Veggies doing more harm than good?

[TestOneTwo]

You make it seem like your lipids increasing is a bad thing. I’m not saying it’s good or bad, but just wondering why you think it’s a bad thing. Just curious. Lipids are a very interesting health marker. I’m just not sold on judging health status on the standard lipid panel that we use. Seems too ambiguous, imo. Check out this video and lmk what you think, if you have time.

That’s what I keep wondering myself. Honestly, if they weren’t markers doctors seem to be obsessed about I would just let them be. Trouble is, not unlike high blood pressure (which I don’t have) doctors tend to record these negatively in your medical history incl treatments they deem fit to resolve the “problem”. It also influences my TRT, I guess if my lipids are completely out of whack my dosage might be reconsidered. Same with HCT, it’s debatable whether TRT induced increases are really that bad yet my value of 51 and change last time was a focal point and I’m sure if it’s say 53 next time my dose will be chopped down. And last but not least, I’m on a type of insurance plan where I get very worthwhile bonuses if my vitals and labs stay within certain thresholds. Other than all these points I couldn’t care less, I also tend to believe lipids are largely overrated.

 

[Gman86]

That’s what I keep wondering myself. Honestly, if they weren’t markers doctors seem to be obsessed about I would just let them be. Trouble is, not unlike high blood pressure (which I don’t have) doctors tend to record these negatively in your medical history incl treatments they deem fit to resolve the “problem”. It also influences my TRT, I guess if my lipids are completely out of whack my dosage might be reconsidered. Same with HCT, it’s debatable whether TRT induced increases are really that bad yet my value of 51 and change last time was a focal point and I’m sure if it’s say 53 next time my dose will be chopped down. And last but not least, I’m on a type of insurance plan where I get very worthwhile bonuses if my vitals and labs stay within certain thresholds. Other than all these points I couldn’t care less, I also tend to believe lipids are largely overrated.

Very good points. Some that I also have to consider, due to being with Defy and them definitely taking my lipids into consideration in regards to my protocol.

My blood pressure is as good as it’s ever been since doing mostly carnivore. It’s way too early to make any correlations though. But before carnivore, my BP was around 120/80. Now it’s averaging around 110/60. Pulse is averaging 60, first thing in the morning. I check my BP pretty much everyday. So I’ll notice any changes if they due occur. But hopefully this amazing blood pressure is here to stay if I stick to the diet I’m currently eating.

 

[Tdizzle]

So you just had fasting glucose nothing else? No a1c, glycomark, c-peptide?

A1c was added after the first borderline high glucose result. It’s been normal since she’s been adding it to my annual bloodwork but I’ve also been eating less meat for the past 2 years.
there was no A1C test done when I had my first borderline high glucose reading. Prior to that my glucose was normal so there was no reason to check it.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Wouldn't it be better to test your apoe, instead of blood type. I heard before they used gene testing, some people did use blood type.

APOE is involved with lipids, cholestrol, I do not know what is better. The bloodtype diet was developed by D´Ademo some 40 years ago and is more of a general indicator in my opinion. I do not follow the diet to the t, I am just a simple vegetarian who happens to be bloodtype A which conicides with the BT diet indicationsso I stick to them. I have always been superhealthy on a vegetarian diet and after almost 30 years still going strong. I have nothing to test or look for as at the moment it ain´t broken.(except for the T then....lol..but I only have myself to blame for that.)

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Very good points. Some that I also have to consider, due to being with Defy and them definitely taking my lipids into consideration in regards to my protocol.

My blood pressure is as good as it’s ever been since doing mostly carnivore. It’s way too early to make any correlations though. But before carnivore, my BP was around 120/80. Now it’s averaging around 110/60. Pulse is averaging 60, first thing in the morning. I check my BP pretty much everyday. So I’ll notice any changes if they due occur. But hopefully this amazing blood pressure is here to stay if I stick to the diet I’m currently eating.

I know I asked you this before but morning BP is pretty meaningless, what is you midday, dinner time and BP just before sleep?
Almost everybody has perfect BP/HR score just after awakening but it is how your BP develops while being vertical not 8 hours horizontal...

 

[Vince]

APOE is involved with lipids, cholestrol, I do not know what is better. The bloodtype diet was developed by D´Ademo some 40 years ago and is more of a general indicator in my opinion. I do not follow the diet to the t, I am just a simple vegetarian who happens to be bloodtype A which conicides with the BT diet indicationsso I stick to them. I have always been superhealthy on a vegetarian diet and after almost 30 years still going strong. I have nothing to test or look for as at the moment it ain´t broken.(except for the T then....lol..but I only have myself to blame for that.)

The test you may consider, if heart disease runs in your family. Is a heart CT scan, to check if you have any calcified plaque in your arteries. Uncontrolled artery plaque grows at 30% a year. The dangerous plaque, is the soft plaque. Which of course causes heart attacks and strokes. It takes one year for plaque to calcify. so when you get a CT heart scan you are checking your year old plaque. which should be about 30% lower than what you have now.

 

[Gman86]

I know I asked you this before but morning BP is pretty meaningless, what is you midday, dinner time and BP just before sleep?
Almost everybody has perfect BP/HR score just after awakening but it is how your BP develops while being vertical not 8 hours horizontal...

Will definitely try to remember to take it later on and before bed. On the 16th I checked it while at work at 5pm and it was 100/63. Will report back with some readings at different times.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

The test you may consider, if heart disease runs in your family. Is a heart CT scan, to check if you have any calcified plaque in your arteries. Uncontrolled artery plaque grows at 30% a year. The dangerous plaque, is the soft plaque. Which of course causes heart attacks and strokes. It takes one year for plaque to calcify. so when you get a CT heart scan you are checking your year old plaque. which should be about 30% lower than what you have now.

I am interested what made you recommend this test as I have been a vegetarian for 27 years and only started recently eating eggs?

 

[Vince]

I am interested what made you recommend this test as I have been a vegetarian for 27 years and only started recently eating eggs?

Just because of your comment "if it ain't broken don't fix it". I don't know your family history. I would only recommend a CT scan, if heart disease ran in your family. Normally it should be done unless someone is 50 or older, 40 if heart disease runs in your family. The issue is it does use radiation and of course could contribute to cancer. the scans have improved and use much lower radiation than earlier models. It just would tell you if what you doing is working or hopefully you have great genes and have no concerns about coronary artery disease.

 

[Gman86]

It’s 8:30pm and just checked my BP. It was 118/54. Pulse was 66

 

[GreenMachineX]

@Rock H. Johnson
Why is morning BP meaningless? Or do you mean a record should be kept of BP throughout the day, and not solely rely on morning BP?

I also thought damage from high blood pressure is from consistent/chronic elevated blood pressure doing damage to the walls, and not periodic jumps throughout the day. If that were the case, squats and deadlifts would be bad, right?

 

[Vince]

@Rock H. Johnson
Why is morning BP meaningless? Or do you mean a record should be kept of BP throughout the day, and not solely rely on morning BP?

I also thought damage from high blood pressure is from consistent/chronic elevated blood pressure doing damage to the walls, and not periodic jumps throughout the day. If that were the case, squats and deadlifts would be bad, right?

When you exercise, you dramatically boost blood flow through the coronary arteries. The inner lining of the arteries responds to this "stress" much as it does to the stress of atherosclerosis, by stimulating tiny collateral blood vessels to elongate, widen, and form new connections.

A little bit of exercise won't do the trick. You need to push your heart. If you aren't used to exercising, that may mean brisk walking. If you walk, add in spurts of race walking or jogging. Swimming, bicycling, hiking "" any activity that gets your heart beating faster "" will do as long as you keep it up for 20 to 30 minutes a crack and do it several times a week.

Do-it-yourself bypass - Harvard Health

When an artery becomes narrowed by plaque, the body responds by growing and strengthening nearby blood vessels to move blood around the narrowing, possibly preventing heart disease. Vigorous...

www.health.harvard.edu

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

@Rock H. Johnson
Why is morning BP meaningless? Or do you mean a record should be kept of BP throughout the day, and not solely rely on morning BP?

I also thought damage from high blood pressure is from consistent/chronic elevated blood pressure doing damage to the walls, and not periodic jumps throughout the day. If that were the case, squats and deadlifts would be bad, right?

Yes, you need to keep a record throughout the day to see average BP as it rises because of, for instance water retention from a cardiovascular issue. I started doing it as I noticed that after I started using HCG, I had evening BP spikes from raised E2. So I could adjust my HCG dosage and frequency accordingly.

@Vince , thanks for the excellent explanation.

 

[TestOneTwo]

When you exercise, you dramatically boost blood flow through the coronary arteries. The inner lining of the arteries responds to this "stress" much as it does to the stress of atherosclerosis, by stimulating tiny collateral blood vessels to elongate, widen, and form new connections.

A little bit of exercise won't do the trick. You need to push your heart. If you aren't used to exercising, that may mean brisk walking. If you walk, add in spurts of race walking or jogging. Swimming, bicycling, hiking "" any activity that gets your heart beating faster "" will do as long as you keep it up for 20 to 30 minutes a crack and do it several times a week.

Do-it-yourself bypass - Harvard Health

When an artery becomes narrowed by plaque, the body responds by growing and strengthening nearby blood vessels to move blood around the narrowing, possibly preventing heart disease. Vigorous...

www.health.harvard.edu

Do you think you could copy and paste the relevant text pls? It's asking for membership and I must have already a hundred or so..

 

[Vince]

Do you think you could copy and paste the relevant text pls? It's asking for membership and I must have already a hundred or so..

Do-it-yourself bypass
Published: January, 2008
Helping your heart grow new blood vessels is a natural way to bypass cholesterol-clogged coronary arteries.
Picture this: You are driving down a city highway when traffic grinds to a halt. You can see a miles-long backup behind a distant construction crew that has closed off the two right lanes. Knowing the area, you merge over to a nearby exit, then follow a detour onto streets that run almost parallel to the highway. Once beyond the bottleneck, you re-enter the highway.
That's similar to what happens when cholesterol-filled plaque begins to narrow a coronary artery. Blood vessels respond to the slow, stealthy attack of artery-clogging atherosclerosis by generating a host of chemical and physical signals. An immediate action of these signals is to improve blood flow beyond the narrowing. They also bulk up tiny blood vessels that have been sitting idly in the heart since birth. As these collateral vessels grow larger, more muscular, and more interconnected, they begin to reroute some of the blood flow around the blockage (see "Growing around blocked arteries"). Such a natural bypass can keep the heart well supplied with oxygen-rich blood, much as its surgical counterpart can do.
Scientists have been trying for years to nudge collateral blood vessels to develop and prosper, but without great success. You can do it at home without anything more high-tech than a comfortable pair of shoes.

Growing around blocked arteries When cholesterol-filled plaque or another obstruction restricts blood flow (red arrows) through a coronary artery, chemical and physical signals stimulate the development of small collateral blood vessels. They form new routes for blood that can keep the heart muscle nourished.

Collaterals for insurance

Measuring the extent of collateral circulation, or blood flow through it, isn't easy. That's one reason why it has been difficult to document the impact of having, or not having, good collateral circulation. That said, studies from the 1950s onward highlight the potential of this network of recruitable blood vessels. They can:
Limit heart attack damage. Japanese researchers have shown that people with well-developed collateral circulation have smaller areas of damaged muscle after a heart attack than those with poorer collateral circulation.
Provide extra time for emergency heart attack therapy. Artery-opening angioplasty offers the best way to halt a heart attack. Ideally, such emergency angioplasty should be done no more than two to three hours after heart attack symptoms start. A German team has shown that this treatment window might stay open longer in people with healthy collateral circulation.
Improve survival. In a study published in 2007 of more than 800 men and women with stable coronary artery disease (chest pain with exertion or stress), 89% of those with good collateral circulation were still alive after 10 years of follow-up, compared with 71% of those with low collateral flow.
Bypass before surgery
Most Americans, including those without any outward signs of heart disease, have a narrowed coronary artery or two. They are the byproducts of desk jobs, plentiful food, stress, lack of exercise, and a host of other factors.
If the development of collateral vessels was the body's fail-safe response to atherosclerosis, relatively few people would have angina or other forms of ischemic heart disease (the kind caused by poor blood flow to the heart muscle). Unfortunately, not everyone is genetically programmed to effortlessly grow collateral blood vessels. Unhealthful habits also get in the way.
Researchers have tried to stimulate collateral blood vessels by bathing them with protein growth factors and bombarding them with growth-promoting genes. So far, these efforts haven't paid off. You can succeed where they haven't "" by exercising.
When you exercise, you dramatically boost blood flow through the coronary arteries. The inner lining of the arteries responds to this "stress" much as it does to the stress of atherosclerosis, by stimulating tiny collateral blood vessels to elongate, widen, and form new connections.
A little bit of exercise won't do the trick. You need to push your heart. If you aren't used to exercising, that may mean brisk walking. If you walk, add in spurts of race walking or jogging. Swimming, bicycling, hiking "" any activity that gets your heart beating faster "" will do as long as you keep it up for 20 to 30 minutes a crack and do it several times a week.
Exercise is a great way to prevent heart disease. And a host of studies show that it can help some people with narrowed coronary arteries safely avoid bypass surgery or angioplasty. It's also good for the bones, brain, and just about every other part of the body. So why not give yourself a natural bypass before you need a surgeon to perform a more painful and hazardous one?

Do-it-yourself bypass - Harvard Health

When an artery becomes narrowed by plaque, the body responds by growing and strengthening nearby blood vessels to move blood around the narrowing, possibly preventing heart disease. Vigorous...

www.health.harvard.edu

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yes, you need to keep a record throughout the day to see average BP as it rises because of, for instance water retention from a cardiovascular issue. I started doing it as I noticed that after I started using HCG, I had evening BP spikes from raised E2. So I could adjust my HCG dosage and frequency accordingly.

@Vince , thanks for the excellent explanation.

My BP ranges from morning (after showering and getting ready) 115/70 to ~150s/80 when I’m actually in a doctors office. At home later in the day I can relax and get it down to 120’s over 70. My doctor is fine with it. I workout hard 3 times a week with tire flips, sleds, carries among other heavy weight training and ride bikes 30-60 minutes a few times a week.
There’s also this:

If I’m understanding it correctly, the number isn’t so important as doing all the things that influence the numbers...

 

[Vince]

My BP ranges from morning (after showering and getting ready) 115/70 to ~150s/80 when I’m actually in a doctors office. At home later in the day I can relax and get it down to 120’s over 70. My doctor is fine with it. I workout hard 3 times a week with tire flips, sleds, carries among other heavy weight training and ride bikes 30-60 minutes a few times a week.
There’s also this:

If I’m understanding it correctly, the number isn’t so important as doing all the things that influence the numbers...

I have been told that anxiety that causes the white coat syndrome. Can be dangerous. It should be something that you learn how to correct.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I have been told that anxiety that causes the white coat syndrome. Can be dangerous. It should be something that you learn how to correct.

Interesting; I’ve heard it’s not dangerous. Where did you see that?

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

My BP ranges from morning (after showering and getting ready) 115/70 to ~150s/80 when I’m actually in a doctors office. At home later in the day I can relax and get it down to 120’s over 70. My doctor is fine with it. I workout hard 3 times a week with tire flips, sleds, carries among other heavy weight training and ride bikes 30-60 minutes a few times a week.
There’s also this:

If I’m understanding it correctly, the number isn’t so important as doing all the things that influence the numbers...

I put no importance on the number then as one of the feedback signals to adjust my protocol.
This was also the reason why I asked Gman86 to do a check throughout the day because he uses Nandrolone as his base. I have no anxiety about numbers or take BP as a main driver of CVD risk, there is much more to this then just a number.
Anyways I feel much better, awake when my BP is in the 115-120/75 range then below this. I become lethargic when BP goes below 110/70, probably the constant heat where we live has a lot to do with it.

 

[Vince]

Interesting; I’ve heard it’s not dangerous. Where did you see that?

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