Has anyone ever regretted TRT?

[JimGainz]

Hi guys

I'm almost at the point where my endo, after long discussions, is at least open to trying TRT.

He gave a long talk though that he has a lot of patients in his practice that were prescribed TRT by doctors who were not really looking into other causes, and now they are stuck with a "life-long commitment", they regret it now (or don't want to commit to life-long treatment) and he is busy trying to restore their f*cked up hormonal axis.

So my question is:

Any of you guys who has started TRT - and regretted it afterwards, for whatever reasons?

Thx

Realize that most endocrinologist are the most conservative people on the planet when it comes to prescribing anything – they are perfectly happy to have a young healthy male in his 20s with the testosterone level of someone who is 85 years old because it’s in the “normal” range. This point is valid about not jumping into soon – but I would be more concerned about this if I was in my 30s – I started TRT when I was almost 50 – so at that point it was only going to go to more downhill from there – and I didn’t have to worry about having children and coming off. There is also more evidence to show that high normal testosterone levels is more protective for males and actually reduces all forms of mortality. My Endo was a real jerk – I went to him for second opinion, after starting from another doctor, and when he told me that I’m going to risk having cardiac problems the longer I’m on, I showed him an article from the Journal of cardiology that show the complete opposite and he got upset and threw me out of his office. My point is they are very old-school in their approach – which is good in some ways – but you need to be your own advocate – I think you’re going down the right path – try to seek out the other problems first – but just realize that most roads are going to lead to TRT and it’s not like fixing your thyroid or fixing your vitamin levels is going to drastically bump your Testosterone levels

 

[Smokey]

been on for 7 years. Wish I would have tried to cure my low T naturally before jumping into TRT. I too had major brain fog and dizziness before starting. My challenge has been that a protocol works for about 2-3 months and things start building up like estrogen (then the brain fog returns and other symptoms due to high estrogen) then you have to have an AI which feels like poison to me. Still haven't found that happy medium Blood work history below.

70 MG twice weekly IM
HCG 500 twice weekly IM
No AI
Serm 2 nightly
995 total T
49 estrogen
Bloated face and ED/preejac

200 T once per week IM
HCG 500 MWF
.25 AI twice weekly
Serm 2 nightly
1105 Total T on day 7
25 estrogen
Joints hurt and body feels poisoned by AI

50 MG twice weekly IM
HCG 500 twice weekly IM
No AI
495 Total T
40 Estrogen
Feel tired and low T

 

[JimGainz]

been on for 7 years. Wish I would have tried to cure my low T naturally before jumping into TRT. I too had major brain fog and dizziness before starting. My challenge has been that a protocol works for about 2-3 months and things start building up like estrogen (then the brain fog returns and other symptoms due to high estrogen) then you have to have an AI which feels like poison to me. Still haven't found that happy medium Blood work history below.

70 MG twice weekly IM
HCG 500 twice weekly IM
No AI
Serm 2 nightly
995 total T
49 estrogen
Bloated face and ED/preejac

200 T once per week IM
HCG 500 MWF
.25 AI twice weekly
Serm 2 nightly
1105 Total T on day 7
25 estrogen
Joints hurt and body feels poisoned by AI

50 MG twice weekly IM
HCG 500 twice weekly IM
No AI
495 Total T
40 Estrogen
Feel tired and low T

My guess is the serm contributed to a lot of your troubles - I don’t know any reason why you would take a serm while on TRT. Serms make most
guys feel like sh*t. From the above – I would recommend 140 mg per week with 350 HCG 2x week with .5 mg Arimidex split into two doses. I have a feeling your SHBG is high. In any case – takes a while to dial this in

 

[Donl]

I have to say yes and no, but the yes is more related to tangential issues to using TRT [for about 20 years now]. I started for simple reasons: very low T which my doctor said was a threat to my bone health [HIV+ on a pile of meds]. I was surprised that the supplementation also made me feel better in some important ways. Sexual function did not seem to be affected plus or minus; it was good and stayed good for a long time. Then, I moved, changed doctors, etc. and, long story short, I have had constant battles with doctors who want me on it, don;'t want me on it, want it paired with other things [like HCG], refuse to pair it with other things...and so on. I have also struggled to get medical systems to agree to prescribe and/or pay for monitoring labs. There is simply no consensus in the medical community regarding the necessity, benefits or drawbacks of TRT and/or what a protocol should look like, and, certainly no golden set of markers to follow and tweak to keep one at peak...something. So, all the varied responses in this forum don't surprise me. My only recommendations would be: know clearly what problem you are trying to solve, know how you are going to know if the therapy is solving the problem you were trying to solve, know what source of information you are going to trust regarding adjustments to the treatment and, finally, know what will tell you to stop the therapy. You have to be your own advocate here as with most things medical. If you don't have your stones in a row, you are likely to be dizzied and dithered by conflicting data and opinions.

 

[jdthoosier]

Hi guys

I'm almost at the point where my endo, after long discussions, is at least open to trying TRT.

He gave a long talk though that he has a lot of patients in his practice that were prescribed TRT by doctors who were not really looking into other causes, and now they are stuck with a "life-long commitment", they regret it now (or don't want to commit to life-long treatment) and he is busy trying to restore their f*cked up hormonal axis.

So my question is:

Any of you guys who has started TRT - and regretted it afterwards, for whatever reasons?

Thx

I had no choice. I had some stomach issues that caused me to lose a lot of weight quickly, and unable to absorb nutrients. The upshot was that my hormone levels tanked, and I was a shell of a human being. A NP did some blood tests - saw the dirt low T level, and immediately put me on gels. At that time I felt so bad, and was so mentally exhausted, that I did not question anything.

After the fact, while researching, I found a guy with a similar story, who's endo figured if he could get his weight back and and get sufficient calories, that his T levels would recover; and they did, but it took time.

So I've been frustrated on the one hand that I may not have had to do TRT if only the PCP/NP had sent me to a specialist. I'm skeptical that any of them would have seen the relationship between the weight loss and tanking hormone levels however.

 

[3DMission]

Hi guys

I'm almost at the point where my endo, after long discussions, is at least open to trying TRT.

He gave a long talk though that he has a lot of patients in his practice that were prescribed TRT by doctors who were not really looking into other causes, and now they are stuck with a "life-long commitment", they regret it now (or don't want to commit to life-long treatment) and he is busy trying to restore their f*cked up hormonal axis.

So my question is:

Any of you guys who has started TRT - and regretted it afterwards, for whatever reasons?

Thx

I'm 32 year old male (duh right), diagnosed with Secondary Hypogonadism at 26.

Of course, TRT should be last resort, and if that's the case then there's no way you would regret it, because you genuinely need it. People talk about "can you return to normal levels after TRT", well for me "normal levels" would be under 300, so yes I agree I can return to my normal levels. I don't see any reason why I would magically be healed after stopping TRT.

I do regret trying the patches and gels. I wish I would have started IM injections first, it would have saved me a lot of trouble. At first, I was terrified about taking shots and the first couple were kind of scary. Now it's a normal part of life and I don't even think about it. It's easy and even painless. I alternate between my left and right thighs, self injecting while seated. I'm on .25ml testosterone cypionate and 500 unites of HCG (diluted to be .25ml) taken in the same syringe on Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday. I find I feel the best the next day and I like to start the week off strong, so taken on a Sunday morning makes for a powerful Monday. I also find that taken on Thursday I feel great for Friday and then Saturday is just an awesome day all together, so I usually don't even think about meds on Saturday, I just enjoy life.

So yeah, this is the new "normal" for me, but I'm much much much happier and healthier than I was pre-trt. I felt like death prior and it took me a long time and a lot of different trail and error to finally find this protocol that works for me. I was finally on top of the world, feeling the best I've ever felt and then my E levels were at 64 and the doc prescribed way too much AI and I crashed my E levels, which left me feeling worse than I did with low T. I'm not AI-free for two weeks and slowwwwwly starting to work my way back to feeling great again.

Hope this helps!!! Feel free to ask any questions.

 

[bobcat]

Good point by your endo. "Looking into other causes" should include a full thyroid panel which most endo's and md's do not consider once they see blood test result of low testosterone. T therapy will not work if your thyroid is not functioning properly. Here is a great explanation of how symptoms of low T and hypothyroidism are very much alike:

https://www.restartmed.com/thyroid-symptoms-men/

Blood test for thyroid should include FT4, FT3, ReverseT3 ( very important), and thyroid antibodies.

My balls shrunk big time and HCG did not restore them. I’m unhappy about this and sometimes wish I had not started for that reason.

 

[Joey786]

After about a year on trt I started to regret going on. I learned later that ai’s weren’t necessary. When I dropped the ai libido and erectile function improved dramatically. I still have thyroid issues. I believe the body changes with time and we need slight changes in our protocol every once and awhile. Just a side note aerobic exercise has been key in maintaining excellent erections. If your not doing cardio please start.

 

[themud]

44 when I started injections. Called it a fog, but it was a headache for 18 months.

I was always healthy, ate healthy, got plenty of rest. Biggest stress was self employed and wife. I did triathlons, ultramarathons, hiking.

I was always tired, could barely workout and mow my lawn and clean garage in the same day without recovering for a day. I use to be the energizer bunny. Could not figure out why workouts were getting worse and gaining wait unless I did 24 hour fasts at least 2x/week.
Read, read, read and read some more. Looked at this site, peakt, allthingsmale. Took me 6 months to finally decide to get blood work.

TT 365, everything else was good. Although 365 was within normal limits the Dr. said a little low.

She wanted to do pellets, but reading and learning I knew I was on my own unless I got on Defy which I didn't want to spend. I asked for injections and she was ok with it.

I was scared out of my mind when my nipples started hurting like hell. She said normal.

Now: My workouts actually work. I am muscular and usually 2 weeks out from a full six pack. Libido is great, when before it was only so/so.

My biggest suggestions. Eat right, get the right amount of sleep. Exercise like your life depended on it. I have experimented with it over 1 1/2 years and what has caused good times and bad. The bad: bad eating habits, lack of sleep. The good: exercise has helped regulate E2 with high intensity workouts like tabata, no rest between lifts, sprints, airdyne.

If I get a good nights sleep my wood is strong in the morning and my libido is good. When I drink alcohol too much I start feeling shitty and I might as well tape calories on my belly.

I do not regret it at all except shrunken nuts that tuck up. My wife said she didn't notice, but I do.

 

[Nomad]

Hi guys

I'm almost at the point where my endo, after long discussions, is at least open to trying TRT.

He gave a long talk though that he has a lot of patients in his practice that were prescribed TRT by doctors who were not really looking into other causes, and now they are stuck with a "life-long commitment", they regret it now (or don't want to commit to life-long treatment) and he is busy trying to restore their f*cked up hormonal axis.

So my question is:

Any of you guys who has started TRT - and regretted it afterwards, for whatever reasons?

Thx

Yes, this is me. I had all the signs of low T, and tested fairly consistently in the low 400s once in the high 600s.

I’m on TRT through a clinic and paying more than I could afford and a year later I’m slightly worse off than when I began.

My TRT clinic does really suck though and thinks 45pg e2 is okay...

 

[lebo1965]

I regret it also . This was due to poor protocols , no professional knowledgeable advice and misguided into going down a life time commitment without really needing TRT .
Yes, symptoms were there but it was unrelated to testosterone and the doctor in Dubai saw me as cash cow and took shots for 3 years without proper monitoring .
Stopped October 2016 , unimaginable daily suffering while my system was kicking back with clomid , some hcg , etc,, for approximately 1 year and and a half and till date my testosterone levels have not come back to baseline ( that is not always the case ; ask me ) but started living again and no more brain fog

 

[HealthMan]

My balls shrunk big time and HCG did not restore them. I’m unhappy about this and sometimes wish I had not started for that reason.

Try FSH see if that helps with testicular volume

 

[MarkM]

My balls shrunk big time and HCG did not restore them. I’m unhappy about this and sometimes wish I had not started for that reason.

Wow, I just don't understand your philosophy.........and HCG did nothing for my testicular atrophy either.............but:

Let me see my options; I can take testosterone, feel better and improve my overall health even though my testicles shrink or I can keep testicle size, continue to feel like crap, and have deteriorating health? Which should I choose??????

I guess I'd have to give up testicle size.

How many people in a life time actually see them other than yourself anyway? How much time do you spend in the mirror looking at them and sizing them up? If you were to make a list of things in your life that are most important to you, would testicle size rank higher than your health and how you feel?

 

[Charliebizz]

Wow, i just don't understand your philosophy.........and HCG did nothing for my testicular atrophy either.............but:

Let me see my options; I can take testosterone, feel better and improve my overall health even though my testicles shrink or I can keep testicle size, continue to feel like crap, and have deteriorating health? Which should I choose??????

I guess I'd have to give up testicle size.

How many people in a life time actually see them other than yourself anyway? How much time do you spend in the mirror looking at them and sizing them up? If you were to make a list of things in your life that are most important to you, would testicle size rank higher than your health and how you feel?

Testicle produce other hormones the. Just teststosterone. What is the long term side effects of that? Most people on these forums don’t tolerate back filling with all the precursor hormones

 

[MarkM]

Testicle produce other hormones the. Just teststosterone. What is the long term side effects of that? Most people on these forums don’t tolerate back filling with all the precursor hormones

I'm not sure what you are asking. My comment to another forum member was because that forum member stated that sometimes he wishes he had not started TRT because his balls shrunk big time.

 

[Charliebizz]

I'm not sure what you are asking. My comment to another forum member was because that forum member stated that sometimes he wishes he had not started TRT because his balls shrunk big time.

I’m just saying shrinking testies have other Repercussions other then sheer asthetics. But also if you feel good and have no other side effects I guess it’s a risk vs remarks thing. It always made me nervous when I was on trt to think about long term shutdown. Plus trt lowered my already borderline low cortisol and I have low normal shbg so I’m kind of jaded

 

[brad nyc]

44 when I started injections. Called it a fog, but it was a headache for 18 months.

I was always healthy, ate healthy, got plenty of rest. Biggest stress was self employed and wife. I did triathlons, ultramarathons, hiking.

I was always tired, could barely workout and mow my lawn and clean garage in the same day without recovering for a day. I use to be the energizer bunny. Could not figure out why workouts were getting worse and gaining wait unless I did 24 hour fasts at least 2x/week.
Read, read, read and read some more. Looked at this site, peakt, allthingsmale. Took me 6 months to finally decide to get blood work.

TT 365, everything else was good. Although 365 was within normal limits the Dr. said a little low.

She wanted to do pellets, but reading and learning I knew I was on my own unless I got on Defy which I didn't want to spend. I asked for injections and she was ok with it.

I was scared out of my mind when my nipples started hurting like hell. She said normal.

Now: My workouts actually work. I am muscular and usually 2 weeks out from a full six pack. Libido is great, when before it was only so/so.

My biggest suggestions. Eat right, get the right amount of sleep. Exercise like your life depended on it. I have experimented with it over 1 1/2 years and what has caused good times and bad. The bad: bad eating habits, lack of sleep. The good: exercise has helped regulate E2 with high intensity workouts like tabata, no rest between lifts, sprints, airdyne.

If I get a good nights sleep my wood is strong in the morning and my libido is good. When I drink alcohol too much I start feeling shitty and I might as well tape calories on my belly.

I do not regret it at all except shrunken nuts that tuck up. My wife said she didn't notice, but I do.

Hi - Great post. Were you not taking HCG to avoid the shrinkage issue? If not, would love to know what the thinking was. Thanks.

 

[albert9000]

been on for 7 years. Wish I would have tried to cure my low T naturally before jumping into TRT. I too had major brain fog and dizziness before starting. My challenge has been that a protocol works for about 2-3 months and things start building up like estrogen (then the brain fog returns and other symptoms due to high estrogen) then you have to have an AI which feels like poison to me. Still haven't found that happy medium Blood work history below.

70 MG twice weekly IM
HCG 500 twice weekly IM
No AI
Serm 2 nightly
995 total T
49 estrogen
Bloated face and ED/preejac

200 T once per week IM
HCG 500 MWF
.25 AI twice weekly
Serm 2 nightly
1105 Total T on day 7
25 estrogen
Joints hurt and body feels poisoned by AI

50 MG twice weekly IM
HCG 500 twice weekly IM
No AI
495 Total T
40 Estrogen
Feel tired and low T

How do you feel now in regards to brainfog/dizziness? Im currently struggling with that and recently started trt

 

[themud]

Hi - Great post. Were you not taking HCG to avoid the shrinkage issue? If not, would love to know what the thinking was. Thanks.

No HCG. I don't want to take anything else, especially knowing I am dialed in. My wife is the only one privileged to get at my junk, so I don't care aesthetically. I am good looking and in great shape for a soon to be 47 yr old. Other than the low T I am blessed with good genes.

I have no problem setting appointments 2-3x/yr for blood work and discount T at Walgreens I am paying $28.00 for it. Blood work is $75. Using 10-13 mg/day it can last a long time. Costs less any of my hobbies and takes 90 seconds a day to inject.

If I think about doing this for the next 30 years I could be overwhelmingly irritated, but so could knowing I have to brush my teeth or wipe my ass too. I have physical hobbies in hunting, fly fishing, training my dog and wife, a physical job. I could do them half-assed or do them full of vigor and have energy to boink the wife later.

When I get tired of it and want to be miserable I'll stop. My businesses and personal life depend on my attitude and energy level.

 

[themud]

A9000,
Brain fog/headache was the worst. I literally took 4+ tablets of vitamin Ibuprofen daily and knew it was bad for me.

I felt fogginess disappear almost instantly. My T was only 365, but it must have been low enough to affect me.

My thoughts are to read a ton and ignore your local Dr. They don't know shit.