Testosterone Cypionate vs Enanthate Ester break down

[Fortunate]

It's sold as Hikma and I buy it through Defy's online store, then it is shipped from Empower pharmacy. Here's a pic of the box:

View attachment 38826

What kind of doses are you doing EOD?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

What kind of doses are you doing EOD?

30 mg EOD for 105 mg weekly. I wanted to start around 100 mg and 28 mg EOD would technically be closer (98 mg weekly) but psychologically I prefer the rounder number of 30 mg and being slightly above rather than below 100 mg.

I was prescribed 40 mg EOD (140 weekly) but I would rather work up to that slowly.

 

[RotnGun]

30 mg EOD for 105 mg weekly. I wanted to start around 100 mg and 28 mg EOD would technically be closer (98 mg weekly) but psychologically I prefer the rounder number of 30 mg and being slightly above rather than below 100 mg.

I was prescribed 40 mg EOD (140 weekly) but I would rather work up to that slowly.

@FunkOdyssey
What is the carrier oil in the Hikma Test enanthate? Any ideal of the alcohol percentage?

 

[madman]

@FunkOdyssey
What is the carrier oil in the Hikma Test enanthate? Any ideal of the alcohol percentage?

Sesame.

There is no BOH in the formulation.

DailyMed - TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE injection, solution

dailymed.nlm.nih.gov

Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer

I honestly cant tell you why for sure, but I normally don’t handle my levels being that high on injections very well….it jacks me up, worsens anxiety and actually worsens “brain fog”…..the cream gave me a burst of energy but just felt “cleaner” for lack of a better word, at levels that I cannot...

www.excelmale.com

 

[FunkOdyssey]

@FunkOdyssey
What is the carrier oil in the Hikma Test enanthate? Any ideal of the alcohol percentage?

It's sesame oil with 0.5% chlorobutanol, no alcohol, nothing else. I think the lack of benzyl benzoate makes it significantly more viscous and slower to draw up in the syringe but that's a small price to pay for how much better I'm feeling with this product.

BTW I had the same exaggerated LPR symptoms with compounded propionate as with compounded cypionate and the common denominator there is benzyl benzoate and benzyl alcohol. That's part of what drove my suspicion, because I wasn't getting it with cream, so I felt like it wasn't the testosterone itself.

 

[Blackhawk]

I've often thought to myself that something with a half life between propionate and enanthate would be the jam for me, if something like that existed.

Some of us do well blending the two for daily dosing.

 

[RotnGun]

Sesame.

There is no BOH in the formulation.

DailyMed - TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE injection, solution

dailymed.nlm.nih.gov

View attachment 38941

Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer

I honestly cant tell you why for sure, but I normally don’t handle my levels being that high on injections very well….it jacks me up, worsens anxiety and actually worsens “brain fog”…..the cream gave me a burst of energy but just felt “cleaner” for lack of a better word, at levels that I cannot...

www.excelmale.com

Do you figure that the viscous of the Hikma Test E oil would extend the half life of Test E considering there is no alcohol or benzyl benzoate in it?

 

[RotnGun]

It's sesame oil with 0.5% chlorobutanol, no alcohol, nothing else. I think the lack of benzyl benzoate makes it significantly more viscous and slower to draw up in the syringe but that's a small price to pay for how much better I'm feeling with this product.

BTW I had the same exaggerated LPR symptoms with compounded propionate as with compounded cypionate and the common denominator there is benzyl benzoate and benzyl alcohol. That's part of what drove my suspicion, because I wasn't getting it with cream, so I felt like it wasn't the testosterone itself.

I figure that your test E would expire faster then something like Pfizer test cyp without the BB/BA in it. What is the expire date of your Hikma test E?

 

[madman]

Do you figure that the viscous of the Hikma Test E oil would extend the half life of Test E considering there is no alcohol or benzyl benzoate in it?

As I stated in a previous thread Hikma TE is the generic version of the brand named Delatestryl.

Both formulations use sesame oil as the carrier and 0.5% chlorobutanol as a preservative.

Even without the BOH Delatestryl which uses sesame oil as the carrier is not that viscous.

I have been using big pharma Delatestryl (TE) for over 6 years injecting 150 mg TE split (75 mg every 3.5 days) using a BD 1 mL (100 units) or .5 mL (50 units) 27-31 gauge LDS insulin syringe.

Never had an issue drawing/injecting the oily solution using 27-31G needles.

Fairly quick when using 27-28G and still no issue when using 30-31G although it is a little slower.

Also had a run using big pharma Depo-Testosterone (TC) which uses cottonseed oil as the carrier and never had an issue drawing/injecting even when using 27-31G insulin syringes.

If you are injecting larger volumes (.5-1 mL) of the oily solution then it would take longer to draw/inject when using a 30-31G.

Breaking the seal (air pocket) when drawing from the vial makes a big difference in how fast you can draw up the oily solution.

As I have stated numerous times on the forum would not get too caught up on carrier oils let alone whether the formulation uses BOH or BB.

Again when it comes to the PKs there are many other factors that affect the rate at which testosterone is released from the oily depot at the injection site.

Sub-q vs IM, the volume of injection, injection depth, site of injection, lymphatic flow, and the concentration of BOH (benzyl alcohol) are other possible factors that can affect the absorption rates of the esterified hormone.

 

[madman]

I figure that your test E would expire faster then something like Pfizer test cyp without the BB/BA in it. What is the expire date of your Hikma test E?

No, it has 0.5% chlorobutanol as a preservative.

 

[madman]

I figure that your test E would expire faster then something like Pfizer test cyp without the BB/BA in it. What is the expire date of your Hikma test E?

You are from Canada.

Your only options for legit injectable T are big pharma Delatestryl (TE)/Depo-Testosterone (TC), or the generic Taro-Testosterone (TC)

 

[FunkOdyssey]

As I stated in a previous thread Hikma TE is the generic version of the brand named Delatestryl.

I have been using big pharma Delatestryl (TE) for over 6 years...

As I have stated numerous times on the forum would not get too caught up on carrier oils let alone whether the formulation uses BOH or BB.

You may say it isn't worth sweating these details but it seems to me you've decided on using the good stuff for your own protocol. While I recognize I'm probably a rare case, the excipient differences look like they're making a big difference for me.

 

[madman]

You may say it isn't worth sweating these details but it seems to me you've decided on using the good stuff for your own protocol. While I recognize I'm probably a rare case, the excipient differences look like they're making a big difference for me.

While I recognize I'm probably a rare case, the excipient differences look like they're making a big difference for me.

Yes, no one would know better than you.


You may say it isn't worth sweating these details but it seems to me you've decided on using the good stuff for your own protocol.

Just to be clear the main reason I settled on the Delatestryl (TE) over the Depo-Testosterone (TC) has nothing to do with the formulations let alone PKs.

It came down to the strength of T.

Delatestryl (TE) is 200 mg/mL and unfortunately in Canada Depo-Testosterone (TC) is only available in 100 mg/mL whether big pharma or the more recently released generic Taro-Testosterone (TC).

To be honest, if the TC was available in the 200 mg/mL strength I would have stuck with it.

Also, keep in mind that I am injecting strictly sub-q and it is more advantageous to inject lower volumes of the oily solution as this can help minimize/prevent the chance of having a bad reaction such as nodules/bumps.

Drug Shortage Report for DELATESTRYL

Delatestryl (TE) 200 mg/mL

Drug Shortage Report for DEPO-TESTOSTERONE INJ 100MG/ML

Depo-Testosterone (TC) 100 mg/mL

Drug Shortage Report for TARO-TESTOSTERONE CYPIONATE INJECTION

Taro-Testosterone (TC) 100 mg/mL

 

[Fortunate]

You may say it isn't worth sweating these details but it seems to me you've decided on using the good stuff for your own protocol. While I recognize I'm probably a rare case, the excipient differences look like they're making a big difference for me.

I definitely agree. I seem to tolerate Xyosted fairly well, but it’s expensive and obviously you’re boxed in by the fixed dosing. Only explanation I can think of is the lack of excipients/preservatives.

 

[Fortunate]

30 mg EOD for 105 mg weekly. I wanted to start around 100 mg and 28 mg EOD would technically be closer (98 mg weekly) but psychologically I prefer the rounder number of 30 mg and being slightly above rather than below 100 mg.

I was prescribed 40 mg EOD (140 weekly) but I would rather work up to that slowly.

@FunkOdyssey, you may have answered this, but were you injecting this amount or similar amounts prior to getting the Hikma brand? Is everything else similar?

One of the reasons I ask is based on my observation that I feel like crap with most injections except Xyosted. My theory has been that it due to the lack of extra crap in the sesame oil. This is probably the explanation, but one other possible explanation may be related to the injected amount.

When I inject with a multi-use vial, I tend to inject small amounts (10-15 mg at a time). Xyosted is 50, 75 or 100. It is possible (although, not likely) that the larger amount leads to a slightly different ratio of T and metabolites than smaller amounts that may lead me to feel differently.

One of these days, I will sack up and try to inject a large amount out of a multi-use vial and see how I feel.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

@FunkOdyssey, you may have answered this, but were you injecting this amount or similar amounts prior to getting the Hikma brand? Is everything else similar?

When I was on cypionate, I spent most of the time on smaller daily doses between 10-15 mg because I could not tolerate larger doses. I did try them several times, including 30 mg and 45 mg doses, and everything was worse on the large doses, even when keeping the weekly total close to the same.

With the Hikma TE, I am not having any issues with larger doses. In fact, I'm tolerating it so well I decided maybe I don't need to start so cautiously, and tried bumping up to my prescribed EOD dose of 40 mg this morning. Totally fine so far.

 

[RotnGun]

What was you total test, free test, SHBG and estrogen when you were injecting 10 to 15mg of test C everyday as well as when you switched it up to 30mg of Test C every 2 days? Do you take HCG? If so, how much?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

What was you total test, free test, SHBG and estrogen when you were injecting 10 to 15mg of test C everyday as well as when you switched it up to 30mg of Test C every 2 days? Do you take HCG? If so, how much?

I didn't do 30 mg TC EOD long enough to get any labs.

On the 10-15 mg daily regimen, I had 811 ng/dL total, SHBG 35 nmol/L, 126.5 pg/mL free T (EqD), 18.2 ng/dL calculated free T, DHT 31 ng/dL, E2 ultrasensitive 22 pg/mL. The DHT and E2 were both lower than my natural baseline which was interesting and might have explained why I wasn't seeing much benefit. I couldn't tolerate a dose increase to get those metabolites higher though.

I haven't used hCG. I don't need to maintain fertility and would rather keep things simple.

 

[Fortunate]

Do you also notice that it takes forever to draw up in the syringe? I've been using 31g 5/16" needles for subq injections but I might go for something larger gauge. I think one of the functions of benzyl benzoate that we're missing here is to thin out the solution and allow it to flow more easily. I'm happy to wait longer drawing my dose to feel better though.

Did you change your needle/syringe size? This stuff is pretty thick.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Did you change your needle/syringe size? This stuff is pretty thick.

You got it already? That's awesome. I am actually going to try some larger gauge needles. 31g isn't going to fly with this stuff long-term. It took me several minutes to fill .2 ml yesterday.