Wasted Test in Syringe

[franksepe]

If I take .6ml twice a week 120mg of test. I waste almost .1ml but not quite with each shot. Am I suppose to fill the test to .7 or close to .7 to account for the loss? And I use a 18 guage to withdraw and then snap on a 25 guage. I use a 3cc syrgine. So I think i am even wasting more. I dont mind wasting it because I get it all for free but im not sure how I should measure it.

 

[codus2112]

Get .5ml (1/2" needle) 29-30 gauge insulin syringes.

 

[Vince]

Me too, I use Easy Touch 29 gauge 1/2" syringe for shallow IM injections no waste. I use them for testosterone and HCG.

 

[Weasel]

Me too, I use Easy Touch 29 gauge 1/2" syringe for shallow IM injections no waste. I use them for testosterone and HCG.

exactly this. No need to use giant syringes and needles.

 

[Vince Carter]

exactly this. No need to use giant syringes and needles.

and almost no waste.

 

[franksepe]

Yes but that still does not answer any of my questions. I dont want to change needles. I can afford to lose test. But how do i compensate the dosage in the syrgine?

 

[Vince]

Yes but that still does not answer any of my questions. I dont want to change needles. I can afford to lose test. But how do i compensate the dosage in the syrgine?

There's a good chance you will run short of the testosterone in the vial, and it can be a issue.

 

[FeelingLost]

If I take .6ml twice a week 120mg of test. I waste almost .1ml but not quite with each shot. Am I suppose to fill the test to .7 or close to .7 to account for the loss? And I use a 18 guage to withdraw and then snap on a 25 guage. I use a 3cc syrgine. So I think i am even wasting more. I dont mind wasting it because I get it all for free but im not sure how I should measure it.

Do you have a precice way to measure this loss or are you just guessing?

I inject two things at once HCG and Tcyp. The HCG goes in first so it flushes all T out of the syringe.
If you don't have two things to inject you could ad bac stat water say 10ml and that would flush your T from the needle.

hth

 

[Vince Carter]

Yes but that still does not answer any of my questions. I dont want to change needles. I can afford to lose test. But how do i compensate the dosage in the syrgine?

That would be precisely because no one here does things the way that you're insisting on doing it.

 

[Vince Carter]

Do you have a precice way to measure this loss or are you just guessing?

I inject two things at once HCG and Tcyp. The HCG goes in first so it flushes all T out of the syringe.
If you don't have two things to inject you could ad bac stat water say 10ml and that would flush your T from the needle.

hth

wow.

 

[Systemlord]

The syringes has already accounted for the waste.

 

[Deleted member 17030]

The syringes has already accounted for the waste.

I agree with this, but have no data to back it up.

I believe there is also something else in play here and that is what type vials someone is using. If it is the large 10Ml vial, then it makes sense to try and not waste any.

But in my case CVS Pharmacy only prescribes the small 1ml vials, so any waste saved is not much use as in .1ml left in the bottle? What good would that be .1ml? I would have to save 5 almost empty bottles and try to draw the drips and drops left in each little bottle.

I use 3cc syringes, 18 gauge to draw the prescribed .5ml, then after removing the needle from the bottle draw back on the syringe to pull back whats inside the 18 gauge needle, then swap to a 25 gauge needle, then do Intermuscular into the deltoids.

What have I wasted? A little in the head of the needle? I am getting the full 1Ml out of the bottle so it is what it is.
But yeah if I was using 10Ml vials I would be more concerned about waste.

 

[Deleted member 17030]

I wonder how much waste is actually in the head of the needle of a 3cc syringe? Anyone actually measured it? I think I can use my graduated burette I have to do that and find out.

 

[blitzen]

You have to test it yourself
Draw exactly 1ml out of a container > change the needle etc. and "inject" into another container and check if there is any loss
The container could be a 1ml syringe (no needle) and at the end you use this again and if the liquid level is not as before you know your loss (or a 0.5ml for easier accuracy)

 

[franksepe]

I read a thread on another forum allthingsmale and in there a guy actually emailed the BD syringe company and asked how much oil is wasted and they responded .07 in a 3 cc syringe.

And the reason I dont care if i waste test is that my doc prescribes me 200mg a week of it and i only take 120mg.

 

[MG123]

You are going to have what is called dead space using this type of system unless you purchase a low dead space syringe or use insulin needles. While the syringe does account for the dead space, and you are receiving your correct dose, as you have seen there is about .10mL being wasted. Even if you were to draw up .10mL of air and get it to the top of the syringe near the plunger and inject it after the oil to clear the needle and hub (which would be fine to do), you still would be "wasting" because you would be using over your prescribed dose.

You could draw up .10 or .07 less than you are prescribed, pull up the plunger to clear the 18g needle of contents (this is the oil that you are wasting) which will bring the amount of oil to your prescribed dose in the syringe and then pull .10mL of air into the syringe and get the bubble near the plunger. Then change to the other gauge you are using and push the oil down the new needle until you see a drop and then inject, allowing the bubble at the end to clear the dead space and thus giving you your full dosage with little waste and without going over your prescribed dose.

 

[MG123]

You are going to have what is called dead space using this type of system unless you purchase a low dead space syringe or use insulin needles. While the syringe does account for the dead space, and you are receiving your correct dose, as you have seen there is about .10mL being wasted. Even if you were to draw up .10mL of air and get it to the top of the syringe near the plunger and inject it after the oil to clear the needle and hub (which would be fine to do), you still would be "wasting" because you would be using over your prescribed dose.

You could draw up .10 or .07 less than you are prescribed, pull up the plunger to clear the 18g needle of contents (this is the oil that you are wasting) which will bring the amount of oil to your prescribed dose in the syringe and then pull .10mL of air into the syringe and get the bubble near the plunger. Then change to the other gauge you are using and push the oil down the new needle until you see a drop and then inject, allowing the bubble at the end to clear the dead space and thus giving you your full dosage with little waste and without going over your prescribed dose.

So in your case you inject 0.6 mL per injection. So draw up 0.53 mL. Pull back on the plunger after removing it from the vial to clear the 18g needle and the hub. You should now have 0.6mL in your syringe. Pull back on the plunger until you have 0.10mL of air in the syringe. Remove the 18g needle and put on smaller gauge needle. Ensure air bubble is near the plunger tip and then push plunger down to prime the needle with oil. You should now show about 0.53mL again in the syringe with the 0.07mL now in the dead space. Inject the oil with the air bubble being injected last which will give you the 0.53mL in the syringe and the 0.07mL in the dead space.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Dr. Justin Saya's comments a little over a year ago on this topic that is revisited every few months it seems.

"There is also an annoying force in physics - adhesion. It is estimated that approximately 0.3ml of the oil in a vial will NEVER be able to be removed as it "sticks" to the inside surface of the vial via adhesion forces.

We recently confirmed this when at Empower pharmacy by randomly taking a 5ml vial of T cyp off the shelf, the vials are filled by automated machine set at 5.6ml. We ended up drawing out 5.3ml exactly (despite the computerized filling to EXACTLY 5.6ml)."

Lastly, even with the SMALLEST and least wasteful syringes/needles (let's say 29G, 1/2" for example), there is STILL a small wastage with each injection unless air is used behind the oil to push it all through. The small wastage even with those syringes is on the order of 1.5-2 microliters (0.02ml or 2/100th of an ml). Over the course of 42 injections this would equate to a cumulative loss of 0.84ml (again unless air is filled behind the oil to push all out).

We are sending out a newsletter shortly to announce we are moving ALL patients whom are injecting BIW or more frequently to newer "Low dead-space" syringes to minimize wastage.

 

[Saul]

to the OP, this has probably been said already but Easy Touch insulin syringes are popular because they are inexpensive, easy to find, and low dead space. Also, consider drawing and injecting with a smaller needle and using the same syringe/needle to do both draw and inject. I like 28 gauge 1 ml syringe personally. Using an 18 gauge to draw is going to chew up your rubber stopper and then swapping needles can be a pain and take time.

 

[Systemlord]

Plan for the future, let's say you lose your insurance for awhile, your going to wish you didn't waste medicine. My Depo Test is overfilled 1mL to account for waste, it's going to add up over time. Waste not want not.