Veggies doing more harm than good?

[Gman86]

So are we to believe that eating farm-raised animals these days is comparable to eating the wild game of past ages?

Excellent point. And absolutelt not. Wild game is very different. But as far as cattle goes, as long as they are grassfed, and not injected with a bunch of antibiotics and hormones, I would imagine the cattle now wouldn’t be too much different than the cattle back then. Although, the grass that they are eating now is probably less nutritious, I would assume.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

@Rock H. Johnson When you say the only change you’ve had to make to your diet was eating a ton of eggs, what do you mean by that? Did you give up eating eggs? Were they causing you any issues?

Also, I must say, I really like the way you think, and your mindset/ views on life, you must be a really unique and interesting guy.

Because of not having the ability to acquire any whey protein, I changed over to more eggs, I was eating eggs but not consistently and maybe 1-2 at the time. When I passed eating 6 a day, something changed. I assume that my vegetarian diet was great but I that the lack of dietary cholestrol was part of my low T. Now I eat about 9-10 on average a day and the body feels stronger.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Excellent point. And absolutelt not. Wild game is very different. But as far as cattle goes, as long as they are grassfed, and not injected with a bunch of antibiotics and hormones, I would imagine the cattle now wouldn’t be too much different than the cattle back then. Although, the grass that they are eating now is probably less nutritious, I would assume.

Then there is the issue of fight/flight hormones flooding the meat just before slaughter and the way of the kill.
Bow and arrow shot, veal would be best, but not all can afford it nor is it everywhere available.

 

[Gman86]

Because of not having the ability to acquire any whey protein, I changed over to more eggs, I was eating eggs but not consistently and maybe 1-2 at the time. When I passed eating 6 a day, something changed. I assume that my vegetarian diet was great but I that the lack of dietary cholestrol was part of my low T. Now I eat about 9-10 on average a day and the body feels stronger.

Wow, do you eat 9-10 whole eggs everyday, yolks and all?

 

[Gman86]

Then there is the issue of fight/flight hormones flooding the meat just before slaughter and the way of the kill.
Bow and arrow shot, veal would be best, but not all can afford it nor is it everywhere available.

Really good point. I assume they’re not extremely stressed before they get a bolt to the head, but I’m sure they are somewhat aware that something isn’t quite right

 

[Gman86]

@Rock H. Johnson really curious, are you eating 9-10 whole eggs per day?

 

[TestOneTwo]

Then there is the issue of fight/flight hormones flooding the meat just before slaughter and the way of the kill.
Bow and arrow shot, veal would be best, but not all can afford it nor is it everywhere available.

I’d argue that the average hunt for big game used to involve a credibly long, bloody suffering and extended shock/fear period. They were essentially wounding the animal and then chasing it down for hours, sometimes for days. They didn’t have modern composite or crossbows let alone high powered rifles with optical sights. I would go as far and say that the modern process is much quicker. I’m not advocating mass farming of animals, I think it’s terrible, but objectively speaking at least the death is way more humane. But let’s say it was true that more stress hormones are present in the meat today - would it really make a difference? As much as I strongly disbelieve that GM food does anything different in our gastrointestinal tract than non GM, I doubt that pre-mortem fear would change anything other than maybe the taste and potentially texture.

 

[fifty]

Raw carnivore diet. Why are carnivore dieters always comparing us to cavemen? Why are all these videos approaching 2 hours? It reminds me of one of those 60m infomercials that are on TV at 2am. Just get to the point already.

I don't buy it.

"Seeds are a plant baby. Please don't eat me or I will kill you."

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

@Rock H. Johnson really curious, are you eating 9-10 whole eggs per day?

Yes, sir. For a long period, then it it goes to six and then up again.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

I’d argue that the average hunt for big game used to involve a credibly long, bloody suffering and extended shock/fear period. They were essentially wounding the animal and then chasing it down for hours, sometimes for days. They didn’t have modern composite or crossbows let alone high powered rifles with optical sights. I would go as far and say that the modern process is much quicker. I’m not advocating mass farming of animals, I think it’s terrible, but objectively speaking at least the death is way more humane. But let’s say it was true that more stress hormones are present in the meat today - would it really make a difference? As much as I strongly disbelieve that GM food does anything different in our gastrointestinal tract than non GM, I doubt that pre-mortem fear would change anything other than maybe the taste and potentially texture.

Only I never said any of what you argue:
I am talking about the present tense, my wife has been a vegetarian for years but she was weakening herself so I talked her into eating meat again. So while in the UK last year we went to the market and we bought Bow&Arrow shot Veal(for the price, I doubt that these guys have been chasing the calf down for days, they are kept in a pen when instantly killed by a single shot, silent arrow from a crossbow) , as this would probably be a bit better then supermarketchain meat. But again an assumption.

 

[Tdizzle]

Raw carnivore diet. Why are carnivore dieters always comparing us to cavemen? Why are all these videos approaching 2 hours? It reminds me of one of those 60m infomercials that are on TV at 2am. Just get to the point already.

I don't buy it.

"Seeds are a plant baby. Please don't eat me or I will kill you."

im not buying it either, it’s nothing more than a theory at best. Its laughable to think vegetables make our health worse. It defies logic. It’s no different than the vegan argument. If the vegan diet is so great, why is B12 so crucial for human health but we can’t seem to get enough from plants alone ? I think the actual truth is somewhere in between.

I also wonder why people think that the way our ancestors ate was optimal when in fact, they were trying to survive and often went without. How is that type of stress optimal for our health ?

 

[TestOneTwo]

Only I never said any of what you argue:
I am talking about the present tense, my wife has been a vegetarian for years but she was weakening herself so I talked her into eating meat again. So while in the UK last year we went to the market and we bought Bow&Arrow shot Veal(for the price, I doubt that these guys have been chasing the calf down for days, they are kept in a pen when instantly killed by a single shot, silent arrow from a crossbow) , as this would probably be a bit better then supermarketchain meat. But again an assumption.

Sure it wasn’t some kind of brand name? Bow & arrow hunting is illegal in UK...well other than for Scotsmen of course, they are free game on Sundays.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Sure it wasn’t some kind of brand name? Bow & arrow hunting is illegal in UK...well other than for Scotsmen of course, they are free game on Sundays.

Its called, Wild, and was available on markets in London.

 

[TestOneTwo]

Its called, Wild, and was available on markets in London.

How was it received by your vegetarian wife? Were you able to create a believer that day?

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

How was it received by your vegetarian wife? Were you able to create a believer that day?

O, yes, she is very clever, it was terrible for her and I could not even be in the kitchen when she cooked it from the fumes. She ate it and since then when she has the chance of getting some quality organic beef she will eat it. She knows it is good for her. We are permanent travellers so that does not always work out especially we now live in India....lol

 

[Gman86]

im not buying it either, it’s nothing more than a theory at best. Its laughable to think vegetables make our health worse. It defies logic. It’s no different than the vegan argument. If the vegan diet is so great, why is B12 so crucial for human health but we can’t seem to get enough from plants alone ? I think the actual truth is somewhere in between.

I also wonder why people think that the way our ancestors ate was optimal when in fact, they were trying to survive and often went without. How is that type of stress optimal for our health ?

Without watching the videos you’ll never understand. Your “logic” comes from what you were raised to believe. People fear what they don’t understand, and what they’re used to. So you not understanding and making fun of it is natural human behavior. It’s the same thing as if u were raised strict Mormon. I could show u all the evidence that Mormonism is a completely fake and made up religion, that was created by a known con artist, but if u grew up Mormon, u would think that what I was saying was insane, and defies everything u know. Ur brain wouldn’t allow u to accept any of that information. Same thing if u were raised by a family in the ku klux klan. There would be nothing I could say or do to make u understand that people of color are just the same as white people. It would conflict with ur reality and ur understanding of the world too much. Ur brain wouldn’t allow u to accept it. It’s the same thing with carnivore. U were raised to think a certain way about vegetables. Ur brain won’t allow u to accept any info that conflicts with how u view vegetables, and how humans should eat in general. This is completely normal human behavior. So I don’t expect u to accept the idea that vegetables can be doing harm to our health. It would take a person that has learned how to think outside the box as an individual, to accept new information, and be willing to change their views based on evidence. Most people don’t fall into this category. Most people like comfort, and don’t like anything that disrupts what they’re used to. The only thing that does surprise me, is the fact that ur not willing to watch the videos and learn. But like I said before, u can do whatever u want with ur body. That’s the beauty of life. We all get to choose what we put into our bodies, and what u put into urs has no effect on mine, and vice versa.

 

[Tdizzle]

Without watching the videos you’ll never understand. Your “logic” comes from what you were raised to believe. People fear what they don’t understand, and what they’re used to. So you not understanding and making fun of it is natural human behavior. It’s the same thing as if u were raised strict Mormon. I could show u all the evidence that Mormonism is a completely fake and made up religion, that was created by a known con artist, but if u grew up Mormon, u would think that what I was saying was insane, and defies everything u know. Ur brain wouldn’t allow u to accept any of that information. Same thing if u were raised by a family in the ku klux klan. There would be nothing I could say or do to make u understand that people of color are just the same as white people. It would conflict with ur reality and ur understanding of the world too much. Ur brain wouldn’t allow u to accept it. It’s the same thing with carnivore. U were raised to think a certain way about vegetables. Ur brain won’t allow u to accept any info that conflicts with how u view vegetables, and how humans should eat in general. This is completely normal human behavior. So I don’t expect u to accept the idea that vegetables can be doing harm to our health. It would take a person that has learned how to think outside the box as an individual, to accept new information, and be willing to change their views based on evidence. Most people don’t fall into this category. Most people like comfort, and don’t like anything that disrupts what they’re used to. The only thing that does surprise me, is the fact that ur not willing to watch the videos and learn. But like I said before, u can do whatever u want with ur body. That’s the beauty of life. We all get to choose what we put into our bodies, and what u put into urs has no effect on mine, and vice versa.

For someone who comes off so condescending as if he’s smarting than everyone , you sure don’t pay much attention to detail do you ? did you not read my reply to you ? I DID watch the videos..... I’m not making fun of anything , I’m just not buying what their selling , and it’s not because I am closed minded. Where is all the data to support these claims ? Just a smart guy on a podcast making claims and yet you call it fact ? Your surely entitled to believe what you want but it doesn’t mean those of us who don’t are less smart than you.

you really come off like a jerk , assuming I don’t have the ability to be open minded ? Who are you to judge anyone ? Your just a regular person like me.
I am very much open minded but my opinion is based on life experience and not a theory that I heard on a podcast. My health improved when I ate less meat and more vegetables. Aside from how I felt, I have diagnostic evidence to prove it as well. When I ate a larger percentage of my diet in animal products , I became sluggish , had digestive issues , blood pressure went back up , cholesterol went back up, among other things. Believe what you like , maybe your the one who needs to be open minded and consider that maybe you don’t know everything

I’m not sure why your so adamant in reinforcing your “opinion” here as if you take it personal I disagree with you ?

 

[MarcoFL]

I really do. Eating mainly carnivore without eating organ meats is setting urself up for failure. It’s just not how our ancestors would of done it for millions and millions of years. Organs are nature’s multivitamins. Specifically the liver. Our bodies weren’t designed to eat only muscle meat without the organs. The ratios of vitamins and minerals would eventually be imbalanced if we got most of our vitamins and minerals just from muscle meat. Regardless of whatever diet someone chooses, eating the organs of animals fed their natural diet is mandatory, imo. At least if you want to be as healthy as possible. It’s impossible for a human to create a pill or capsule that will ever come close to improving our health like eating organs will.

it has amazed me how I can be low iron and try to take iron and it hardly moves! a month of eating organ meat-mainly liver and I am now at the top of range!!! I say whatever works for each body. mine is more carnivore type. I know lady that raves about being vegetarian but even though 56 she has the skin of a 75 year old lady. My wife eats beef twice a day and same weight as we we married 37 years ago and looks fab at 56! just sayin!

 

[Gman86]

Not finished listening to it yet. But here‘s a quick podcast on the dangers of oxalates. And also here’s a list of high, moderated and low oxalate foods.

https://www.upmc.com/-/media/upmc/patients-visitors/education/unique-pdfs/low-oxalate-diet.pdf

 

[Blackhawk]

Gman86,

Have you perused Dr Rhonda Patrik's website and/or videos?

There is so much compelling evidence that veggies are indeed beneficial, including evidence that some compounds which are thusly demonized are actually hormetic in nature in our bodies.

In all of these radical diets, whether no carb, not fat, no veggies, no oxalates, no lectins etc etc. there are zealots who have made leaps of faith. None of these studies, anecdotes, hypothesis etc are conclusive beyond doubt. There are just too many moving parts in terms of food quality, individual base level health, unknowns about in vivo reality, and a host of heterogeneous considerations, including the incredible variation and inaccuracy of self perception in what one thinks they consume, often reflected in errors which completely ngate the validity of studies and anecdote based on self reporting.

If something works for you, I applaud it. However, yet another aspect of what works for N=1, is what works for your specific genetics? Another issue which Rhonda Patrick addresses. By virtue of 23and me and her's and other DNA raw data processing services, it appears that what works for one person may be detrimental to another. I ran these tests and analysis, and for me, apparently my particular polymorphisms indicate a number of things pertinent to this sensational carnivore diet fad: based on DNA and my genetics, these things are not good for me: Low or no carb diet; high or high proportion saturated fat intake. And at this time due to other idiosyncratic circumstances, I have excess iron, and it would be downright dangerous to eat solely carnivore diet higher in iron foods.

YMMV