Tips on how to blend propionate with enanthate (or cypionate)?

Bigben

New Member
I actually just switched back to my other routine a few days ago. 10 mg suspension daily. Why? I get more bang for the amount. Here is the calculator to show. You can type in the 12.5 and 5 mg week 1 to 5 then 10 mg suspension week 6 to 10.
Here is the difference.
 

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camygod

Member
dont you find the suspension in and out your system too fast?
i wouldnt call 17.5mg of test a day a baby dose but its still low compared to some i guess
 

Bigben

New Member
dont you find the suspension in and out your system too fast?
i wouldnt call 17.5mg of test a day a baby dose but its still low compared to some i guess
I don't no. There's one study on horses but I can't desipher it properly but here it is. I'm sure this has been discussed before.
 

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Cataceous

Super Moderator
Here is the difference.
The site's model is a little too crude and/or buggy to make this point. In fact with 12.5 mg TE and 5 mg TP you're averaging over 13 mg of testosterone per day. With 10 mg of testosterone suspension you're getting only 10 mg. It's possible that peak serum testosterone goes higher with suspension, but then it would also be likely that trough testosterone goes lower. On the other hand, if the equine suspension pharmacokinetics were applicable to people then serum testosterone would be steadier than with the ester blend.
 

Bigben

New Member
The site's model is a little too crude and/or buggy to make this point. In fact with 12.5 mg TE and 5 mg TP you're averaging over 13 mg of testosterone per day. With 10 mg of testosterone suspension you're getting only 10 mg. It's possible that peak serum testosterone goes higher with suspension, but then it would also be likely that trough testosterone goes lower. On the other hand, if the equine suspension pharmacokinetics were applicable to people then serum testosterone would be steadier than with the ester blend.

The site's model is a little too crude and/or buggy to make this point. In fact with 12.5 mg TE and 5 mg TP you're averaging over 13 mg of testosterone per day. With 10 mg of testosterone suspension you're getting only 10 mg. It's possible that peak serum testosterone goes higher with suspension, but then it would also be likely that trough testosterone goes lower. On the other hand, if the equine suspension pharmacokinetics were applicable to people then serum testosterone would be steadier than with the ester blend.
Yeah I see what you mean. Still it rocks. I know on suspension I am way stronger. Even the day of. Great pumps. Upping weight fast. Feeling swole most of the day as long as I eat good. Will never get bored of suspension or test e mixed with p. Strength wise suspension wins by far. Plus you can change ur dose daily. Way more fun! Once I did 100 mg by mistake. Don't ask how. But wow! What a day! Lol
 

camygod

Member
I don't no. There's one study on horses but I can't desipher it properly but here it is. I'm sure this has been discussed before.
yes something to do with the crystals sticking around
i felt nothing from oil test base shame suspension is very hard to find in UK
i heard that oral test suspension works too when taken sub lingual
 

Bigben

New Member
yes something to do with the crystals sticking around
i felt nothing from oil test base shame suspension is very hard to find in UK
i heard that oral test suspension works too when taken sub
Lots of ugl out there. But the aquaviron by Abbott was the best. I used to have a good source for that. Still looking for another. There is a new Abbott in an orange box. Not as good.
 

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Willyt

Active Member
Finally tested my low dose daily propionate protocol. The results surprised me and illustrate why a blend could be useful.

I tested at peak (5 hours post shallow IM injection) since I wanted to see whether I was staying within normal physiological range. Here are the peak results on only 8mg of Prop daily:

* TT was 1267 (264-916 range)
* Free T (direct) 22 was at top of range (7.2 to 24)
* Hematocrit crept up from 48.6 to 50.3.
* Modest increase in E2 Sensitive from low 20s to 28
* Sizeable drop in SHBG from mid-40s to 34

Amazing that only 56mg of Prop per week can hit those numbers! That said, straight prop amps me up too much even at such a low dose. A blend could hopefully cut down those peaks to stay within physiological range.

I am going to give enanthate blend a try. Ideally there will be less water retention than I experienced on cypionate (15lbs versus zero on propionate) even though cyp and enanthate are very similar medium-term esters. I have read a number of anecdotal accounts of less fluid retention with enanthate so let's see.
 

goolapsh

Active Member
Finally tested my low dose daily propionate protocol. The results surprised me and illustrate why a blend could be useful.

I tested at peak (5 hours post shallow IM injection) since I wanted to see whether I was staying within normal physiological range. Here are the peak results on only 8mg of Prop daily:

* TT was 1267 (264-916 range)
* Free T (direct) 22 was at top of range (7.2 to 24)
* Hematocrit crept up from 48.6 to 50.3.
* Modest increase in E2 Sensitive from low 20s to 28
* Sizeable drop in SHBG from mid-40s to 34

Amazing that only 56mg of Prop per week can hit those numbers! That said, straight prop amps me up too much even at such a low dose. A blend could hopefully cut down those peaks to stay within physiological range.

I am going to give enanthate blend a try. Ideally there will be less water retention than I experienced on cypionate (15lbs versus zero on propionate) even though cyp and enanthate are very similar medium-term esters. I have read a number of anecdotal accounts of less fluid retention with enanthate so let's see.
Hows libido? That’s the ultimate test, cause all the other shit don’t matter without that.
 

madman

Super Moderator
Finally tested my low dose daily propionate protocol. The results surprised me and illustrate why a blend could be useful.

I tested at peak (5 hours post shallow IM injection) since I wanted to see whether I was staying within normal physiological range. Here are the peak results on only 8mg of Prop daily:

* TT was 1267 (264-916 range)
* Free T (direct) 22 was at top of range (7.2 to 24)
* Hematocrit crept up from 48.6 to 50.3.
* Modest increase in E2 Sensitive from low 20s to 28
* Sizeable drop in SHBG from mid-40s to 34

Amazing that only 56mg of Prop per week can hit those numbers! That said, straight prop amps me up too much even at such a low dose. A blend could hopefully cut down those peaks to stay within physiological range.

I am going to give enanthate blend a try. Ideally there will be less water retention than I experienced on cypionate (15lbs versus zero on propionate) even though cyp and enanthate are very similar medium-term esters. I have read a number of anecdotal accounts of less fluid retention with enanthate so let's see.

Hard to believe after all this time you would use/rely upon the piss poor direct immunoassay which is known to be inaccurate let alone post your FT.

With a TT 1267 ng/dL and normal SHBG 34 nmol/L, your FT is going to be absurdly high as in most likely mid-high 40 ng/dL.

Not.....Free T (direct) 22 was at top of range (7.2 to 24)

Useless assay!
 

Willyt

Active Member
Hard to believe after all this time you would use/rely upon the piss poor direct immunoassay which is known to be inaccurate let alone post your FT.

With a TT 1267 ng/dL and normal SHBG 34 nmol/L, your FT is going to be absurdly high as in most likely mid-high 40 ng/dL.

Not.....Free T (direct) 22 was at top of range (7.2 to 24)

Useless assay!
I knew you would give me shit for that lol. It's part of the standard Defy checkup test. Do they offer an alternative considering its Labcorp?
 

Willyt

Active Member
Hows libido? That’s the ultimate test, cause all the other shit don’t matter without that.
Completely agree and unfortunately TRT has never done much for my libido other than a few occasional flashes related to dose changes. And I've tried a number of different injection protocols in addition to cream. Like many on this board, I have concluded that FT is just one small piece of the libido puzzle.
 

Cataceous

Super Moderator
Interesting to see that it's in the Defy store now. However, at $106 it's not something I'd be likely to splurge on. Given the occasional problems with these more complicated tests I think that the average guy isn't necessarily any worse off if he instead looks at the Vermeulen and Tru-T numbers.
 

madman

Super Moderator
I knew you would give me shit for that lol. It's part of the standard Defy checkup test. Do they offer an alternative considering its Labcorp?

This is where I stand when it comes to testing FT!

I would not rely on the piss poor direct immunoassay let alone outdated calculated methods especially in cases of altered SHBG.

Although the newer cFTZ algorithm (TruT) should give fairly consistent results I would prefer to rely on direct testing using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration especially in cases of altered SHBG.

Again with a TT 1267 ng/dL and SHBG 34 nmol/L your FT will most likely be well over what would be considered the top end of healthy 16-31 ng/dL.

Stick to whatever method suits your fancy.



There are cheaper options!

Nelson's discountedlabs uses Quest Diagnostics.


1.Testosterone, Total, LC/MS and Free (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration) $47.00

2. Testosterone, Total, LC/MS and Free (Equilibrium Dialysis) + Hematocrit $68.07
 

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