TRT and AI

[MYTVC15]

Thanks antelopers, thing is I'm diabetic so I watch carbs like a hawk and besides...I eat the same thing every day out of the week save one. So i was shocked after 6 weeks of TRT to go back to the doc and find a 10 pound gain. It didn't make sense and so she was quick to blame the high E2 for water retention and give me Arimidex. According to what I've read cypionate by itself causes water retention not high E2 so she may be wrong about that.

i could have sworn i read Jay Campbell say that bodybuilders prefer propionate because of little to no water retention. I'll have to see if I can find that. Even if true, that still leaves the problem of high E2 and when exactly is it too high? is it a ratio that should guide or as Jay suggests, try to keep it in the middle of the sensitive E2 range...

Wouldn't it be great if we had home lab equipment to test ourselves whenever we wanted.

 

[antelopers]

Thanks antelopers, thing is I'm diabetic so I watch carbs like a hawk and besides...I eat the same thing every day out of the week save one. So i was shocked after 6 weeks of TRT to go back to the doc and find a 10 pound gain. It didn't make sense and so she was quick to blame the high E2 for water retention and give me Arimidex. According to what I've read cypionate by itself causes water retention not high E2 so she may be wrong about that.

i could have sworn i read Jay Campbell say that bodybuilders prefer propionate because of little to no water retention. I'll have to see if I can find that. Even if true, that still leaves the problem of high E2 and when exactly is it too high? is it a ratio that should guide or as Jay suggests, try to keep it in the middle of the sensitive E2 range...

Wouldn't it be great if we had home lab equipment to test ourselves whenever we wanted.

I've heard the same thing about cyp. I've also been told it's bs so I don't know who to believe lol.

I can confirm back in my steroid days that yes, propionate seems to make you hold far less water than the other esters. I'm not sure how it applies to trt doses.

Either way I'm starting prop tomorrow at a pretty decent dose, 40mg eod. I'll let you know how I do in about 8 weeks after I spend some time on the protocol and get bloodwork.

 

[MYTVC15]

I've heard the same thing about cyp. I've also been told it's bs so I don't know who to believe lol.

I can confirm back in my steroid days that yes, propionate seems to make you hold far less water than the other esters. I'm not sure how it applies to trt doses.

Either way I'm starting prop tomorrow at a pretty decent dose, 40mg eod. I'll let you know how I do in about 8 weeks after I spend some time on the protocol and get bloodwork.

Cool, looks like we'll soon find out one way or the other then. I go to see a new doc on the 25th. When I told him my numbers over the phone he couldn't believe she had me on such a low dose and told me to start taking 200mg. a week. I told him, Yea doc, get this...when she told me she was upping me to 160mg. I said to her listen, I have lab work from back in 2002 that shows my total T at 667 THAT is when I first started feeling like crap and it looks to me like you'll be happy just to see me around that number. She looks at me and no lie says, We don't create sex gods here. I actually said, what the fuck? out loud. And she starts launching into this crap about how she's Catholic, I suppose the implication being that she knows I'm not married and therefore I shouldn't be having sex. She says, Yea we don't want guys becoming sex predators. Now I'm like holy shit, this woman is off her rocker...I am so done here.

Then, I go to Walgreens to get the script. They're like ok, the Arimidex script is fine but there's something off about the Test script, we'll have to call them. I say, ok, text me when everything is ready and I'll come back and pick it up. Three hours later I get the text. I drive to the drive through and they're like listen, the one script is ready but we've called them 3 times about the other, no answer. We've faxed them, left a voicemail and nothing. So I call them right there and ask them what's going on. I try to give my phone to the pharmacy tech but she says she's not allowed to use it, so I tell the woman that answered at the docs office that Walgreen's will be calling as soon as I hang up, please answer the phone. So the tech says, ok, once we clarify this order we'll text you. I take the Arimidex script and go, I get the text not ten minutes later and go back. The tech puts a bag in the box, slides it towards me and says that'll be ten dollars.

Ten dollars??? Wait, Last time I got T it was 30 dollars. So I'm like, what is that? She says it's a 1ml vial of testosterone. I say, 1ml? What am I supposed to do with that? She then proceeds to tell me that when they asked for clarification on that script they were told that the clinic has a new policy and it's to order 1ml per week. I'm like Oh really? So they think I'm going to go to a pharmacist every week to pick up one ml at ten dollars a pop, a 60 dollar increase over the 10ml vial to boot. I said Look, you can keep that. The next time you see me It will be to pick up a 10ml vial of T and the script will be for a higher dose.

 

[Systemlord]

It's clear that the cost of testosterone cypionate is being increased to generate more profit as TRT has become more popular than ever. It's like they are feeding you breadcrumbs instead of giving the entire loaf of bread.

Slowly but surely, the cost of TRT will increase in the near future and we'll look back and remember how dirt cheap TRT used to be. This clinic and pharmacy are in this together because they both benefit.

 

[MYTVC15]

It's clear that the cost of testosterone cypionate is being increased to generate more profit as TRT has become more popular than ever. It's like they are feeding you breadcrumbs instead of giving the entire loaf of bread.

Slowly but surely, the cost of TRT will increase in the near future and we'll look back and remember how dirt cheap TRT used to be. This clinic and pharmacy are in this together because they both benefit.

Well, getting rid of both of them seems like a good idea then. One is history already so when the new doc asks where I want the scripts sent to, it will be a new pharmacy.

 

[Systemlord]

Well, getting rid of both of them seems like a good idea then. One is history already so when the new doc asks where I want the scripts sent to, it will be a new pharmacy.

The retail pharmacies (CVS/Walgreens) seem to be the only ones using the 1ml vials, the compounding pharmacies are using 5ml/200mg vials and you get 3 months worth of medicine, in other words you get the entire loaf of bread and no games.

 

[MYTVC15]

The retail pharmacies (CVS/Walgreens) seem to be the only ones using the 1ml vials, the compounding pharmacies are using 5ml/200mg vials and you get 3 months worth of medicine, in other words you get the entire loaf of bread and no games.

Well, six weeks before the same pharmacy handed me a 200mg. per ml - 10ml vial of test cypionate so I know they carry it. Thing is she asked me whether I wanted a 10ml vial or a bunch of 1ml vials and I told her the 10ml vial and that's what I got. Now six weeks later they've "changed their policy" and they will only prescribe 1ml vial per week. I'm thinking it's because they want to be in control of administering the doses and they think if I have to go to the pharmacy every week, I might as well just drive there and have them do it.
Not happening, I'm an RN and I know her age and I know mine, so I know I was already giving IM injections to people while she was in 6th grade. So there's no way in Hell I'm showing up anywhere once a week to have someone give me an IM when I do it for a living.

 

[HealthMan]

Thanks for the great question.

My opinion is that:

1- AIs should not be prescribed at TRT start.

2- Sensitive estradiol should be measured after 6-8 weeks

3- A ratio of testosterone to estradiol of 14 and higher is not a cause of gynecomastia (divide ng/dL by pg/mL). All men on TRT have that kind of ratios.

4- Unless you have strong genetic predisposition to gynecomastia, AI's should not be used. If AIs are used, most men do not need doses over 0.25- 0.5 mg per week.

5- Water retention and sensitive nipples are usually NOT a symptom of high estradiol.

6- Using AIs have never been proven to decrease water retention. Water retention on TRT is caused by sodium retention.

7- It is not easy to recover from crashing your estradiol. Low estradiol can decrease sex drive and penis sensitivity, bone density and increase fat mass.

More here:

View attachment 8427

I have lowered my testosterone dosage to the minimum that brings me benefits from being on TRT but if I don’t take a small dosage of anastrozole i get gyno. My only alternative to anastrozole would be to take a small dosage of tamoxifen (10mg twice a week does the tricky). In your opinion which alternative is better in my case. 0.10mg anastrozole 2x a week or 10mg tamoxifen 2x a week. From what i have read anastrozole side effect profile is way better.
Nothing i read makes me belief that 0.2mg of anastrozole a week will have any negative consequences to my health long term. My estradiol sensitive sits between 20-25 (anything higher than that i get gyno). Before TRT my estradiol sensitive was in the mid single digits