Mono-therapy we just gave birth to our healthy baby girl 8 months ago. My doc is amazing, she had me on high dosage to achieve fertility, 3,000 IU’s 3x week. Her theory was to flood the system to get the testes producing sperm and it worked like a charm. Once my wife was pregnant we waiting until pregnancy was viable and then I switched to .4 T 2X week and 300 HCG 2x week. Feeling great now and maintaining testicular size.

 

[ForeverMuscle]

TEST + HCG the way to go. IMO. (125mg week/4shots + 1000ius HCG/2 shots per week)

 

[piquet]

I’m secondary, had zero sperm count and with HCG Mono-therapy we just gave birth to our healthy baby girl 8 months ago. My doc is amazing, she had me on high dosage to achieve fertility, 3,000 IU’s 3x week. Her theory was to flood the system to get the testes producing sperm and it worked like a charm. Once my wife was pregnant we waiting until pregnancy was viable and then I switched to .4 T 2X week and 300 HCG 2x week. Feeling great now and maintaining testicular size.

Can you comment on your T levels pre and post HCG monotheraphy? How about libido?