Any other Prop blend options?

50BMGdoesitforme · Sunday at 9:12 AM

Hey all. My low-T symptoms were mostly related to ED; after years on cyp with very little success, I tried enanthate, which was a noticeable improvement. Two months ago I started the 75% cyp/25% prop blend from Empower and it's been the best by far. I'm not quite where I'd like to be yet and would very much like to explore options, either a higher percentage of prop or replacing the cyp with enanthate since I respond better to that.

Unfortunately, the only prop that Empower offers is the 75% cyp/25% prop blend - does anybody know of anywhere that offers any other options?

Also if there's any general theory on why this blend might be working so much better for me I'd be very grateful to hear it - I'm low SHBG and inject every morning. I know that prop is a fast ester and cyp is slow - I just don't understand much beyond that! If it makes any difference, even when injecting cyp x2/week I never have felt better or worse at any point during the injection cycle - I know some guys feel good at the peak and bad at the trough, but I've always pretty much felt the same throughout. Daily injections did make a positive difference overall.

Many thanks for any wisdom!

Vince · Sunday at 11:57 AM

Half-life numbers seem to be 5 days for cypionate, 4.5 days for enanthate, and 0.8 days for propionate.

Some feel better with a protocol that matches closer to their natural production of testosterone.

Cataceous · Monday at 6:44 AM

Unfortunately the DIY approach is likely the only option for getting a propionate blend with a higher fraction of propionate. Discussed in detail here:

W

Thread 'Tips on how to blend propionate with enanthate (or cypionate)?'

May 26, 2021

I have been having some success with low dose daily propionate for the last several months. Dose levels have ranged from 8-10 mg injected every morning after waking. Overall, it has been a far better experience than my previous cypionate protocol of 80-100 per week (split every 3.5 days). Evidently, I am one of those guys who responds better to daily variation versus steady state (along with smaller, more frequent doses).

However, straight propionate hits hard and fast as you many of you know, resulting in a steep daily drop-off from peak to trough. I enjoy the energy it brings, but it...

Obtaining pharma-grade propionate may be a challenge. There was a thread not too long ago on this. A couple possibilities that have been mentioned:

Wells Pharmacy Network - Compounding Pharmacy in Ocala, FL

Nationwide Compounding Pharmacy specializing in wellness, anti-aging, weight management, sexual wellness, aesthetic dermatology and thyroid.

wellsrx.com

WP Pharma Labs - Compounding Pharmacy in Dallas TX

Compounding Pharmacy specializing in functional medicine, anti-aging, weight management, sexual wellness, and aesthetic dermatology.

wppharmalabs.com

UGL is still pretty easy to obtain. The Pharmacom brand displays more professionalism than most.

The underlying mechanisms for improvements seen with a propionate blend are the subject of speculation. As Vince implies, it's natural for us to have a daily variation in serum testosterone—so it's plausible that a lack thereof causes problems. Some report improved sleep while using a blend, suggesting that constant mid-to-high testosterone levels are too stimulating. The implication is that periodic lower levels may be beneficial. It's been suggested that this is giving androgen receptors a break, but this is probably oversimplified. In any case, the success of testosterone nasal gel supports the premise that it's ok to have mid-to-upper range levels for only a fraction of the day, with lower levels otherwise.

Like you, I do not discern the variation in levels with a propionate blend. I'm skeptical that they'd be that noticeable if they are within the physiological range for the individual. We don't usually see men claiming to detect such variation in their natural levels. I do detect a burst after injecting ester-less testosterone. But in this case even small doses are sending levels well into supraphysiological territory, albeit for relatively short periods.

50BMGdoesitforme · Tuesday at 9:58 PM

Gents, thank you very much for these responses - this is just the info I needed! I'd not heard of either of these pharmacies; I see that Wells has straight prop but no enanthate - maybe I'll give WP Pharma a call in the morning and see if they might have both so I can try to get both from the same place. I remember calling Empower once to check prices on something (probably enanthate) and they wouldn't give me a price unless I had a prescription already...which...sort of defeats the purpose of price-checking...alas.

Cataceous, that makes a lot of sense about our natural rhythms; often I'd notice that if I'd miss a dose I'd feel better, which this may well explain. I'm thinking of trying 50/50 prop and enanthate next. It really was a morale-killer for me to spend years trying to get my free T and E2 right where they should be and still have terrible ED - the little bit of success I've seen with 25% prop has given me a great deal of hope. Many thanks for all the help on this!!

Willyt · Wednesday at 2:08 PM

50BMGdoesitforme said:
Gents, thank you very much for these responses - this is just the info I needed! I'd not heard of either of these pharmacies; I see that Wells has straight prop but no enanthate - maybe I'll give WP Pharma a call in the morning and see if they might have both so I can try to get both from the same place. I remember calling Empower once to check prices on something (probably enanthate) and they wouldn't give me a price unless I had a prescription already...which...sort of defeats the purpose of price-checking...alas.

Cataceous, that makes a lot of sense about our natural rhythms; often I'd notice that if I'd miss a dose I'd feel better, which this may well explain. I'm thinking of trying 50/50 prop and enanthate next. It really was a morale-killer for me to spend years trying to get my free T and E2 right where they should be and still have terrible ED - the little bit of success I've seen with 25% prop has given me a great deal of hope. Many thanks for all the help on this!!

I have experimented a lot with blends thanks to Cat. But so you know, you don't have to actually blend the TE and TP into a sterile vial to try it.

When you are first starting, you can simply inject the TP separately from the TE. No big deal when you are using 5/16 31 gauge needles injecting Subq. This way you can experiment with different ratios without mixing up a whole batch.

For example, I ended up liking 3:1 ratio the best versus Cat's 4:3 or 1:1.

50BMGdoesitforme · Wednesday at 4:53 PM

Willy, what a brilliant idea - thank you! I've been drawing with a 21g and then swapping to 25g before injecting subq. I tried using the 31g syringes to draw but it seemed to take absolutely forever, but now that I'm injecting only .125 mL daily, I'll give the 31-gauges a try again.

I was surprised to find that I didn't really see any benefit to my current 75%cyp/25%prop blend for about two months - I had read that with prop one generally doesn't have to wait as long to see how effective a new protocol would be. What has your experience been with length of time to see changes?

One last question - when you're talking about ratios, I assume you're talking about mg:mg and not mL:mL since the different types of test can be in different concentrations!

Many thanks for all the help - I truly appreciate it!

Cataceous · Wednesday at 8:41 PM

50BMGdoesitforme said:
... I tried using the 31g syringes to draw but it seemed to take absolutely forever, ...

Solution: A quick-and-dirty auto-loader.

C

Post in thread 'Need help with T-Cypionate - Vials (Single vs. multiple - What do you guys use?)'

Jun 1, 2023

I like 31 gauge needles, but don't like the slow manual draw with oil-based solutions. The answer is a quick-and-dirty auto-loader. You only need a piece of wire to suspend the vial and a piece of wood or plastic to keep the plunger in the desired position. This way you can do something else while the syringe loads.

50BMGdoesitforme said:
...
One last question - when you're talking about ratios, I assume you're talking about mg:mg and not mL:mL since the different types of test can be in different concentrations!
...

Yes. I had originally found that getting roughly the same amount of testosterone from each ester led to a diurnal variation in levels comparable to high-end natural variation seen in young men. The longer esters have lower testosterone content than propionate, which is how I ended up using four parts enanthate to three parts propionate—by weight.

Willyt · 2025-11-20T14:10:07-0600

50BMGdoesitforme said:
Willy, what a brilliant idea - thank you! I've been drawing with a 21g and then swapping to 25g before injecting subq. I tried using the 31g syringes to draw but it seemed to take absolutely forever, but now that I'm injecting only .125 mL daily, I'll give the 31-gauges a try again.

I was surprised to find that I didn't really see any benefit to my current 75%cyp/25%prop blend for about two months - I had read that with prop one generally doesn't have to wait as long to see how effective a new protocol would be. What has your experience been with length of time to see changes?

One last question - when you're talking about ratios, I assume you're talking about mg:mg and not mL:mL since the different types of test can be in different concentrations!

Many thanks for all the help - I truly appreciate it!

Here are the needles I prefer. Like you said, drawing small amount does not take long. Injecting into belly fat. Preparing 2nd injection takes barely any time at all.

W

Thread 'Daily SUBQers: 5 stars for BD Ultra-Fine Insulin Syringe - 31G 3/10cc 5/16"'

Jan 6, 2022

Like many on here, I started with harpoon needles from my general physician and then graduated (mercifully) to 29 gauge x 1/2 fixed insulin needles for shallow IM thanks to the advice of this forum. A year ago I moved on to low dose daily SUBQ and began using 31 gauge x 5/16.

For insulin needles, I had always used the Easy Touch brand. A syringe is a syringe, right? That’s what I thought until I tried BD (Becton Dickinson) brand 31 g x 5/16 x .3cc needle. BD claims on their website that “BD Insulin Syringes with BD Ultra-FineTM needle are the #1 selling brand in the United States.”...

Regarding protocol changes, I can feel TP dose changes very quickly within 1-2 days, but then again I am easily stimulated. Others like Cat cannot feel the difference for some time.

For units - many around here including myself prefer to speak in mg not mL since vials can have difference concentration levels of testosterone. It can get very confusing otherwise.

Let us know how it goes.