Nandrolone (Deca), How bad does someone have to be to get this? Are Doctors that afraid of the DEA?

[Mojave]

I'm age 52, Originally tested with only 179 mg/dl Testosterone when I was checked and had lots of symptoms.

I've been on TRT for at least three years. Because the formulary seem to run the rules as to how much is to low or to high, one is kept in a range that fits the formulary. For example. Lab Corp says Test should be, (40 year old males) between 348 to 1198

Ok fine, Getting it up in the 800 plus is where I feel best and honestly, even better far past that but, I obey the rules, inject the doses prescribed and settle for the average of 600-770 mg/dl


In 2012, I had such a severe pinched nerve from my ruptured Cervical Disc (C5). I had managed to keep from going under the knife for a number of years with anti inflammatories (Neproxen)and other PT therapies. By the time it got so bad I wasn't able to avoid surgery, I went in and got it removed and fused. By then my left arm, (and I'm left handed) was weaker by 20% then my right arm and had atrophied nearly an inch.

Over time I was working on getting that normalized best I could but it has continued to lag. It is now ¼ inch smaller then my right arm. Now that might not sound like much but the general populace is between 10% to 20% stronger on their dominant hand or arm.
My last grip test I was 10 lbs weaker on my left arm then my right doing the grip strength at the Orthopedic surgeons. That was in December of 2015.

Dec 2014, I had two lower lumbar disc cleaned out. Was supposed to take 90 min, I was to go home same day. ACCIDENT on the table. I was on the table 9 hours. Hospitalized 3 days. Wasn't sure I would walk was what my wife was told.
I'm walking and I've fought like hell to get that left leg, again my dominant leg stronger and I am in pretty good shape on that now. Still, it has weakness more then my right leg

When the hell is it appropriate to get a prescription for Nandrolone? I am the perfect candidate. TRT alone is not doing it. If I could get Nandrolone in conjunction with my TRT and what I am taking for ester control, I would expect I could get the deficient arm and leg back "EVEN" with my right arm and leg.

Are doctors so afraid of the DEA and getting their license pulled that they refuse to prescribe an anabolic steroid like this for exactly what it was designed for?

I won't bother expressing my feelings on the system and it's obvious.

Is there a Doctor on this forum that can speak to this? From all I have found out, most Orthopedic Surgeons won't prescribe it unless they are dealing with Osteoporoses. How about muscle shrinkage and the likes?

I'm not a body builder, I am trying to build back what I have lost and even at that, just to an equal level of my other limbs, not even to the norm of 10% to 20% stronger which is what dominate arms and legs would normally be.

If anyone here has ever had a legal prescription for Nandrolone, and I would expect it might have been for a wasting disease? I would like to know how it worked for you and how long you used it etc.

Thanks in advance for any experienced input.

 

[maxadvance]

Nelson spoke to this specifically last month. Deca can only be prescribed for muscle wasting disease, like for AID's patients. And yes Doctors can lose their license for improperly prescribing this class of drug. Some on this board have said they have physicians that have prescribed Deca for them, maybe they will pm you.

There are also some UGL labs that brew it with good reputations. You may consider that option too. Deca works well with test, horrible by itself.

 

[Mojave]

Nelson spoke to this specifically last month. Deca can only be prescribed for muscle wasting disease, like for AID's patients. And yes Doctors can lose their license for improperly prescribing this class of drug. Some on this board have said they have physicians that have prescribed Deca for them, maybe they will pm you.

There are also some UGL labs that brew it with good reputations. You may consider that option too. Deca works well with test, horrible by itself.

Yes of course License to prescribe can be jeopardize when misused, i.e. healthy athletes using for enhancement.

The concern is, does the DEA use such excessive regulation that the physician is unable to do what would be right?

It's incredibly hypocritical to say muscle wasting from aids or cancer qualify for treatment but not from other disease such as degenerate disc disease resulting in limb atrophy.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Nandrolone has very little data on tendon repair in humans. One doctor I know who tried to publish a paper on the subject got his paper rejected by several journals.

So far the DEA has not gone after this off label indication.

The reason we use nandrolone in wasting is because I pushed the NIH to do several studies on its use in HIV.

Data can protect doctors against a DEA audit.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Nandrolone Decanoate and Load Increase Remodeling and Strength in Human Supraspinatus Bioartificial Tendons


by Ioannis K. Triantafillopoulos; Albert J. Banes; Karl F. Bowman, Jr; Melissa Maloney; William E. Garrett, Jr; Spero G. Karas

To date, no studies document the effect of anabolic steroids on rotator cuff tendons. Controlled laboratory study. Anabolic steroids enhance remodeling and improve the biomechanical properties of bioartificially engineered human supraspinatus tendons. Bioartificial tendons were treated with either nandrolone decanoate (nonload, steroid, n = 18), loading (load, nonsteroid, n = 18), or both (load, steroid, n = 18). A control group received no treatment (nonload, nonsteroid [NLNS], n = 18). Bioartificial tendons' remodeling was assessed by daily scanning, cytoskeletal organization by staining, matrix metalloproteinase-3 levels by ELISA assay, and biomechanical properties by load-to-failure testing. The load, steroid group showed the greatest remodeling and the best organized actin cytoskeleton. Matrix metallo-proteinase-3 levels in the load, steroid group were greater than those of the nonload, nonsteroid group (P <.05). Ultimate stress and ultimate strain in the load, steroid group were greater than those of the nonload, nonsteroid and nonload, steroid groups (P <.05). The strain energy density in the load, steroid group was greater when compared to other groups (P <.05). Nandrolone decanoate and load acted synergistically to increase matrix remodeling and biomechanical properties of bioartificial tendons. Data suggest anabolic steroids may enhance production of bioartificial tendons and rotator cuff tendon healing in vitro. More research is necessary before such clinical use is recommended.
MEDLINE

 

[Nelson Vergel]

The Effect of Local Use of Nandrolone Decanoate on Rotator Cuff Repair in Rabbits


by Papaspiliopoulos, Athanasios; Papaparaskeva, Kleo;Papadopoulou, Eleni; Feroussis, John; Papalois, Apostolos;Zoubos, Aristedes

There is still controversy about the effect of anabolic steroid on connective tissue. This study examines the hypothesis that the local use of nandrolone decanoate, an anabolic steroid on rotator cuff, facilitates the healing process when used in combination with surgical repair. Forty-eight male rabbits were divided in four groups with anabolic steroids (Nandrolone Decanoate 10 mg/kg) and immobilization as variables. The groups were the following: first group, nonsteroid use-immobilization (NSI); second group, nonsteroid use-nonimmobilization (NSNI); third group, steroid use-immobilization (SI); fourth group steroid use-nonimmobilization (SNI). Every rabbit underwent a rotator cuff incision and reconstruction. Fifteen days later the tendons were sent for biomechanical and histological evaluation. Groups that did not receive anabolic steroids showed better healing and more tendon strength in comparison to groups that received anabolic steroids. Microscopic examination of specimens from the groups without the use of anabolic steroid showed extensive fibroblastic activity whereas the specimens from those groups with anabolic steroid use showed focal fibroblastic reaction and inflammation. Immobilization provided better results in the groups with anabolic steroid use but it did not influence healing in groups without steroids. The effect of local nandrolone decanoate use on a rotator cuff tear is detrimental, acting as a healing inhibitor.
MEDLINE

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Nandrolone Normalizes Determinants of Muscle Mass and Fiber Type after Spinal Cord Injury

by Wu, Yong; Zhao, Jingbo; Zhao, Weidong; Pan, Jiangping; Bauman, William A; Cardozo, Christopher P

Spinal cord injury (SCI) results in atrophy of skeletal muscle and changes from slow oxidative to fast glycolytic fibers, which may reflect reduced levels of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma coactivator-1&#945; (PGC-1&#945, increased myostatin signaling, or both. In animals, testosterone reduces loss of muscle fiber cross-sectional area and activity of enzymes of energy metabolism. To identify the molecular mechanisms behind the benefits of androgens on paralyzed muscle, male rats were spinal cord transected and treated for 8 weeks with vehicle, testosterone at a physiological replacement dose, or testosterone plus nandrolone, an anabolic steroid. Treatments were initiated immediately after SCI and continued until the day animals were euthanized. In the SCI animals, gastrocnemius muscle mass was significantly increased by testosterone plus nandrolone, but not by testosterone alone. Both treatments significantly reduced nuclear content of Smad2/3 and mRNA levels of activin receptor IIB and follistatin-like 3. Testosterone alone or with nandrolone reversed SCI-induced declines in cellular and nuclear levels of PGC-1&#945; protein and PGC-1&#945; mRNA levels. For PGC-1&#945; target genes, testosterone plus nandrolone partially reversed SCI-induced decreases in levels of proteins without corresponding increases in their mRNA levels. Thus, the findings demonstrate that following SCI, signaling through activin receptors and Smad2/3 is increased, and that androgens suppress activation of this signaling pathway. The findings also indicate that androgens upregulate PGC-1&#945; in paralyzed muscle and promote its nuclear localization, but that these effects are insufficient to fully activate transcription of PGC-1&#945; target genes. Furthermore, the transcription of these genes is not tightly coupled with their translation.

 

[Mojave]

I had a hard time understanding this post due to it's deep technical vernacular. If I am gleaning anything here, it showed progress as used together with Test and for SCI via increase of myostatin signaling?

Can I ask you to boil it down a tad bit Nelson? I will read the other two posts.

 

[Mojave]

The link requires a password but I expect you cut and pasted this text from the article? I am reading this and appreciate the info

 

[Mojave]

So don't use it if you had rotator cuff surgery. Ok. Makes sense.

My original point was actual atrophy of muscle which resulted from disc disease. Normally, reduced signal. Once surgery is complete, the signal can be restored in most cases and the process to rebuild is possible. My point was why not allow 3 months of treatment with test for the rebuild for better results? Not for healing surgical sites.

 

[Mojave]

And this is why you are respected and beloved by the vast majority of those in this community. I bought your book way back and have followed your efforts ever since. No one has tried as hard as you have to help as many people as I believe you have. Thank you for all you do Nelson.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Thanks Mojave.

What I was trying to explain is that all data we have about the potential healing qualities of nandrolone on tendons comes from animal studies and some studies contradict others. Yes, some doctors may be prescribing it for this off label use for men but they are rare and in my point of view may be playing with fire if the DEA audits them.

However, we have several good studies done in HIV, so that is why doctors may feel more comfortable prescribing it to HIV patients who are losing weight involuntarily.

[h=3]WHY IS NANDROLONE DECANOATE IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE LIVING WITH HIV[/b]

 

[Vettester Chris]

It works wonder with Degenerative Disc Disease! Just a small amount, ongoing, no adverse issues with labs, the real deal!! Good enough that this 49yo kid will be doing some track events on the super sport 1,000cc, where at one point doing simple 1 hour street rides were almost impossible.

 

[Jed Dorsey]

It works wonder with Degenerative Disc Disease! Just a small amount, ongoing, no adverse issues with labs, the real deal!! Good enough that this 49yo kid will be doing some track events on the super sport 1,000cc, where at one point doing simple 1 hour street rides were almost impossible.

Now that your 54 how are you doing? Are still on Deca? Did you have any negative side effects or issues due to its use long term???