TRT & benzo withdrawal, please help.

[bixt]

None of this arguing about fasted bloods or ferritin or thyroid is going to help with the hell of long term benzo withdrawal. No vitamin is going to save you. None of you guys saying this have a clue about that. None of you have experianced seizures or major depression or have become suicidal so you really should not be doling out useless, unhelpful and frankly stupid advice. You are wasting time slapping mosquitos when theres armed robbers about to storm every window.

Im just spelling out the truth, hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Im just not sure anyone here with the exception of @Systemlord has any experience with benzo withdrawal.

Do the long and slow taper, consult the Ashton Manual, get advice from people who have actually gone through this. F*** endocrinologists, you need rehab my friend.

 

[sammmy]

The OP vitamin status is extremely poor and he has a test showing thyroid autoimmunity, which is consistent with his symptomatics. These are the foundations of his health.

Addressing those BEFORE attempting benzo withdrawal will probably make it easier and more probable to be successful.

 

[madman]

Hi all.

I'm in need of some advice please.
I'm a 49yr old male. 6ft and 189lbs. Always been incredibly active and used to do bodybuilding. Sadly the past 7+ years l started suffering from panic attacks, which has led to agoraphobia, as in totally housebound. I had a nurse from a private clinic come over to take my bloods. Testosterone and estrogen are low. We work in slightly different numbers, but they are 11.2Nmol for Testosterone which I think is about 260 in US numbers. I have also been trying to slower taper off my Valium that I'm prescribed. I put this question asking about TRT on a Facebook benzo withdrawal group, they said that TRT will make me really anxious and not to do it. My symptoms are.... Ultra low confidence, very high anxiety, agoraphobia, no motivation, almost no libido, can become tearful over stupid things..... This is coming from someone who spent over 20 years in demolition, so a very physically demanding job, and now I'm feeling like this.

Would TRT help or make things worse as in anxiety?

Thanks greatly in advance for any help or advice.

This is the issue I am addressing here!

As I stated previously not sure what was the main cause of your panic attacks but for all we know you may have very well been suffering from dismal FT levels the past 7 years which contributed to the anxiety.

Your FT levels are S**T plain and simple.

Recovering from the meds is not going to drive up your levels into a healthy range.

Abuse of opioids.....sure.

You are 49 years old.

Everything needs to be looked into thyroid/adrenals as dysfunction can lead to many issues.

 

[madman]

Hi all.

I'm in need of some advice please.
I'm a 49yr old male. 6ft and 189lbs. Always been incredibly active and used to do bodybuilding. Sadly the past 7+ years l started suffering from panic attacks, which has led to agoraphobia, as in totally housebound. I had a nurse from a private clinic come over to take my bloods. Testosterone and estrogen are low. We work in slightly different numbers, but they are 11.2Nmol for Testosterone which I think is about 260 in US numbers. I have also been trying to slower taper off my Valium that I'm prescribed. I put this question asking about TRT on a Facebook benzo withdrawal group, they said that TRT will make me really anxious and not to do it. My symptoms are.... Ultra low confidence, very high anxiety, agoraphobia, no motivation, almost no libido, can become tearful over stupid things..... This is coming from someone who spent over 20 years in demolition, so a very physically demanding job, and now I'm feeling like this.

Would TRT help or make things worse as in anxiety?

Thanks greatly in advance for any help or advice.

TRT & benzo withdrawal, please help.


Tackling the TRT part I have given you sound advice!

 

[bixt]

I have seen super fit teens who by the looks of it were not deficient in T or vitamins. Yet absolute horrendous and protracted withdrawals. Multiple rehab stays. Many will never be normal again.

I think the forum rules state a claim needs to be backed up by either scientific proof or personal experience.

Unless anyone has proof anecdotal or scientific of TRT alleviating benzo withdrawals they should not make any claims.

 

[madman]

Hi all.

I'm in need of some advice please.
I'm a 49yr old male. 6ft and 189lbs. Always been incredibly active and used to do bodybuilding. Sadly the past 7+ years l started suffering from panic attacks, which has led to agoraphobia, as in totally housebound. I had a nurse from a private clinic come over to take my bloods. Testosterone and estrogen are low. We work in slightly different numbers, but they are 11.2Nmol for Testosterone which I think is about 260 in US numbers. I have also been trying to slower taper off my Valium that I'm prescribed. I put this question asking about TRT on a Facebook benzo withdrawal group, they said that TRT will make me really anxious and not to do it. My symptoms are.... Ultra low confidence, very high anxiety, agoraphobia, no motivation, almost no libido, can become tearful over stupid things..... This is coming from someone who spent over 20 years in demolition, so a very physically demanding job, and now I'm feeling like this.

Would TRT help or make things worse as in anxiety?

Thanks greatly in advance for any help or advice.

No one is recommending TRT to address your issues with your current meds.

Your FT level is low and it needs to be addressed.

Coming off your meds needs to be addressed.

 

[sammmy]

The winning strategy in medicine is to start with the root problem, which in this case is the panic attacks. The origin of those was not explained - was it a bad experience or a change in body biochemistry. It is not smart to withdraw from benzos if they are protecting the OP from panic attacks and the actual cause for those has not been identified - it certainly aren't the benzos.

So the OP should get their general health in order FIRST before attempting a benzo withdrawal. There is a relation between thyroid problems and anxiety and panic attacks:

https://www.psycom.net/anxiety/thyroid-disease-and-anxiety

 

[madman]

None of this arguing about fasted bloods or ferritin or thyroid is going to help with the hell of long term benzo withdrawal. No vitamin is going to save you. None of you guys saying this have a clue about that. None of you have experianced seizures or major depression or have become suicidal so you really should not be doling out useless, unhelpful and frankly stupid advice. You are wasting time slapping mosquitos when theres armed robbers about to storm every window.

Im just spelling out the truth, hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Im just not sure anyone here with the exception of @Systemlord has any experience with benzo withdrawal.

Do the long and slow taper, consult the Ashton Manual, get advice from people who have actually gone through this. F*** endocrinologists, you need rehab my friend.

LMFAO!

Wasting my precious time even replying here but it is needed.

Striking a nerve that hits home!

Do you know everyones personal history when it comes to mental health?

Last time Im going to say this tread lightly on here before you go shooting off at the mouth!

You have no clue who has been diagnosed let alone suffers or f**king struggles with anxiety, major depression (MDD), bipolar, schizophrenia.

Let alone when it comes to TRT you should not be dishing out advice on here.

Coming from a guy who who has never done blood work let alone dabbles with that UGL gear.

Go kick your nonsense on one of those other dime a dozen so called men's health/HRT forums!

You already buried yourself on this forum!

Better yet toasted yourself inside and out!

 

[bixt]

You are a pathetic miserable old grandpa who has zero experience on the topic at hand yet wishes to have the last word. Well, you can have it.

Go ahead, ban me, delete me, I won't be back.

Good bye.

 

[granger]

ya benzo will lower your T so best to get off FIRST and see how your T is.. 260 may not be too bad if was in the afternoon so going off benzo may have u at 500-600 or so.. no way to know, but BEST to try that first as natural is always best as than u can be certain and not shut off natural production.

there are other hormones that are lowered by taking T.

get off benzo wait 7-8 months and see how you feel. than get a T test.

quick fixes are sometimes not the best even if Test seems like an answer to your prayers.

 

[bixt]

You already buried yourself on this forum!

Better yet toasted yourself inside and out!

One last thing before I log out for the last time. Do the math.

You have a post to like ratio of just 26.24%. I have one of 103.9% (more likes than posts).

so Im clearly not buried, clearly not toasted. People seem to like what I post more way than you.

Don't even both replying - I won't be checking back.

 

[loadtear]

LMFAO!

Wasting my precious time even replying here but it is needed.

Striking a nerve that hits home!

Do you know everyones personal history when it comes to mental health?

Last time Im going to say this tread lightly on here before you go shooting off at the mouth!

You have no clue who has been diagnosed let alone suffers or f**king struggles with anxiety, major depression (MDD), bipolar, schizophrenia.

Let alone when it comes to TRT you should not be dishing out advice on here.

Coming from a guy who who has never done blood work let alone dabbles with that UGL gear.

Go kick your nonsense on one of those other dime a dozen so called men's health/HRT forums!

You already buried yourself on this forum!

Better yet toasted yourself inside and out!

Hmm, the forum rules must be more like suggestions for some...LOL. I know I am guilty but they all deserved it.

2- You will not attack others--even if you strongly disagree with their views. You will use language that is respectful. You can disagree with postings but NEVER get personal in your rebuttal. This applies to posts on the group or to private messages to the person directly. WE WILL ONLY PROVIDE ONE WARNING. REPEAT OFFENDERS WILL BE REMOVED AND BANNED FROM THE GROUP.

come on @madman, be the change!

 

[loadtear]

have one of 103.9% (more likes than posts).

Also @BigTex and @FunkOdyssey are to be celebrated on this as well. Superstars of the like to post count ratio. Well done guys. See you at MesoRx or wherever the next adventure unfolds. My current 200 mg/week androgen usage is driving me insane like those 90s after school specials. Be careful kids!

 

[loadtear]

Hi all.

I'm in need of some advice please.
I'm a 49yr old male. 6ft and 189lbs. Always been incredibly active and used to do bodybuilding. Sadly the past 7+ years l started suffering from panic attacks, which has led to agoraphobia, as in totally housebound. I had a nurse from a private clinic come over to take my bloods. Testosterone and estrogen are low. We work in slightly different numbers, but they are 11.2Nmol for Testosterone which I think is about 260 in US numbers. I have also been trying to slower taper off my Valium that I'm prescribed. I put this question asking about TRT on a Facebook benzo withdrawal group, they said that TRT will make me really anxious and not to do it. My symptoms are.... Ultra low confidence, very high anxiety, agoraphobia, no motivation, almost no libido, can become tearful over stupid things..... This is coming from someone who spent over 20 years in demolition, so a very physically demanding job, and now I'm feeling like this.

Would TRT help or make things worse as in anxiety?

Thanks greatly in advance for any help or advice.

Dear Sir, I am on the way out but look up my posts on escitalopram. Tried it for 1 year and now gone cold Turkey. Worked wonders for my panic / anxiety developed after a few years on TRT and a heart scare. Problem is the escitalopram really made the anhedonia much worse. I use clonazepam intermittently for sleep but never more than a couple days in a row and not more thar 3 days a week. Ask your Doc about a trial (12 weeks) of escitalopram. I wish you the best. It probably is not a permanent fix but may help you get over his hump.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

i went off benzos. 2y use. still hell. took 2-4y to fully resolve. i am very sensitive and get anxious easily. but TRT made everything much better. i would first get dialed in, THEN start an ultra slow V taper. you are looking at 6-12 month taper time

 

[madman]

Hi all.

I'm in need of some advice please.
I'm a 49yr old male. 6ft and 189lbs. Always been incredibly active and used to do bodybuilding. Sadly the past 7+ years l started suffering from panic attacks, which has led to agoraphobia, as in totally housebound. I had a nurse from a private clinic come over to take my bloods. Testosterone and estrogen are low. We work in slightly different numbers, but they are 11.2Nmol for Testosterone which I think is about 260 in US numbers. I have also been trying to slower taper off my Valium that I'm prescribed. I put this question asking about TRT on a Facebook benzo withdrawal group, they said that TRT will make me really anxious and not to do it. My symptoms are.... Ultra low confidence, very high anxiety, agoraphobia, no motivation, almost no libido, can become tearful over stupid things..... This is coming from someone who spent over 20 years in demolition, so a very physically demanding job, and now I'm feeling like this.

Would TRT help or make things worse as in anxiety?

Thanks greatly in advance for any help or advice.

Both issues (Benzo and Testosterone) need to be addressed by a competent doctor.

Again highly doubtful that your T levels are going to be much better when you come of your current medication.

If you were abusing opiods that can have a significant negative impact on the hpta and
lowering T levels.

Even then recovery of T levels in not a long process.

Opioid-induced hypogonadism

Testosterone deficiency, the unrecognized consequence of the opioid epidemic in men (2022) Janine David, GP and Associate Specialist in Andrology; Mike Kirby, Editor Testosterone deficiency resulting from chronic opioid use can have a profound effect on health and quality of life, but it often...

www.excelmale.com

*The impact occurs rapidly, often within one week, and the highest risk appears to be among patients receiving significant dosages for longer than one month. The use of the more potent opioids is more likely to cause a greater risk of hypogonadism, but the effects seem to be reversible after a few days of withdrawal. As one might expect, long-acting opioids have a greater risk compared with short-acting drugs. There is a significant correlation between increased dosage and the development of opioid-induced androgen deficiency (OPIAD).14

*The prevalence of OPIAD ranges from 19% to 86%, with most studies reporting an overall prevalence higher than 50%, confirming the significant impact of opioids in reducing testosterone levels.14,17,18 Figure 3 shows the prevalence of low testosterone among chronic opioid users and men with other conditions.19

*A systematic review and metaanalysis of testosterone suppression in opioid users concluded that testosterone level was suppressed in men with regular opioid use regardless of the opioid type and found a mean testosterone difference of 5.7nmol/L between opioid users and controls. Opioids were found to affect testosterone levels differently in men than women, and testosterone was not found to be suppressed in studies examining opioid-using women.20

Opioids can induce several hypogonadism-related signs and symptoms, including sexual dysfunction, mood impairment, fatigue, obesity and cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, and sexual dysfunction.




Summary

OPIAD is common and can impair satisfactory pain relief. OPIAD also impairs sexual activity, mood, and bone metabolism and is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease and obesity.

Guidelines support screening for testosterone deficiency in this situation. Consideration should be given to screening for testosterone deficiency prior to an opioid prescription, to provide a baseline. From a clinical point of view, the effect is reversible and if the opioid is removed, the deficiency is reversed, usually within a month.

Wherever possible consider alternative pain management strategies, as per NICE guidance, but if treatment is necessary consider using an opioid with a lower MOP affinity such as buprenorphine or tramadol, and enquire about relevant low testosterone symptoms, with testosterone measurements at subsequent follow-up

Current evidence suggests testosterone replacement might be beneficial and synergistic with analgesics to improve pain control in hypogonadal men.

OPIAD can have a profound effect on health and quality of life, and it can hinder a clinician’s ability to effectively treat chronic pain and manage complex comorbidities, but it often goes unrecognized and untreated.




You are 49 years old and your FT level is dismal.

Again you were given sound advice regarding your low T.

I never stated how to go about addressing you coming of your current medication other than seeking out a competent doctor!

 

[madman]

You are a pathetic miserable old grandpa who has zero experience on the topic at hand yet wishes to have the last word. Well, you can have it.

Go ahead, ban me, delete me, I won't be back.

Good bye.

Clearly went over your head as my advice was for his low-T.

Never dished out advice on how to approach coming of his current meds other than seeking out a competent doctor.

Again think more deeply before shooting off at the mouth.

So do not get it twisted!

 

[madman]

One last thing before I log out for the last time. Do the math.

You have a post to like ratio of just 26.24%. I have one of 103.9% (more likes than posts).

so Im clearly not buried, clearly not toasted. People seem to like what I post more way than you.

Don't even both replying - I won't be coming back.

One last thing before I log out for the last time. Do the math.

You have a post to like ratio of just 26.24%. I have one of 103.9% (more likes than posts).

LOL!

What is this grade 2!

A forum with a bunch of strangers yet he holds great value on the post to like ratio LMFAO!

What from the handful of known members that live on here.

Get back to me on how much value your posts hold to all the content I post up on here (men's health/testosterone therapy) which is seen by 1000s of guests who frequent the forum daily.

Far outweighed here.

Could care less whether I am liked or not as I am not here for a fan club.

I am here to educate and kick some sense in peoples heads!




so Im clearly not buried, clearly not toasted. People seem to like what I post more way than you.

You clearly are!

Your past posts speak for themselves you know which ones they are.




Don't even both replying - I won't be coming back.

Funny how they all tend to say this yet they keep coming back.

Bet you will be one of those hidden guests still secretly reading my threads/posts!

 

[BigTex]

You are a pathetic miserable old grandpa who has zero experience on the topic at hand yet wishes to have the last word. Well, you can have it.

Go ahead, ban me, delete me, I won't be back.

Good bye.

Damn, I guess I missed all of this too. @bixt I hope you reconsider and stay around. I honestly hate seeing things come to this. I guess we all need to step back and relax a little.

 

[BigTex]

Also @BigTex and @FunkOdyssey are to be celebrated on this as well. Superstars of the like to post count ratio. Well done guys. See you at MesoRx or wherever the next adventure unfolds. My current 200 mg/week androgen usage is driving me insane like those 90s after school specials. Be careful kids!

MesoRX? I think I have an account there too.