What is the reason that nandrolone causes depression? (Mechanism of action)

[Pacman]

Nandrolone is literally the only thing (so far) that helps me manage shoulder pain due to my cervical radiculopathy. But even at low doses (~60 mg a week), I seem to get very depressed on it, and feel "flatlined" about life in general. Good news is that even at 60 mg it helps immensely.

I've been watching this video:

In the video they theorize it is related to progesterone activity (6:15 - they referred to a parallel of women taking progesterone birth control methods and how it is similar to nandrolone)

In the comments below the video people have posting their solutions and different stuff that worked for them in managing mental sides, including somebody who says he took a low dose of Adderall every day to help reduce the depressive side effects.

But if Adderall would reduce the depression, wouldn't that mean that the depression is more related to dopamine, or lack thereof?

Are there any known mechanisms in which nandrolone causes depression and emotional flatlining? In other words, do we know WHY it happens? And if so, are there known ways on HOW to combat it?

 

[Belekas]

Are you adding Nandrolone on Test base and what is your dose if so?

 

[Pacman]

Are you adding Nandrolone on Test base and what is your dose if so?

Yes, test base. I haven't taken nandrolone in a long while, but when I did, my regimen was: 240 mg/wk Testosterone and 60mg/wk Nandrolone. (Both split into two even doses a week, of 140 and 25 respectively. No AIs.)

Current regimen is 280 mg/wk Testosterone, split into daily injections (40 mg/daily), no AIs. (I feel more stable injecting daily).

(Side note: I have also experimented with 140 mg/wk Testosterone (20 mg/daily), which had profound AMAZING effects on my libido and function oddly enough, so I'd be open to going back to that regimen if doing so will improve my chances with succeeding with Nandrolone)

 

[Belekas]

Yes, test base. I haven't taken nandrolone in a long while, but when I did, my regimen was: 240 mg/wk Testosterone and 60mg/wk Nandrolone. (Both split into two even doses a week, of 140 and 25 respectively. No AIs.)

Current regimen is 280 mg/wk Testosterone, split into daily injections (40 mg/daily), no AIs. (I feel more stable injecting daily).

(Side note: I have also experimented with 140 mg/wk Testosterone (20 mg/daily), which had profound AMAZING effects on my libido and function oddly enough, so I'd be open to going back to that regimen if doing so will improve my chances with succeeding with Nandrolone)

Ok I see. Thanks for the detailed reply. So the thing is that a lot of guys get sides when adding Nandrolone to their test bases. Do you know Taeian Clark? He has a Nandrolone group on FB and probably is one of the smartest dudes on this subject. Many guys in his group run Nandrolone solo HRT regiments or with just a bit of test. Like 200mg deca and 20-80mg test. Not the other way around. Most of the guys get symptom resolution because Nandrolone help lower E2 and you pin just some Test to mitigate this effect as we need E2 for various different reasons. Most of the guys in his group feel a lot better on Nandrolone HRT or Nandrolone solo then only Test TRT protocols. Less androgenic and less androgenic sides like MPB, etc. A lot of them also feel a lot more cool, calm and collected on Nandrolone HRT protocols then on TRT. Libido, erections also banging as per their group. I'm yet to try it myself as have everything ready.

Would def recommend you to deep dive there if you haven't already.

Regards,
Bel

 

[Pacman]

Ok I see. Thanks for the detailed reply. So the thing is that a lot of guys get sides when adding Nandrolone to their test bases. Do you know Taeian Clark? He has a Nandrolone group on FB and probably is one of the smartest dudes on this subject. Many guys in his group run Nandrolone solo HRT regiments or with just a bit of test. Like 200mg deca and 20-80mg test. Not the other way around. Most of the guys get symptom resolution because Nandrolone help lower E2 and you pin just some Test to mitigate this effect as we need E2 for various different reasons. Most of the guys in his group feel a lot better on Nandrolone HRT or Nandrolone solo then only Test TRT protocols. Less androgenic and less androgenic sides like MPB, etc. A lot of them also feel a lot more cool, calm and collected on Nandrolone HRT protocols then on TRT. Libido, erections also banging as per their group. I'm yet to try it myself as have everything ready.

Would def recommend you to deep dive there if you haven't already.

Regards,
Bel

I was not aware of that group. I never considered a mostly Nandrolone protocol. But I'll definitely consider it if it works and I can keep my mood and libido+function up. Do you have a link to this group? And are there any other helpful resources on the subject you can recommend (from him or others)?

 

[Belekas]

I was not aware of that group. I never considered a mostly Nandrolone protocol. But I'll definitely consider it if it works and I can keep my mood and libido+function up. Do you have a link to this group? And are there any other helpful resources on the subject you can recommend (from him or others)?

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If it doesn't work just search for Taeian's Bodybuilding Camel Cult on FB and I'm sure you will be on your way. Tons of great info there and can post your questions to discuss everything there as well, but first read all the material or you will get some pun from him hehe: ) This is the best source re Nandrolone I could find. Some random videos on YT as well just search "Nandrolone HRT" or something like that. I'm planning to give it a try as well as got all the tools ready just need good timing probably next month or into end of the year.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

I got essentially a very depressive mood + no libido + ED on deca.
what is interesting the low dose pramipexole 100% fixed those issues. 0.125mg AM.
prami is very similar to cabergoline which a lot of deca users take. it has a much shorter half life, but I have not taken caber so I can not compare.
you could try 0.125 pramipexole, I am getting mine from reliablerx, but your doc might be willing to rx it. be careful it raised libido for me big time. I personally stopped deca, makes no sense to take another drug to fix the s/x of the first, but it might be worth for you.
the action of pramipexole which is a d3 agonist mostly, would mean that deca might cause high prolactin? but I think it is not as easy as many think. there is a whole down/up stream effects from those changes and they are not very well understood

 

[Gman86]

Yes, test base. I haven't taken nandrolone in a long while, but when I did, my regimen was: 240 mg/wk Testosterone and 60mg/wk Nandrolone. (Both split into two even doses a week, of 140 and 25 respectively. No AIs.)

Current regimen is 280 mg/wk Testosterone, split into daily injections (40 mg/daily), no AIs. (I feel more stable injecting daily).

(Side note: I have also experimented with 140 mg/wk Testosterone (20 mg/daily), which had profound AMAZING effects on my libido and function oddly enough, so I'd be open to going back to that regimen if doing so will improve my chances with succeeding with Nandrolone)

Sounds like u felt best on 140mg/ week of test solo. Unless u felt great sexually, but feel better otherwise on higher dosages. What’s the reasoning for using double this dose, if u felt so good at 140mg? no judgment, jc

 

[Gman86]

I got essentially a very depressive mood + no libido + ED on deca.
what is interesting the low dose pramipexole 100% fixed those issues. 0.125mg AM.
prami is very similar to cabergoline which a lot of deca users take. it has a much shorter half life, but I have not taken caber so I can not compare.
you could try 0.125 pramipexole, I am getting mine from reliablerx, but your doc might be willing to rx it. be careful it raised libido for me big time. I personally stopped deca, makes no sense to take another drug to fix the s/x of the first, but it might be worth for you.
the action of pramipexole which is a d3 agonist mostly, would mean that deca might cause high prolactin? but I think it is not as easy as many think. there is a whole down/up stream effects from those changes and they are not very well understood

If prami fixed the issue 100%, is it kind of safe to say that it fixed either a high prolactin or low dopamine issue, brought on by the nandrolone? It’s obv impossible to know for sure, but I’m thinking it’s most likely one of those two things, if prami resolved the issue. What do u think? Makes sense right? Doesnt prami simply lower prolactin? And as far as I know, anytime u lower prolactin, dopamine goes up. And vice versa. Again, as far as I know, prolactin and dopamine have an inverse relationship. But I could be wrong. If u, or anyone else could shed more light on this it would be appreciated

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Sounds like u felt best on 140mg/ week of test solo. Unless u felt great sexually, but feel better otherwise on higher dosages. What’s the reasoning for using double this dose, if u felt so good at 140mg? no judgment, jc

I bet its a five letter word that begins with G and ends with Z.

GAINZ

 

[t_spacemonkey]

If prami fixed the issue 100%, is it kind of safe to say that it fixed either a high prolactin or low dopamine issue, brought on by the nandrolone? It’s obv impossible to know for sure, but I’m thinking it’s most likely one of those two things, if prami resolved the issue. What do u think? Makes sense right? Doesnt prami simply lower prolactin? And as far as I know, anytime u lower prolactin, dopamine goes up. And vice versa. Again, as far as I know, prolactin and dopamine have an inverse relationship. But I could be wrong. If u, or anyone else could shed more light on this it would be appreciated

i think you are right. the response I got to prami was crazy, i felt like absolute shit, depressed, libido gone, within 2-3h of taking prami it literally like a switched was turned on and I was telling my wife to get ready lol
on the side it is a great mood booster and give you pretty good motivation/energy at the gym too, without the nasty s/x of drugs like amphetamines. i'm sure there is some withdrawal with long term use, but I've seen gym bros on youtube taking 2mg of this which is an insane dose. even the whole pill 0.25mg gave me anxiety.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

I bet its a five letter word that begins with G and ends with Z.

GAINZ

there is nothing wrong with GAYNZ, we all want them

 

[Gman86]

I know that DHT derivatives can sometimes help when using a test base with some nandrolone, and experiencing mood and sexual sides. I’m not sure the exact mechanism that’s in play here. My guess it’s a few. Im thinking it’s due to a combination of DHT derivatives like primo, mast and/ or Proviron not only lowering E2 and prolactin, but possibly also due to the fact that the DHN from nandrolone can inhibit the effects of DHT in the system, and maybe that can cause an issue for some, and using a DHT derivative can increase some of benefits that actual DHT offers. That last part could be a stretch, but just brainstorming here

Here’s a couple anecdotes of guys implementing DHT derivatives with a test base and some nandrolone. I have more saved somewhere, just have to find them

gains4000
Well-known member Registered
-its great to add in some proviron or masteron since nandrolone does block DHT conversion and increase Estrogen receptor sensitivity. DHT is highly androgenic and anti Estrogenic hormone. DHN is 10x weaker than DHT at the AR and can really mess up with androgen to estrogen ratio. FWIW i see a lot of veteran bodybuilders always add masteron to a test Deca cycle.

[deleted] 3y

Using Masteron completely eliminated any Deca dick for me at just 300mg Mast E. I mean rock hard wood all damn day. With like 500 NPP
Weird it didn't work for you. I was only on TRT test






B88F
Sep 27, 2022
train2win said:
-Well ever since i started incorporating mast with deca i never had a libido issue, i just run the mast at whatever dose i'm running the deca at and i'm actually fooking horny as a bastard doing it that way, even more so then on test and mast alone for some strange reason, the only issue i get with deca is the inability to bust a nut well in to the cycle, clearly its a prolactin issue, but i hate caber so just wondering with npp not building up like deca does maybe it won't effect prolactin quite as much!?







SampsonandDelilah
Knowledgeable Member
-Extremely reasonable - I like to run the test higher to compensate for the suppression. What I had deca in my protocol I ran it at 100 and test at 200. Loved it. Also ran 50 mgs of proviron as well which I would recommend to anyone using nandrolone or experiencing ED. If you’re looking for a TRT cruise compound, hard to beat proviron in my opinion

 

[Gman86]

i think you are right. the response I got to prami was crazy, i felt like absolute shit, depressed, libido gone, within 2-3h of taking prami it literally like a switched was turned on and I was telling my wife to get ready lol
on the side it is a great mood booster and give you pretty good motivation/energy at the gym too, without the nasty s/x of drugs like amphetamines. i'm sure there is some withdrawal with long term use, but I've seen gym bros on youtube taking 2mg of this which is an insane dose. even the whole pill 0.25mg gave me anxiety.

Ya sounds like u just has a combo of high prolactin and low dopamine going on. That combo can absolutely kill sex drive, and make u feel depressed and moody and just like crap in general. I’m just not sure if the nandrolone can lower dopamine simply by raising prolactin, or if there’s another mechanism by which it can mess with dopamine. I’m hoping it’s simply the former. At least we have pretty straight forward ways of lowering prolactin. Whether it’s via a DHT derivative that lowers E2, and consequently tends to lower prolactin as well, or whether it’s with something like selegiline. Obv prami and caber lower prolactin as well, but I’m just not sure about the long term risks of using either of those. I personally feel more comfortable using something like selegiline and/ or low doses of primo or Proviron

if nandrolone affects dopamine negatively in another way, that we’re not aware of, then that’s worse, imo. Simply because if we don’t know how it’s lowering dopamine, we really don’t know how to try and resolve the issue if it happens

 

[Gman86]

I bet its a five letter word that begins with G and ends with Z.

GAINZ

Hahah, I mean if that’s the case, it’s totally understandable. Im in the same boat. But jc if there’s any other reasons for it. Mainly whether he feels better in ways that he doesn’t get on the 140mg/ week

 

[t_spacemonkey]

Ya sounds like u just has a combo of high prolactin and low dopamine going on. That combo can absolutely kill sex drive, and make u feel depressed and moody and just like crap in general. I’m just not sure if the nandrolone can lower dopamine simply by raising prolactin, or if there’s another mechanism by which it can mess with dopamine. I’m hoping it’s simply the former. At least we have pretty straight forward ways of lowering prolactin. Whether it’s via a DHT derivative that lowers E2, and consequently tends to lower prolactin as well, or whether it’s with something like selegiline. Obv prami and caber lower prolactin as well, but I’m just not sure about the long term risks of using either of those. I personally feel more comfortable using something like selegiline and/ or low doses of primo or Proviron

if nandrolone affects dopamine negatively in another way, that we’re not aware of, then that’s worse, imo. Simply because if we don’t know how it’s lowering dopamine, we really don’t know how to try and resolve the issue if it happens

I do have Selegiline laying around here. I never took it. I am a bit concerned with taking MAO inhibitors, reading on how to take it and what to avoid appears scary. don't eat meat or this or that. or is it not a problem with low doses? what dose would you try. since it is an irreversible inhibitor I also wonder how long it would take for your body to go back into normal once you stop. with pramipexole the effects are gone within 24h. you certain that it is safer long term?

 

[Gman86]

I do have Selegiline laying around here. I never took it. I am a bit concerned with taking MAO inhibitors, reading on how to take it and what to avoid appears scary. don't eat meat or this or that. or is it not a problem with low doses? what dose would you try. since it is an irreversible inhibitor I also wonder how long it would take for your body to go back into normal once you stop. with pramipexole the effects are gone within 24h. you certain that it is safer long term?

With low doses that we would be taking for optimization purposes/ lowering prolactin/ increasing dopamine purposes, and not using it as a full blown depression treatment, there’s literally nothing to worry about. I think that stuff about avoiding cheese and certain foods is really overblown. All I’ve heard is anecdotes of people never having interactions with those certain foods while on it. Never once heard of a person having a reaction from the foods they say to stay away from while on it

and supposedly its one of the very very few longevity/ anti-aging medications. It supposedly helps slow the aging process, and increases longevity. So it seems like not only is it not dangerous to take long term, but it’s actually beneficial to do so. Im just not sure if there’s any issues with dipping below baseline, as far as dopamine levels go, if discontinuing it after taking it for an extended time. I’ve never heard or read anything about that happening, it’s just a personal concern/ thought. With every high, there’s usually a low. There’s usually no biological free lunches. But I’ve personally never noticed a decline from baseline when stopping, and never heard of anyone reporting this happening

dosages vary depending whether u plan on taking it sublingually or orally. Supposedly taking It sublingually increases absorption by up to 8x. I’ve seen a ton of anecdotes of guys using 1.25mg ED, EOD, or twice per week, sublingually, and then guys like @BadassBlues takes 5mg orally ED, and reports that being a really good dose for him. Probably don't need more than 5-10mg orally ED, and sublingually u probably don’t need more than 1.25-2.5mg ED

and I think the half life is pretty long. So
its not something thats in and out like prami. It’s the opposite. Takes a while to feel the effects, and takes a while for the enzyme that it blocks to build back up. Have this quote saved about it

“The body naturally gets rid of & synthesizes new enzymes, so in some time, the MAO-B would replenish if you halted use. It's said to take around 45 days for the inhibition to halve, then another 45 days for the remaining half to halve, etc.”

and someone also stated this about the half life

dmt-entity-but-irl 1y

down regulated dopamine does not equal parkinson’s. sounds like the selegiline is giving you some anxiety? sine it takes 45 days for the enzyme to regenerate, you could just take it once every 2 weeks or so and the mao-b inhibitor would be similar.

 

[Gman86]

@t_spacemonkey I have a million anecdotes saved talking about selegiline use, but here’s a few that I added recently. They include both oral and sublingual use

CaptainRhino2011 152d

I started taking 5mg daily about two months ago. I have been diagnosed with low dopamine and nothing would help my depression or motivation to do basic activities that I normally enjoyed until selegiline. For me the effects started out very subtle the first week and by the end of the second it was a pretty noticeable difference on my overall mental state. From everything I’ve gathered it takes 30 days for some of these compounds to work that effect neurotransmitters. I don’t believe I will ever stop taking this medication because the results for me have been life changing. At 45 years old I feel like my 35 year old self again. I’m back in shape physical and mentally.

Digital-Jazz 9y

I can agree, with my own anecdotal evidence, that Selegiline isn't so much of a nootropic, but rather increases motivation, mood and positive energy. I'm just hitting 40, and take a half tablet (2.5mg) per day, sublingually.

StolenBot 3y

This is not the case for me at all. I have been taking 2.5mg sublingual selegiline for over two years and the benefits I have recieved actually were not that great the first week but by the second week I was much more motivated and fealt better overall.
-This has not changed for over two years. I feel the same everyday I take it. Better mood, more motivation and many more benefits.
-Half of what you said is honestly just worthless bro-science.

doogiehowitzer1 1y

I’ve been taking selegiline in some form or another for 32 years now. Always in low doses varying between 1-5mgs. I am 41 years old now, and many people regularity comment on my youthful appearance.
-It is energizing and uplifting for me. Although I already have a naturally high tolerance to stimulants. It is very motivating and an aphrodisiac. It has certainly been a nootropic for me and aided me in my career. There have been strategy meetings where I would suddenly have bouts of creativity or insight which I feel would not have occurred if I hadn’t been taking it. But I can’t be certain if that’s placebo or not.
-If you find it to be overly stimulating or creating other negative side effects back your dosing off to every other day or every 2-3 days. I have used varying dosing schemes over the years (always in doses less than <5mg.) I have settled on my preferred dose being 1mg sublingual every day or every other day depending on how I am feeling. I have never had a single negative effect that I can discern. I drink wine, eat whatever I want, have combined I with other stimulants in the past for whatever reason at the time. All good. I am in great health as well though. I run 5 days a week and lift weights 2 days weekly. I do credit selegiline with giving me the motivation and energy to continue working out like that.
-I realize I may be an outlier. There are many reports in the Internet of selegiline working well initially for many only to cause problems which led to discontinuation later on. My belief is that most of these are due to taking too much. Dr Knoll himself advised a very conservative dosing regimen which is not being followed in these negative reviews.

lxbrt 1y

I've been taking it consistently for over 2 years to lower prolactin. 1.25 mg sublingual, 5x/week.
-No gambling addiction, but in that vein I think my sweet:savory preference swung a bit more towards sweet.
-Very easily aroused and stronger erections. Reduced refractory period.
-The number one side effect that hasn't been mentioned much here is that I sleep like absolute shit. Getting to sleep is no problem but staying asleep for a full night is impossible. I wear a sleep mask and ear plugs every night because either light or noise snaps me awake and fully alert in an instant.
-If I could solve the sleep problem it would be a miracle compound tbh.
-I had elevated prolactin which I think was giving me depressive tendencies and also intense nipple burning. Selegine cleared all that right up and I'm mentally steady as a rock and the burning is minimal (it occasionally flares up to where I can just feel it).
-That's the main stuff for me, but in addition it raises my libido (almost dead with raised prolactin) and increases my motivation for life in general.
-Also an odd little bonus that I think comes from extra dopamine: I get a pleasant tingling sensation in the soles of my feet sometimes lol.
-If it extends my life too, well, that's just gravy.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

@Gman86 thanks a lot. Dave Asprey recommends it. i ordered 5mg pills from reliablerx a while ago, that stuff is cheap. i think the key is to start very low and slowly increase. maybe 2.5mg EOD is a good start. I've been pretty demotivated with avg concentration in work (engineering/tech), but amphetamines which work are just nasty.
pramipexole gives me 0 sleep issues I sleep great, but having something raise natural dopamine seems a better idea then something which just mimics its actions.

How Selegiline Protects Your Brain and Keeps You Young

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[BadassBlues]

@Gman86 thanks a lot. Dave Asprey recommends it. i ordered 5mg pills from reliablerx a while ago, that stuff is cheap. i think the key is to start very low and slowly increase. maybe 2.5mg EOD is a good start. I've been pretty demotivated with avg concentration in work (engineering/tech), but amphetamines which work are just nasty.
pramipexole gives me 0 sleep issues I sleep great, but having something raise natural dopamine seems a better idea then something which just mimics its actions.

How Selegiline Protects Your Brain and Keeps You Young

Everyone is looking for that magic pill to make you run faster, jump higher, think faster, and live longer. That may not exist for now, but there’s one prescription drug that people swear by to increase lifespan and brain functioning, even though it’s minimally researched and not widely...

daveasprey.com

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