TRT & benzo withdrawal, please help.

[Bigbear]

Hi all.

I'm in need of some advice please.
I'm a 49yr old male. 6ft and 189lbs. Always been incredibly active and used to do bodybuilding. Sadly the past 7+ years l started suffering from panic attacks, which has led to agoraphobia, as in totally housebound. I had a nurse from a private clinic come over to take my bloods. Testosterone and estrogen are low. We work in slightly different numbers, but they are 11.2Nmol for Testosterone which I think is about 260 in US numbers. I have also been trying to slower taper off my Valium that I'm prescribed. I put this question asking about TRT on a Facebook benzo withdrawal group, they said that TRT will make me really anxious and not to do it. My symptoms are.... Ultra low confidence, very high anxiety, agoraphobia, no motivation, almost no libido, can become tearful over stupid things..... This is coming from someone who spent over 20 years in demolition, so a very physically demanding job, and now I'm feeling like this.

Would TRT help or make things worse as in anxiety?

Thanks greatly in advance for any help or advice.

 

[Systemlord]

I put this question asking about TRT on a Facebook benzo withdrawal group, they said that TRT will make me really anxious and not to do it.

30 year long term benzo user here! I tapered off in 2015 and hell descended upon me, the protracted withdrawal was never ending. TRT for life.

There’s no way to know how one will respond to androgens, no two men have the same experience. I went through panic attacks and basically had psychotic episodes coming off benzo’s.

Then I went on TRT and everything eventually got better, normal, once I got dialed in on TRT. Testosterone for me has a calming effect, but gives me appropriate aggression for a male, when I need to be and not when I don’t.

We work in slightly different numbers, but they are 11.2Nmol for Testosterone which I think is about 260 in US numbers.

These numbers will lead to numerous diseases. Think of low-T like a death sentence. It’s a good bet that the low-T may be the cause of your anxiety.

Your mindset needs to be, submit yourself for treatment, and hope for the best.

 

[Bigbear]

30 year long term benzo user here! I tapered off in 2015 and hell descended upon me, the protracted withdrawal was never ending. TRT for life.

There’s no way to know how one will respond to androgens, no two men have the same experience. I went through panic attacks and basically had psychotic episodes coming off benzo’s.

Then I went on TRT and everything eventually got better, normal, once I got dialed in on TRT. Testosterone for me has a calming effect, but gives me appropriate aggression for a male, when I need to be and not when I don’t.

These numbers will lead to numerous diseases. Think of low-T like a death sentence. It’s a good bet that the low-T may be the cause of your anxiety.

Your mindset needs to be, submit yourself for treatment, and hope for the best.

Thanks greatly for your helpful reply.
30 years on benzos, I thought mine was bad at 23 years. I'm on 10mg of Valium. What benzo and dose were you on if you don't mind me asking?
The benzo withdrawal group on Facebook has scared the life out of me when I said about starting TRT, so has now made me think twice about starting it.

 

[Systemlord]

What benzo and dose were you on if you don't mind me asking?

Clonazepam, 2 mg daily since 15-45 years old.

The benzo withdrawal group on Facebook has scared the life out of me when I said about starting TRT, so has now made me think twice about starting it.

Those groups are suffering, worse case scenarios. Poison to those wanting to recover.

I wonder if some of them have given up, spreading doom and gloom to all that venture there.

Why listen to hypochondriacs?

If you want the best chance at successful TRT, find someone who does it every day, all day and not some ordinary endocrinologist or urologist who only prescribes TRT on rare occasions.

 

[Bigbear]

Clonazepam, 2 mg daily since 15-45 years old.

Those groups are suffering, worse case scenarios. Poison to those wanting to recover.

I wonder if some of them have given up, spreading doom and gloom to all that venture there.

Why listen to hypochondriacs?

If you want the best chance at successful TRT, find someone who does it every day, all day and not some ordinary endocrinologist or urologist who only prescribes TRT on rare occasions.

Clonazepam is very potent, far more potent than Valium. My Dr added 0.5mg of Clon alongside the Val. Clon was terrible to come off, and that was at just 0.5mg. It worked wonders to start with, but sadly stopped working and had the opposite effect.

I didn't think of those benzo groups like that, yet so true. Poison to those wanting to get better. I mentioned about a good diet to help with anxiety. I had many replies saying zero cars which I tried and felt horrible on. No tea, coffee, anything with sugars, any bread, pasta, oats etc. It was suggested that I eat meat, watermelon and vegetables.
Mentioning TRT was like saying I was about to use something like heroin as in the replies I got. They said that not to start TRT as testosterone levels will go back to normal once I am off Valium. I don't think this is true.

 

[Systemlord]

They said that not to start TRT as testosterone levels will go back to normal once I am off Valium.

Never trust absolute statements like this, small minded/naïve wishful thinking. I strongly believe part of my issue coming off Clonazepam, is it was treating diabetic hypertension, which has a similar effect to Cialis, an ED drug, coming off caused my blood pressure to soar!

Clonazepam was treating my type 2 diabetes, the ED got progressively worse as I slowly tapered off. I have heard from doctors familiar with benzo protracted, withdrawal syndrome, which can last several years.

Coming off benzodiazepines has more in common with heroin withdrawal, it’s really that bad!

 

[madman]

Hi all.

I'm in need of some advice please.
I'm a 49yr old male. 6ft and 189lbs. Always been incredibly active and used to do bodybuilding. Sadly the past 7+ years l started suffering from panic attacks, which has led to agoraphobia, as in totally housebound. I had a nurse from a private clinic come over to take my bloods. Testosterone and estrogen are low. We work in slightly different numbers, but they are 11.2Nmol for Testosterone which I think is about 260 in US numbers. I have also been trying to slower taper off my Valium that I'm prescribed. I put this question asking about TRT on a Facebook benzo withdrawal group, they said that TRT will make me really anxious and not to do it. My symptoms are.... Ultra low confidence, very high anxiety, agoraphobia, no motivation, almost no libido, can become tearful over stupid things..... This is coming from someone who spent over 20 years in demolition, so a very physically demanding job, and now I'm feeling like this.

Would TRT help or make things worse as in anxiety?

Thanks greatly in advance for any help or advice.

Fellow Canuck I see!

Rare siting on here.

You have been a member of the forum since 2014.

First off what time of day was blood drawn and were you fasted?

When testing your testosterone (TT, FT, BAT) blood work needs to be done in the early AM in a fasted state as we want to have this done when T levels peak.

Natural endogenous testosterone secretion is pulsatile and diurnal.

During the natural 24 hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young male T levels will start rising gradually overnight reaching peak in the early AM followed by lower levels in the late afternoon and reaching trough (lowest point) in the evening.

Fluctuations from peak--->trough would be around 20-25%

This is key:

(i) elevated and near peak TT level during nighttime sleep, (ii) peak TT level around the time of morning awakening, (iii) moderately elevated TT level during the initial hours of wakefulness, (iv) reduced TT level in the late afternoon, and (v) lowest TT level in the evening.

This is why we always want to have blood work done in the early AM otherwise your results will be skewed.

Your TT 11.2 nmol/L (325 ng/dL) is low and more importantly your FT is going to be dismal!

Big question is what time was your blood drawn?

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

You need a thorough set of labs.

Blood work should be done for TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG, DHT, prolactin, Vit D DHEA-S, LH/FSH, PSA, full thyroid panel (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3, antibodies), salivary cortisol (Four Specimens), lipids, CMP, CBC, and CRP.

Your T levels are close to where mine were before I started therapy.

Not sure what was the main cause of your panic attacks but for all we know you may have very well been suffering from dismal FT levels the past 7 years which contributed to the anxiety.




Look over this thread!

Testosterone Therapy in Canada

@Marcel https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/the-dea-wants-to-limit-your-access-to-trt-telemedicine.27274/page-6 We have always been far worse off than the US when it comes to the treatment of men for testosterone deficiency. Although there has been some improvement in certain areas we...

www.excelmale.com

 

[madman]

30 year long term benzo user here! I tapered off in 2015 and hell descended upon me, the protracted withdrawal was never ending. TRT for life.

There’s no way to know how one will respond to androgens, no two men have the same experience. I went through panic attacks and basically had psychotic episodes coming off benzo’s.

Then I went on TRT and everything eventually got better, normal, once I got dialed in on TRT. Testosterone for me has a calming effect, but gives me appropriate aggression for a male, when I need to be and not when I don’t.

These numbers will lead to numerous diseases. Think of low-T like a death sentence. It’s a good bet that the low-T may be the cause of your anxiety.

Your mindset needs to be, submit yourself for treatment, and hope for the best.

This is not a given.

Sounds like scare tactics to me.

Piss poor quality of life, being more prone to CVD, prostate cancer, osteoporosis....sure.

A given that it will lead to numerous diseases let alone a death sentence....NAH!

You have clearly wasted too much of your time on that other forum bumNATION!




1.2.3 Castration through the times

In Greek mythology castration already occurred among the first generation of gods. Gaea, mother earth, grew out of the chaos and produced Uranos by parthenogenesis, with whom she then generated the titan Chronos. When Uranos prevented Gaea from creating children with their son Chronos, she induced Chronos to castrate his father. This episode has been depicted beautifully in a fresco by Giorgio Vasari (1511–1574) in the Palazzo Vecchio in Florence. Uranos’ testes, thrown into the sea, caused the water to foam, and out of these bubbles the foamborn goddess of love Aphrodite (= Venus) was born. Quite extraordinary events in terms of reproductive physiology.

In the real world, castration has been practiced for socio-cultural purposes since antiquity. Its major purpose was to generate obedient slaves who were loyal to their masters or rulers and who, being infertile, could not create competing offspring. Set to guarding harems, they also, and in larger numbers, obtained influential administrative and political positions as in China, and formed elite troops (Mitamura 1992; Flaig 2009).

Although most likely already practiced earlier, the earliest documentation of creating eunuchs in China dates back to about 1300 BC. The Chinese eunuch system, with several thousands at a time, continued until the end of the imperial system in 1912. In the nineteenth century there were still about 2000 eunuchs at the imperial court in Beijing. The last Chinese eunuch died at the age of 93 in 1996. Only the fact that imperial eunuchs could obtain highranking positions and considerable power as well as wealth makes it plausible that adult men underwent this gruesome operation. It was performed by “licensed surgeons” just outside the imperial court in Beijing, by cutting off testes and penis. About 25% of the volunteers did not survive this bloody operation. The severed genitals were kept in a box, as shown in the film “The Last Emperor” (1987), and were eventually buried with their owner.

Eunuchs probably already existed in ancient Egypt. From the times of the legendary Queen Semiramis (about 800 BC) eunuchs were reported from Assyria, and the system developed and continued into the Islamic world in the Middle East and North Africa. Over centuries, slaves were deported from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Islamic cities and courts, and many of the slaves who survived the exhausting march through the desert were then castrated to serve as laborers, guards, administrators and even soldiers (Barth 1857). It is astonishing that these tasks could be fulfilled without the anabolic effects of testosterone.

It has been estimated that the transatlantic deportation of Africans to the Americas between 1450 and 1870 comprised about 11.5 million people, while the entire Islamic deportation of slaves from Africa between 650 and 1920 amounted to 17 million people, and several million of these African slaves were castrated. This constant drain of manpower effectively prevented economic and cultural development of Sub-Saharan Africa. In medieval times slaves were also exported from Europe to the Islamic countries. These slaves were mainly from Eastern European (Slavic) and Central Asian countries. There were well-established slave routes through Europe, and Verdun has the questionable historical fame of having been the European center for castration of slaves on their way from the East to the South at those times (Flaig 2009).

Castration has also been practiced as lawful punishment. In medieval Scandinavia, castration combined with blinding was administered for high treason, especially when the insurgent was a close relative whom one did not want to kill directly. As told in the Islendinga Saga, Sturla of the Sturlungar Clan in Iceland castrated and blinded his rebelling relative Oraekja Snorrason in 1236 (personal communication from U. Ebel, Chair of Scandinavian Sciences, University of Münster, 2007). When the Normans migrated south they also introduced this penal practice in the areas they invaded. When he established his reign in Britain after 1066, William the Conqueror abolished the Anglo-Saxon death penalty and replaced it by castration and blinding: “I also forbid that anyone shall be slain or hanged for any fault, but let his eyes be put out and let him be castrated” (Van Eickels 2004). As a further example, in Sicily in 1194 King William III was castrated and blinded after a rebellion against Emperor Henry VI. This episode forms the historical background for Klingsor’s castration in the Parsifal epos (Tuchel 1998). The Toulouse Law Codex of 1296 described (and depicted) castration for high treason.

Throughout the centuries, castration was applied to beaten enemies by victorious soldiers for revenge and as a measure to eliminate the enemies without outright killing. When Italian troops invaded Ethiopia and lost the battle of Aduwa in 1896, supposedly 7000 Italian soldiers were castrated (Melicow 1977). As reported by Babtschenko (2007), this still happened on both sides during the Chechen War in the Caucasus in 1996.

Castration has also been reported as self-mutilation for religious reasons since ancient times in order to make a life of chastity easier. The early church father Origines (186–254) is one of the most prominent examples. In the eleventh to fourteenth centuries the sect of the Catharers, with their strongholds in Southern France, promulgated self-castration as part of a “pure” life. More recently, castration was practiced in Southern Russia among members of the Scoptic sect founded in the eighteenth century, and the medical consequences were documented (Wilson and Roehrborn 1999). The largest contemporary group of castrates are the hijras in India. They function as professional well-wishers at birth rites, and receive considerable financial rewards. Several thousand of them exist.

Castration has also been used as revenge for seduction and adultery through the centuries. For example, Paris has been reported to have castrated Peritanos after he had seduced his famous wife Helena (Lehrs 1832). The case of the great medieval theologian and philosopher Peter Abaelard (1079– 1142) has been celebrated in history and literature. As master of the cathedral school in Paris he seduced one of his disciples, Heloise (1100–1164), whose uncle then had Abaelard castrated by paid criminals. Despite the lack of testosterone, one of the most romantic love stories documented by literature developed (Podlech 1990). This type of revenge continues into most recent times as demonstrated by an incident in Germany in 2011 when the father of a 17-year-old girl castrated her 57-year-old lover (Holzhaider 2011). These people had migrated to Germany from Kazakhstan and might have brought rules of self-justice with them.

Castration before puberty maintains the high voice of boys, so that soprano and alto voices with the acoustic volume of an adult male result. Such high-pitched voices were considered desirable among music lovers, especially at times when women were not allowed to sing in church or in operatic performances. Prepubertal castrates belonged to casts of operas in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries; in the Vatican choirs these voices could be heard until the early twentieth century. Some of these castrates became famous soloists, such as Carlo Farinelli (1705–1782) or Domenico Annibaldi (1705–1779) (Melicow 1983; Ortkemper 1993; Jenkins 1998). The middle Italian city of Nurcia was a center for the operation on young boys. However, most of the thousands of prepubertal castrates lost their virility in vain as they did not achieve the promised career as a singer, developed only mediocre voices and were ridiculed by their contemporaries. An impression of the castrato voice, although of very low recording quality, is preserved from the last Vatican castrato, Alessandro Moreschi (1858–1922), in one of the earliest gramophone recordings, made in 1902 (available today on CD). Today countertenors applying a trained falsetto sing the castrato roles in, for example, Händel operas, but their head voices probably only approximate those of seventeenth-century castrati. Another impression of the enormous artistic talents of the castrati is provided by the recordings of the mezzo-soprano Cecilia Bartoli, who trained her voice to sing the extremely demanding arias by Nicola Porpora (1686–1768), Georg Friedrich Händel (1685–1759) and others (Bartoli 2009).

Prepubertal castration provides an involuntary experiment on the influence of testosterone on longevity. A retrospective comparison of the life expectancy of singers born between 1580 and 1859 and castrated before puberty, in order to preserve their high voices, against intact singers born at the same time, did not reveal a significant difference between the lifespan of intact and castrated singers (Fig.1.1; Nieschlag et al. 1993). This would imply that the presence or absence of normal male testosterone levels has no influence on life expectancy

 

[bixt]

Clonazepam is very potent, far more potent than Valium.

This is a common misconception (in relative terms) you see all over the internet. I want to clear this up.

Yes, mg for mg (absolute terms), almost every other benzo is more potent than diazepam. But that's why the stronger benzo tablets come in much weaker miligrams!!!!

Here is a rough equivalency table, you can google one for items I didn't include:

5mg valium (diazepam) is roughly equal to:

0.5mg Alprazolam (Xanax)
0.5mg Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol)
0.5mg Clonazepam
15mg Tamazepam
10mg Clobezam
1mg Lorazepam


So when people say clonazepam is very potent vs vailum they are talking nonsense in relative terms since people do not take 0.5mg valium and compare it to 0.5mg xanax.....

Instead they dose accordingly to get the same subjective effects, and the tablets come dosed equivalently accordingly as well.

I just want to clear this up, so when tapering you understand exactly what you are doing and don't substitute wrongly by accident (when changing a compound).

 

[bixt]

With regards to a taper, do it over 6 months in your case. I'm assuming you are using 5mg tablets, which can easily be cut into 1/4s using a pill cutter or roughly with a knife. I will refer to each 1/4 as "1 piece" below.

So right now have been taking 8 pieces a day. (2 full tabs).
So immediately from now start taking only 7 pieces for an entire month.
Then 6 pieces for the next month.
Then 5 pieces for a month.
And so on.
When you get to one piece a day for a while, then try skipping a day here and there and then gradually skipping more and more until you are off.

It's a long process, good luck.

I would probably do bloods and start TRT if needed after you are clean simply because you will end up confusing potential TRT effects with benzo withdrawal effects and wrongly blame the other. TRT is not a crutch to alleviate benzo withdrawal during a taper.

 

[Bigbear]

This is a common misconception (in relative terms) you see all over the internet. I want to clear this up.

Yes, mg for mg (absolute terms), almost every other benzo is more potent than diazepam. But that's why the stronger benzo tablets come in much weaker miligrams!!!!

Here is a rough equivalency table, you can google one for items I didn't include:

5mg valium (diazepam) is roughly equal to:

0.5mg Alprazolam (Xanax)
0.5mg Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol)
0.5mg Clonazepam
15mg Tamazepam
10mg Clobezam
1mg Lorazepam


So when people say clonazepam is very potent vs vailum they are talking nonsense in relative terms since people do not take 0.5mg valium and compare it to 0.5mg xanax.....

Instead they dose accordingly to get the same subjective effects, and the tablets come dosed equivalently accordingly as well.

I just want to clear this up, so when tapering you understand exactly what you are doing and don't substitute wrongly by accident (when changing a compound).

That's interesting. I did find 1mg of Klonopin to be far more effective than 10mg Valium for anxiety and agoraphobia as in its anxiolytic effects. The only trouble was I quickly built up a tolerance to it, and then it actually started having the opposite effect, as in more anxiety whilst on it than before I ever took it. Shame as when Klon worked, it was brilliant.

 

[Bigbear]

Fellow Canuck I see!

Rare siting on here.

You have been a member of the forum since 2014.

First off what time of day was blood drawn and were you fasted?

When testing your testosterone (TT, FT, BAT) blood work needs to be done in the early AM in a fasted state as we want to have this done when T levels peak.

Natural endogenous testosterone secretion is pulsatile and diurnal.

During the natural 24 hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young male T levels will start rising gradually overnight reaching peak in the early AM followed by lower levels in the late afternoon and reaching trough (lowest point) in the evening.

Fluctuations from peak--->trough would be around 20-25%

This is key:

(i) elevated and near peak TT level during nighttime sleep, (ii) peak TT level around the time of morning awakening, (iii) moderately elevated TT level during the initial hours of wakefulness, (iv) reduced TT level in the late afternoon, and (v) lowest TT level in the evening.

This is why we always want to have blood work done in the early AM otherwise your results will be skewed.

Your TT 11.2 nmol/L (325 ng/dL) is low and more importantly your FT is going to be dismal!

Big question is what time was your blood drawn?

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

You need a thorough set of labs.

Blood work should be done for TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG, DHT, prolactin, Vit D DHEA-S, LH/FSH, PSA, full thyroid panel (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3, antibodies), salivary cortisol (Four Specimens), lipids, CMP, CBC, and CRP.

Your T levels are close to where mine were before I started therapy.

Not sure what was the main cause of your panic attacks but for all we know you may have very well been suffering from dismal FT levels the past 7 years which contributed to the anxiety.




Look over this thread!

Testosterone Therapy in Canada

@Marcel https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/the-dea-wants-to-limit-your-access-to-trt-telemedicine.27274/page-6 We have always been far worse off than the US when it comes to the treatment of men for testosterone deficiency. Although there has been some improvement in certain areas we...

www.excelmale.com

Fellow Canuck I see!

Rare siting on here.

You have been a member of the forum since 2014.

First off what time of day was blood drawn and were you fasted?

When testing your testosterone (TT, FT, BAT) blood work needs to be done in the early AM in a fasted state as we want to have this done when T levels peak.

Natural endogenous testosterone secretion is pulsatile and diurnal.

During the natural 24 hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young male T levels will start rising gradually overnight reaching peak in the early AM followed by lower levels in the late afternoon and reaching trough (lowest point) in the evening.

Fluctuations from peak--->trough would be around 20-25%

This is key:

(i) elevated and near peak TT level during nighttime sleep, (ii) peak TT level around the time of morning awakening, (iii) moderately elevated TT level during the initial hours of wakefulness, (iv) reduced TT level in the late afternoon, and (v) lowest TT level in the evening.

This is why we always want to have blood work done in the early AM otherwise your results will be skewed.

Your TT 11.2 nmol/L (325 ng/dL) is low and more importantly your FT is going to be dismal!

Big question is what time was your blood drawn?

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

You need a thorough set of labs.

Blood work should be done for TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG, DHT, prolactin, Vit D DHEA-S, LH/FSH, PSA, full thyroid panel (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3, antibodies), salivary cortisol (Four Specimens), lipids, CMP, CBC, and CRP.

Your T levels are close to where mine were before I started therapy.

Not sure what was the main cause of your panic attacks but for all we know you may have very well been suffering from dismal FT levels the past 7 years which contributed to the anxiety.




Look over this thread!

Testosterone Therapy in Canada

@Marcel https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/the-dea-wants-to-limit-your-access-to-trt-telemedicine.27274/page-6 We have always been far worse off than the US when it comes to the treatment of men for testosterone deficiency. Although there has been some improvement in certain areas we...

www.excelmale.com

Thanks greatly for your reply and help.

My latest bloods. Taken at 9am after fasting for 14 hours.

Fellow Canuck I see!

Rare siting on here.

You have been a member of the forum since 2014.

First off what time of day was blood drawn and were you fasted?

When testing your testosterone (TT, FT, BAT) blood work needs to be done in the early AM in a fasted state as we want to have this done when T levels peak.

Natural endogenous testosterone secretion is pulsatile and diurnal.

During the natural 24 hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young male T levels will start rising gradually overnight reaching peak in the early AM followed by lower levels in the late afternoon and reaching trough (lowest point) in the evening.

Fluctuations from peak--->trough would be around 20-25%

This is key:

(i) elevated and near peak TT level during nighttime sleep, (ii) peak TT level around the time of morning awakening, (iii) moderately elevated TT level during the initial hours of wakefulness, (iv) reduced TT level in the late afternoon, and (v) lowest TT level in the evening.

This is why we always want to have blood work done in the early AM otherwise your results will be skewed.

Your TT 11.2 nmol/L (325 ng/dL) is low and more importantly your FT is going to be dismal!

Big question is what time was your blood drawn?

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

You need a thorough set of labs.

Blood work should be done for TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG, DHT, prolactin, Vit D DHEA-S, LH/FSH, PSA, full thyroid panel (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3, antibodies), salivary cortisol (Four Specimens), lipids, CMP, CBC, and CRP.

Your T levels are close to where mine were before I started therapy.

Not sure what was the main cause of your panic attacks but for all we know you may have very well been suffering from dismal FT levels the past 7 years which contributed to the anxiety.




Look over this thread!

Testosterone Therapy in Canada

@Marcel https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/the-dea-wants-to-limit-your-access-to-trt-telemedicine.27274/page-6 We have always been far worse off than the US when it comes to the treatment of men for testosterone deficiency. Although there has been some improvement in certain areas we...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Bigbear]

Sorry, I should have put these up at the start of the post.

My bloods. Taken at 9am and I had fasted.

 

[madman]

Sorry, I should have put these up at the start of the post.

My bloods. Taken at 9am and I had fasted.

Thanks this makes a big difference!

As you can see you are only hitting a TT in the low 300s (11.3 nmol/L or 325.9 ng/dL) and more importantly your FT is low.

You never posted SHBG but this can be figured out as your free testosterone was done using the cFTV method which is used in Canada.

Looking over the reference ranges for TT/FT your labs were most likely done through Lifelabs.

Your cFT is 0.239 nmol/L (bottom end) of Lifelabs reference range (0.2-0.62 nmol/L).

Again this was done using the cFTV method.

In Canada units for TT/FT are nmol/L.

As you can clearly see if we take your TT 11.3 nmol/L, and use a default Albumin 4.3 g/dL (as you never posted) and plug in different SHBG values than your SHBG would be 29.7 nmol/L (normal not high or low) your cFTV would be 0.239 nmol/L (bottom end low) which your labs results show.

We used a default Albumin of 4.3 g/dL as you never posted in your labs so it may very well be higher or lower which would slightly change where your SHBG truly sits but this is nitpicking here so we will just go with 29.7 nmol/L.

In the US the units for TT/FT is ng/dL.

As you can clearly see if we convert your TT 11.3 nmol/L to 325.9 ng/dL your cFTV would be 6.89 ng/dL.

Also keep in mind that cFTV as of now tends to overestimate FT when compared against the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis.

So your FT level is most likely even lower!

Definitely need to look into therapy to treat your low T as it will make a world of difference especially in the long run.

You are 49 years old not a young chap anymore.

My levels were slightly lower than yours before I started and my SHBG was 34 nmol/L.

Keep in mind that there are other options before jumping on full blown TRT.

The main hurdle now is going to be finding a good doctor in the know to treat you.

 

[Systemlord]

Sorry, I should have put these up at the start of the post.

My bloods. Taken at 9am and I had fasted.

Just to be clear, your testosterone measured from a.m to p.m will only show a difference of 25 percent.

 

[Bigbear]

Brilliant, thanks greatly.
These are the other markers.

 

[Bigbear]

Just found this last one......

 

[madman]

Brilliant, thanks greatly.
These are the other markers.

Need to get your folate, b12 and Vit D up!

B-complex and Vit D supplement.

 

[madman]

Just to be clear, your testosterone measured from a.m to p.m will only show a difference of 25 percent.

He is well aware as I laid it out in post #7


First off what time of day was blood drawn and were you fasted?

When testing your testosterone (TT, FT, BAT) blood work needs to be done in the early AM in a fasted state as we want to have this done when T levels peak.

Natural endogenous testosterone secretion is pulsatile and diurnal.

During the natural 24 hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young male T levels will start rising gradually overnight reaching peak in the early AM followed by lower levels in the late afternoon and reaching trough (lowest point) in the evening.

Fluctuations from peak--->trough would be around 20-25%


Even than no one had a clue from his opening post that he was fasting.

This is critical as testing in an unfasted state can have a big impact on driving down T levels which would skew the results.

Testing TT, FT and BAT in the early AM in a fasted state is critical let alone using accurate assays!

These are things that need to be asked before jumping to any conclusions.

 

[sammmy]

You need better diet, unless your vitamin deficiencies are caused by intestinal problems.

Also, you should go to an endocrinologist - your problems may be related to thyroid.