enclomiphene - shbg levels

[tLearner]

I've tried to see effects of enclomiphene on SHBG levels. Seen a study but lost the link for it. I think it was a study done as part of FDA approval. I've also seen a few different people posting before and after blood test results in a few different forums.

It's starting to seem that maybe if one starts with low SHBG it may and raise it and vice versa. Has anyone examined this idea? Also how frequency and dosing may impact SHBG and other parts of physiology?

 

[Cataceous]

This study found not much change, which matches my experience. It may be that the anecdotal results are reflecting indirect influences: changes in estradiol and testosterone, which are known to have significant effects.

 

[tLearner]

This study found not much change, which matches my experience. It may be that the anecdotal results are reflecting indirect influences: changes in estradiol and testosterone, which are known to have significant effects.

Thanks. I agree that anecdotal results are of limited use but I was kinda guessing the same as you. However why exactly this would be isn't explained clearly anywhere I've seen or studied it would seem.

If it's true that the indirect effects of the therapy change SHBG and often after stopping treatment TT returns back to normal it leads me to think that it may be possible to use enclomiphene to modulate SHBG.

EDIT: i wrote anywhere but mean anywhere I know of. I've heard about free T decreasing SHBG but not in detail

 

[tLearner]

this is a quote from another forum ....

I just got my test results of 12/21/20 (with enclomiphene) with minor but some odd variations.

DHEA: 417 mcg/dL, Estradiol (sensitive) 26 pg/mL, Total T 757 ng/dL, Free T 75.4 pg/mL, SHBG 74 nmol/L.

Since 11/06/20, (when I was on Clomid), all of my levels have dropped to some degree except DHEA. It’s still early but it seems enclomiphene has had some positive effect on my SHBG and Estradiol levels. DHEA is no mystery as my dosage was rather high. I’ll cut back.

What’s a little curious is in my last 2 labs my Total T has dropped despite the relatively high dosage compared to my previous Clomid dosage. Before, Clomid 12.5 mg at 3 times a week would easily bring levels up towards 1000. Yet now, enclomiphene dosage at 12.5 mg 7 days a week, has lowered TT levels. Free T dropped a little too.

Otherwise I’ve been feeling some subtle improvements of libido, still low, but enough to be guardedly optimistic. Perhaps hormone levels are still in process.


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enclomiphene dropping shbg, again
Am I the only one noticing this and talking about it? People suggest Proviron which may be good but I think enclomiphene is possibly better tbh. The modality is probably the same except one is potentially suppressive and has other effects which may or may not be desired.

 

[TLawyer]

this is a quote from another forum ....

I just got my test results of 12/21/20 (with enclomiphene) with minor but some odd variations.

DHEA: 417 mcg/dL, Estradiol (sensitive) 26 pg/mL, Total T 757 ng/dL, Free T 75.4 pg/mL, SHBG 74 nmol/L.

Since 11/06/20, (when I was on Clomid), all of my levels have dropped to some degree except DHEA. It’s still early but it seems enclomiphene has had some positive effect on my SHBG and Estradiol levels. DHEA is no mystery as my dosage was rather high. I’ll cut back.

What’s a little curious is in my last 2 labs my Total T has dropped despite the relatively high dosage compared to my previous Clomid dosage. Before, Clomid 12.5 mg at 3 times a week would easily bring levels up towards 1000. Yet now, enclomiphene dosage at 12.5 mg 7 days a week, has lowered TT levels. Free T dropped a little too.

Otherwise I’ve been feeling some subtle improvements of libido, still low, but enough to be guardedly optimistic. Perhaps hormone levels are still in process.


----------------------------------------------------------------

enclomiphene dropping shbg, again
Am I the only one noticing this and talking about it? People suggest Proviron which may be good but I think enclomiphene is possibly better tbh. The modality is probably the same except one is potentially suppressive and has other effects which may or may not be desired.

My SHBG increased with every day enclomiphene use (12.5 mg), as did my total and free T and E2 (E2 I think too much).

 

[Cataceous]

...
What’s a little curious is in my last 2 labs my Total T has dropped despite the relatively high dosage compared to my previous Clomid dosage. Before, Clomid 12.5 mg at 3 times a week would easily bring levels up towards 1000. Yet now, enclomiphene dosage at 12.5 mg 7 days a week, has lowered TT levels. Free T dropped a little too.
...

Two possible factors come to mind:

• If SHBG goes down and free testosterone doesn't change then it's expected for total testosterone to be lower. You can explore this effect with a free T calculator. Enter starting total testosterone and SHBG. Note the free testosterone. Now enter the lower SHBG and adjust the total testosterone until the free testosterone number matches what it was with higher SHBG. Total testosterone is now lower. For example, TT=800 ng/dL, SHBG=80 nMol/L -> fT=9.64 ng/dL. If SHBG drops to 50 then TT drops to 585 ng/dL.

• It's a known property of hCG that if the dose gets too high then testosterone production actually decreases. I've assumed this could be true for endogenous LH as well. Have you been monitoring LH? It's possible that in effectively taking almost four times (7 / (3 * 60%)) as much enclomiphene you have gone beyond the point of peak testosterone production.

 

[goolapsh]

Two possible factors come to mind:

• If SHBG goes down and free testosterone doesn't change then it's expected for total testosterone to be lower. You can explore this effect with a free T calculator. Enter starting total testosterone and SHBG. Note the free testosterone. Now enter the lower SHBG and adjust the total testosterone until the free testosterone number matches what it was with higher SHBG. Total testosterone is now lower. For example, TT=800 ng/dL, SHBG=80 nMol/L -> fT=9.64 ng/dL. If SHBG drops to 50 then TT drops to 585 ng/dL.

• It's a known property of hCG that if the dose gets too high then testosterone production actually decreases. I've assumed this could be true for endogenous LH as well. Have you been monitoring LH? It's possible that in effectively taking almost four times (7 / (3 * 60%)) as much enclomiphene you have gone beyond the point of peak testosterone production.

Is anyone bothered by the fact they are taking a pharmaceutical to boost testosterone? I mean I was taking Enclomiphene to ween myself off test (second time now) but I’m really not comfortable taking it. I don’t like taking any pharmaceuticals to be honest but taking something like clomid/Enclomiphene long term just seems counterproductive to living a healthy/ pharmaceutical free lifestyle.

 

[tLearner]

Is anyone bothered by the fact they are taking a pharmaceutical to boost testosterone? I mean I was taking Enclomiphene to ween myself off test (second time now) but I’m really not comfortable taking it. I don’t like taking any pharmaceuticals to be honest but taking something like clomid/Enclomiphene long term just seems counterproductive to living a healthy/ pharmaceutical free lifestyle.

Yes and no. I'm not taking it long term and I've seen little evidence that it is very wise in comparison to what lots of people say .... if you need enclomiphene or serms etc long term trt would be more sensible. Even short term I consider to be risky enough.

Two possible factors come to mind:

• If SHBG goes down and free testosterone doesn't change then it's expected for total testosterone to be lower. You can explore this effect with a free T calculator. Enter starting total testosterone and SHBG. Note the free testosterone. Now enter the lower SHBG and adjust the total testosterone until the free testosterone number matches what it was with higher SHBG. Total testosterone is now lower. For example, TT=800 ng/dL, SHBG=80 nMol/L -> fT=9.64 ng/dL. If SHBG drops to 50 then TT drops to 585 ng/dL.

• It's a known property of hCG that if the dose gets too high then testosterone production actually decreases. I've assumed this could be true for endogenous LH as well. Have you been monitoring LH? It's possible that in effectively taking almost four times (7 / (3 * 60%)) as much enclomiphene you have gone beyond the point of peak testosterone production.

That post I made was very probably stupid. It's another person's post not mine. The assumption I made that his TT would remain about the same and SHBG would continue to fall because "enclomiphene doesn't raise SHBG" is probably false and the truth is probably more complicated.

I'm going to continue to investigate this because I have high SHBG and want to learn to control it however I think I'll need to pay more attention to detail and the multiple factors that affect both my physiology and the status of people included in studies.

The second point you make is probably relevant to me. I'm taking some enclomiphene and feel the effects quite strongly tbh. I'm dropping the frequency of dosing in response. Going to get retested sooner than planned too.

 

[Cataceous]

Is anyone bothered by the fact they are taking a pharmaceutical to boost testosterone? ...

If you mean "non-endogenous pharmaceutical" then yes, it is a concern. But more so because its effects and the long-term consequences are not so well understood. I'm taking it to boost gonadotropins, not testosterone.

Yes and no. I'm not taking it long term and I've seen little evidence that it is very wise in comparison to what lots of people say .... if you need enclomiphene or serms etc long term trt would be more sensible. Even short term I consider to be risky enough.
...

The counterpoint is that there are also potential risks in conventional TRT. The suppression of GnRH in particular is worrisome because of its many sites of action in the body.

 

[tLearner]

The counterpoint is that there are also potential risks in conventional TRT. The suppression of GnRH in particular is worrisome because of its many sites of action in the body.

That's what I just started reading about.

If you mean "non-endogenous pharmaceutical" then yes, it is a concern. But more so because its effects and the long-term consequences are not so well understood. I'm taking it to boost gonadotropins, not testosterone.

I'm taking it to boost T. Wouldn't feel confident to advise it though.