For Nelson Vergel, what’s your current protocol?

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Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
  • To confirm, the numbers above are your E3.5D trough on the protocol?
  • How much TT/fT impact do you get from the hCG on your trough?
  • fT measurement is equilibrium dialysis?
  • SHBG?
1- Yes
2- Good question. Never looked at the effect of hCG but I can bet it increased free T like any androgen.
3- Yes. Gold standard. Testosterone, Total, LC/MS and Free (Equilibrium Dialysis)
4- I hardly measure it as long as my FT is over 2% of TT.
 
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Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
I want to add a list of prescription products I have tried (the ones I remember):

Testosterone cypionate, enanthate, propionate, undecanoate and Sustanon mix.

Gels/creams: Androgel, Testim, compounded creams (regular and Atrevis base)

Testopel

Compounded hCG

Compounded pregnenolone

Nandrolone, oxandrolone, stanozolol

Human growth hormone (Serostim), ibutamoren, ipamorelin, sermorelin, PT-141

Metformin

Naltrexone

Trimix, Quadmix

Ketamine Troches

ED drugs (all approved ones)
 

GreenMachineX

Well-Known Member
Any protocol that reduces your chances of long term HDL suppression and high hematocrit may be the way to go.

Back in the days when I was concerned about wasting, I used 200 mg testosterone plus 200 mg nandrolone per week. I reduced it to 100 mg of each after two years and stayed on it for probably two years more (I used to stop nandrolone for 2 months until I started observing any potential unintentional weight loss).

To be honest, I am 63 years old and cannot definitely tell you if I did any permanent damage to my cardiovascular system with long term nandrolone plus T use. I get a complete cardiovascular assessment once per year. My only issue is high blood pressure (which I treat). On nandrolone, my HDL averaged 30 and hematocrit 50. My LDL has always been good. My calcium score is not the best (100) but that is common in people with long term HIV with no exposure to anabolics.

"Individuals infected with HIV have a significantly increased risk for a variety of cardiovascular complications, including acute myocardial infarction,2 heart failure with both reduced and preserved ejection fraction,3 sudden cardiac death,4 peripheral arterial disease,5 and stroke." Ref: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.118.036211#:~:text=Individuals infected with HIV have,arterial disease,5 and stroke.


I am glad I used nandrolone. I am convinced that it saved my life. For some, steroid use builds hope

I stopped nandrolone around 2008 since it made my blood pressure significantly go up (water retention related) and also found out it really did not help at all with visceral fat.

What's your RBC, HGB, and HCT without nandrolone?

I'm so sick of the erythrocytosis; even 4mg daily is pushing my HGB to 17.7 which I'm sure will be mid to high 18's if I don't make another adjustment.
 

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
What's your RBC, HGB, and HCT without nandrolone?

I'm so sick of the erythrocytosis
HCT stays around 50. If your hematocrit has not stabilized after a year on stable dosing of under 200 mg/week of TRT, look into doing a sleep study to detect sleep apnea. I assume that you do not smoke.

 

GreenMachineX

Well-Known Member
HCT stays around 50. If your hematocrit has not stabilized after a year on stable dosing of under 200 mg/week of TRT, look into doing a sleep study to detect sleep apnea. I assume that you do not smoke.

I've been on TRT about 8 years, don't smoke and had a sleep study done a couple years before TRT. It's getting very frustrating.
 

Gman86

Member
I am glad I used nandrolone. I am convinced that it saved my life. For some, steroid use builds hope
Jc, do u think that u would have faired just as well, in regards to surviving having HIV back then, using test at say 400mg/ week, opposed to 200mg test and 200mg nandrolone? Or do u think that there was something specifically about the addition of nandrolone that allowed u to survive back then, vs just being on test alone?
 
T

tareload

Guest
1- Yes
2- Good question. Never looked at the effect of hCG but I can bet it increased free T like any androgen.
3- Yes. Gold standard. Testosterone, Total, LC/MS and Free (Equilibrium Dialysis)
4- I hardly measure it as long as my FT is over 2% of TT.

1. Thank you for confirming.

2. Understood on the endogenous fT production that may be increased with the use of hCG. Exogenous androgen use coupled with TRT may lower your SHBG and hence TT while using exogenous testosterone. Hence with TRT + hCG your absolute fT (ng/dl) may increase over TRT alone. In contrast, with TRT + another androgen (say oxandrolone which lowers SHBG), you absolute fT would stay constant and your fT percent (fT/TT) would increase. absolute fT would only increase on oxandrolone (for example) if it interfered with your fT metabolism/elimination rate.

3. Thanks for confirming.

4. What were any historical numbers? I find it fascinating to bracket what your estimated SHBG would be based on cfTV and cfTZ. cfTV says your SHBG is 39 nM. You don't want to know what cfTZ indicates :).
 

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
in regards to surviving having HIV back then, using test at say 400mg/ week, opposed to 200mg test and 200mg nandrolone? Or do u think that there was something specifically about the addition of nandrolone that allowed u to survive back then, vs just being on test alone?
Very good question.

I could have put of lean mass either way (high dose T versus 200/200 T+nandrolone). But nandrolone really reduces potential androgenic side effects that high dose may bring (more edema, acne, hair loss, high blood pressure, sleep disturbances, overheating, etc)
 
T

tareload

Guest
What's your RBC, HGB, and HCT without nandrolone?

I'm so sick of the erythrocytosis; even 4mg daily is pushing my HGB to 17.7 which I'm sure will be mid to high 18's if I don't make another adjustment.
What was the outcome from the hematology consult? IIRC I recommended you screen for hemochromatosis and make sure you have a knowledge practitioner help you evaluate your results in context to your personal history.
 

GreenMachineX

Well-Known Member
What was the outcome from the hematology consult? IIRC I recommended you screen for hemochromatosis and make sure you have a knowledge practitioner help you evaluate your results in context to your personal history.
That may have been someone else, I don't recall, but I was tested for hemochromatosis about 4 years ago and it was negative. That hematologist wasn't concerned with my hematocrit at 54 either.
 

Jed Dorsey

Active Member
My protocol is simple:

50 mg twice per week (either cypionate or enanthate, no difference) plus 500 IU hCG twice per week injected on delts at 90 degrees using a 27 gauge 1/2 inch syringe.

I used to bring in nandrolone or oxandrolone on and off to the combo but as I get older I have become more sensitive to increased blood pressure using more androgens. That us why I have the build I have (years of T plus these compounds plus resistance exercise).

No AI ever.

Supplements:

Vitamin D 5,0000 IU
Coenzyme Q10 400 mg
B-50 complex every other night
Zinc/Copper 25 mg/3 mcg
NAC 600 mg twice per day
Melatonin 10 mg per night (Gummies)
A multimineral every other day
Digestive enzymes with every meal (IBS)
Creatine 5 grams with coffee before the gym
Bacillus Coagulans 6 billion organisms twice per day
7-Keto DHEA 50 mg (Bloodwork showed low DHEA)

Meds:

For blood pressure: Amiloride 5 mg (potassium sparing mild antidiuretic) plus amlodipine 5 mg (calcium channel blocker). Tried telmisartan and others but they made me tired.

Zolpidem as needed (5 mg)

B-12 shots: 1000 mcg twice per week

Tried pregnenolone up to 400 mg per day but it increased my blood pressure.

Off Trintellix (5 mg) three months ago.

I have lost 12 pounds from my normal but I still look OK for 63 and 37 years with HIV.


View attachment 22317
I gotta ask how recent is this photograph?
 
T

tareload

Guest
@Nelson Vergel . Also curious, why 7 Keto DHEA over regular DHEA?
I am still assessing this.

"Mechanistically, 7-keto may prevent the conversion of cortisone into cortisol by competitively interfering with the enzyme that mediates the conversion
Application of 25mg 7-keto via a cream for 8 days has failed to significantly modify circulating cortisol levels over 100 days of assessment in otherwise healthy male volunteers.[22]

Despite the above mechanisms, not enough evidence assessing the levels of circulating cortisol following 7-keto supplementation" From: 7-Keto DHEA Research Breakdown
 

Gman86

Member
Very good question.

I could have put of lean mass either way (high dose T versus 200/200 T+nandrolone). But nandrolone really reduces potential androgenic side effects that high dose may bring (more edema, acne, hair loss, high blood pressure, sleep disturbances, overheating, etc)
Was just re-listening to an old dr Lichten podcast on Crohn’s disease, and he was interviewing a crohn’s patient that he had treated, and the patient said he had actually figured out how to treat the crohn’s with anabolic steroids before he even went to dr Lichten, based off of old HIV studies/ research. Crohn’s is an autoimmune disease, and he figured it might be able to be treated similarly to HIV, due to HIV also being a disease of the immune system. Dr Lichten has been using nandrolone as his “secret weapon” compound for many years, to treat many ailments people are dealing with, including this patient with crohn’s. So nandrolone might actually have beneficial properties, that test alone doesn’t offer, when it comes to treating certain conditions. Mainly conditions dealing with inflammation and the immune system, from what I’ve gathered. Here’s the podcast if anyone wants to check it out

 

GreenMachineX

Well-Known Member
Very good question.

I could have put of lean mass either way (high dose T versus 200/200 T+nandrolone). But nandrolone really reduces potential androgenic side effects that high dose may bring (more edema, acne, hair loss, high blood pressure, sleep disturbances, overheating, etc)
Did oxandrolone effect your rbc, hemoglobin and hematocrit?
 

The rockph

New Member
Nelson I've been a long time follower I'm so confused been on trt for over 4 years I hear some touting micro dosing daily what is the difference between your protocol and others very confusing thanks for your help
 
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