Trough FT of 125 is low, yes? (Daily 50/50 Enan/Prop)

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Hey all - after years of disappointment on Cyp and a glimmer of hope on Enanthate, I began a 50/50 blend of Enanthate and Prop two months ago. Results have been ok but not as good as I was hoping for; just got my lab work back and free T is 125! I've been injecting every morning; also, due to a lab messup the actual draw was about 27 hours since my last injection.

I realize with shorter esters I'll have a faster up- and downswing but 125 does seem low; on Cyp a free T of 200 was fine but when my trough got closer to 250 I started feeling negative effects. Thinking I'll up my dosage and see how I feel and what the labs say - is that a decent plan?

For context I'm low SHBG and E2 came back at 33.

Thanks all!

 

[Cataceous]

Which free testosterone test is that, both methodology and normal range? If it's a so-called direct test it's nearly meaningless. With many FT tests 125 pg/mL is very robust, sometimes even excessive, for a daily trough value. Increasingly I think the daily peak value of free testosterone is the more important parameter, as long as troughs are not extremely low.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Hey Cataceous - thanks for the reply. It's the one I've always gotten under the Male section of Discounted Labs, in a bundle with ultrasensitive E2 and hematocrit; it says TESTOSTERONE, FREE (DIALYSIS) AND TOTAL,MS; does that help? Range is 35-155 pg/ml. Total T was 722 (range 250-1100), which since I'm low SHBG is unusually low. Also interesting that the peak would be more relevant - any chance there is a target value for it? Wondering if I need to test at peak (which might be 3 hours after injection?) vs increasing my dosage...

 

[WhiteMale]

Youre devoting too much attention to numbers on a piece of paper or what others think than how you feel. Too if I read you right, youre trying to base dose change on what you yourself called a lab error on your last test.

 

[Cataceous]

Hey Cataceous - thanks for the reply. It's the one I've always gotten under the Male section of Discounted Labs, in a bundle with ultrasensitive E2 and hematocrit; it says TESTOSTERONE, FREE (DIALYSIS) AND TOTAL,MS; does that help? Range is 35-155 pg/ml. Total T was 722 (range 250-1100), which since I'm low SHBG is unusually low. Also interesting that the peak would be more relevant - any chance there is a target value for it? Wondering if I need to test at peak (which might be 3 hours after injection?) vs increasing my dosage...

Ok, that is a good FT test, and I consider 125 pg/mL to be high for a daily trough level. Three hours post-injection is a reasonable time to start looking for the peak. Best guess is that the peak occurs in the 2-6 hour range.

The truth about using numbers is that they are important, but they do not provide exact guidance for optimization. Excursions outside of physiological ranges are asking for trouble; there are known and unknown long-term risks, and in these cases it's almost guaranteed that you cannot match what you had at your natural best. A low-and-slow approach within the physiological range is still hard to beat.

In your case you have a trough that is towards the high end of the physiological range. This means the peak value is well above the range. I'd rather see you start with a peak around 60-70 pg/mL and slowly go up from there—if needed. The problem with starting high is that lower doses often feel bad until your body readjusts to more normal levels.

 

[Vince]

I agree with white male. Don't just look at the numbers. Look at how you feel. Many members here. Think my levels are way too high even though that's when I feel my best. As long as I keep my and a HCT in a good place. I'm happy.

If you have issues with anxiety or depression it seems like trt, Will always be a struggle.

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Hey all - last week I tested four hours after injecting and my free T is 216. Defy has wanted me to be around 200 free T, so with a peak of 216 and a trough of 125, isn't this about where I "should" be?

I certainly understand that different people feel different at different levels, and I've started very low and worked up two different times (on other esters), waiting 12 weeks to test and see how I felt before slowly increasing dosage, and it does seem that I generally don't respond that well to TRT; I do require larger doses to alleviate symptoms. Daily injection and experimenting with Prop has helped; if these levels are about where they should be, I may continue to increase the percentage of Prop vs. Enanthate and see how I respond.

Many thanks for all the help!

 

[Willyt]

Hey all - last week I tested four hours after injecting and my free T is 216. Defy has wanted me to be around 200 free T, so with a peak of 216 and a trough of 125, isn't this about where I "should" be?

I certainly understand that different people feel different at different levels, and I've started very low and worked up two different times (on other esters), waiting 12 weeks to test and see how I felt before slowly increasing dosage, and it does seem that I generally don't respond that well to TRT; I do require larger doses to alleviate symptoms. Daily injection and experimenting with Prop has helped; if these levels are about where they should be, I may continue to increase the percentage of Prop vs. Enanthate and see how I respond.

Many thanks for all the help!

Thanks for the follow-up. Always good to see that around here.

Why would you continue to increase dose?

 

[50BMGdoesitforme]

Thanks for the follow-up. Always good to see that around here.

Why would you continue to increase dose?

Hey Willy - sorry for the misunderstanding; I don't see any need to increase dose but I will likely experiment with increasing the proportion of Prop in my blend, but overall dosage won't change.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Hey Willy - sorry for the misunderstanding; I don't see any need to increase dose but I will likely experiment with increasing the proportion of Prop in my blend, but overall dosage won't change.

I would not increase the proportion of prop in your blend, when your trough is already close to 50% of your peak. You would just be making that swing more exaggerated, and I don't think going beyond the large variation you have already will be very desirable. I would personally just try another dose increase from here if you aren't satisfied.

What proportion of each are you using, what carrier oil, injection site and injection depth?