Should I try a restart?

[Weasel]

Morning guys,

I've been struggling with TRT for a few years now. Stats are 31yrs 6'2" 230lbs in good shape, about 14-16% bodyfat, work out 5 days a week cardio and weight lifting. Long story short, I had a couple T readings in the 270-300 range and the doc offered Test C. Without knowing what i was doing, I jumped at the chance to feel better. I had rather low FSH and LH, both were around 2, looking back i believe i was secondary.

I went with the Test C for about a year, I felt great during this time. My wife and I started talking kids so I got the doc to switch to clomid and I added an AI myself and this did raise T levels naturally to 400-600 and put LH and FSH at 4.14 and 2.45 Respectively and Free T at 100.7. I wanted to try and get away from the AI but numbers tanked each time i stopped the AI. I didn't feel any better and maybe worse so i discontinued the clomid.
I Then went on HCG Mono at 500IU EOD and this got my t levels into the 400-600 range as well with free T around 100. Felt ok.

current protocol is 100mg Test C per week(50mgx2) and 250iu HCG EOD. I still have a foggy disconnected feeling and just generally feel out of it. One day i will feel great, and the next few is back in the gutter.

I have tons of lab work dating back to 2012. The only e2 test my clinic offers is the standard e2 test which i used a few times but i dont know if those numbers are reliable. My closest walk in clinic is 6 hours away so thats not much of an option.


I'm in the best physical shape of my life right now....Mentally, not so much though.

My sleep is horrible. A good nights sleep is waking up maybe 6 times or so. a bad night is basically not sleeping. Some nights i know i slept because the time went by fast but I fee like my brain was in overdrive the entire night. This lack of sleep makes for a mighty miserable day(s). I can get a good nights sleep using mirtazapine but I'm groggy the following day so whats the point.

I've really been on the fence about trying to get my body to stand on its own 2 feet and maintain a Free T level in the 100 range. I'm mostly just scared to try it and feel worse than I already do.

Set me straight fellas.

 

[Vince]

You should consider posting your latest labs. Would you consider having a consultation with Defy Medical?

 

[CoastWatcher]

You admit that you don't feel particulalrly good at the present time, so it's not as if you risk throwing all the gains you made on TRT out the window by opting for a restart protocol. There is one crucial question - does your doctor know how to manage one? If you have any doubt, it is worth seeking another professional opinion.

 

[smcgann]

This sounds similar to my scenario where I had low cortisol. The tricky thing is standard medical community doesn't believe this is possible or an issue unless you have Addison disease. I got lucky and stumble across a functional medicine practitioner that did an "Adrenal Stress Profile" lab that showed my cortisol tanking at the times that I had fatigue and brain fog.

 

[Weasel]

I do have some labs to post but I cannot log in to get them for some reason right now. I'll add them in to my original post when I can get them.

My 4x CORT test.

Cortisol (Saliva) 9.4 ng/mL 3.7-9.5 (morning)
Cortisol (Saliva) 2.5 ng/mL 1.2-3.0 (noon)
Cortisol (Saliva) 1.4 ng/mL 0.6-1.9 (evening)
Cortisol (Saliva) 0.7 ng/mL 0.4-1.0 (night

 

[Weasel]

You admit that you don't feel particulalrly good at the present time, so it's not as if you risk throwing all the gains you made on TRT out the window by opting for a restart protocol. There is one crucial question - does your doctor know how to manage one? If you have any doubt, it is worth seeking another professional opinion.

This is true, except for the physical aspect. And in all Honesty, I love how TRT has made me look and feel physically. That's the part i'm scared of losing.

 

[CoastWatcher]

This is true, except for the physical aspect. And in all Honesty, I love how TRT has made me look and feel physically. That's the part i'm scared of losing.

And my question - do you have a doctor you can rely on who has experience with a restart?

 

[ERO]

The right doctor will make the difference between success and failure on your re-start or your TRT if you continue. I would schedule a consult with Defy Medical ASAP.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

100-200 mg TRT a week plus 500 IU HCG every other day has been proven to improve fertility. No other protocol involving TRT +HCG has (specially using your low dose of HCG).

Did you take steroids or opiates in the past?

Have you considered sleep apnea testing?

Your cortisol is OK.

Do you drink caffeine after 2 pm? Do you expose your eyes to computer/TV/phone screens late?

Have you tried chewable Melatonin before dinner?

Fatigue- When Testosterone Is Not Enough

 

[Weasel]

100-200 mg TRT a week plus 500 IU HCG every other day has been proven to improve fertility. No other protocol involving TRT +HCG has (specially using your low dose of HCG).

Did you take steroids or opiates in the past?

Have you considered sleep apnea testing?

Your cortisol is OK.

Do you drink caffeine after 2 pm? Do you expose your eyes to computer/TV/phone screens late?

Have you tried chewable Melatonin before dinner?

Fatigue- When Testosterone Is Not Enough

When I was 19 I did use a pro-hormone. I don't recall exactly what it was but i believe it was a 1-testosterone of some sort. No opiates.

I've never thought of sleep apnea, I guess I've always thought of that only affecting old fat guys.

I use zero caffeine anymore. I did always have coffee in the morning but have cut that out as well. I used to be on my electronics late into the evening, I've cut out all electronics except for the TV. Usually watch a Hockey game before bed.

I did try melatonin, but I took it about 8pm. It did hep me sleep at first but the effects seemed to have wore off after a short time.

 

[Weasel]

And my question - do you have a doctor you can rely on who has experience with a restart?

No. My doctor is about useless.

 

[Weasel]

The right doctor will make the difference between success and failure on your re-start or your TRT if you continue. I would schedule a consult with Defy Medical ASAP.

How does a consult with defy work? I'm a long ways from Florida.
Can someone send me a link?

I'd love to use discountedlabs.com. My closest blood draw station is 6hrs away though.

 

[Vettester Chris]

As mentioned, it would be good to see the bulk of your recent labs, including a complete thyroid panel if you have it?

To answer your post title, I personally don't think you will get anywhere with trying a "restart" at this stage of it. However, you mentioned the low gonadotropin readings and being secondary, which no doubt is the variable that's behind your low test, but it would be useful to know what caused your HPTA to suppress at such a young age? Sometimes medications can do it, anabolic steroids as noted by Nelson, and sometimes it can a problem within the pituitary gland itself. Just hoping maybe your physician got to the root of it?

Agree, your cortisol at a glance looks fine, with the morning being right there at the very top of the reference range. Just to cover the bases, did they also include a DHEA saliva panel, and if so do you have the numbers and/or any correlation analysis?

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

How does a consult with defy work? I'm a long ways from Florida.
Can someone send me a link?

I'd love to use discountedlabs.com. My closest blood draw station is 6hrs away though.

The consult with Defy works with this invention called a telephone. Here is their number: 813-445-7342.

http://www.defymedical.com

 

[Weasel]

The consult with Defy works with this invention called a telephone. Here is their number: 813-445-7342.

http://www.defymedical.com

Alright wise guy, I get that. A consult gives you their thoughts or can they actually provide medical care for you after this consult only, without you ever being seen in their office?

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Alright wise guy, I get that. A consult gives you their thoughts or can they actually provide medical care for you after this consult only, without you ever being seen in their office?

Weasel,

Call them first, and they will tell you everything you need to know. They will require blood work (through discounted labs or anyone you want) and a physical from your primary care physician. You will also fill out a medical history form. Once they have all of that, you will have an telephone appointment with Dr. Saya or Dr. Crisler. At that time if you decide you want to be a patient, the doctor can prescribe all meds, and explain your protocol to you in detail.

During my initial appointment with Dr. Saya, we were on the phone for well over an hour going over my medical history, symptoms, and protocol once I decided to be a patient.

Trust me, it's a solid move. These guys are on the cutting edge of TRT, and they know their stuff.

Sorry for being a wise ass, but you've got to admit...you walked right into that one!

 

[Weasel]

Thanks Jackie. That's just way to simple! I'll be giving them a call soon.

And yes, I Spose I did set myself up a little.

 

[ERO]

Remember too that you never need to travel to Florida as you do with some tele-medicine providers. I have been with Defy for almost a year and they are by far the best TRT provider that I have ever used.