Supraphysiological test levels after stopping TRT

[CanadaJim]

I am throwing this question to the vast amount of knowledge on this board. My last Test-Cyp injection was February 4th (75mg, shallow IM, which I had been injecting weekly for less than 2 months). I had started low dose clomid (25mg eod) but stopped that 4 weeks prior to scheduled blood work.

My Doc only did a total testosterone level on March 25th. My test came back through the roof (29nmol/l - normal values peak at 24nmol/l). I asked him why he thinks it is still so elevated and he said he thinks that my system is in "bounce back mode". My question is why do I feel like I have low testosterone? My libido is low. I'm able to do the deed but could care less if I do or not. Achieving orgasm is also difficult. My levels indicate that I should be experiencing the benefits of high testosterone.

Can test levels stay elevated that long after stopping exogenous test? I wasn't doing huge amounts of compounds just test-cyp at 75mg weekly, and I wasn't even doing it for a long period. Is there such a thing as "bounce back" as my doc stated? I have always had a higher SHBG (last one was 51.8nmol/l - normal high end is 50.0). This has been elevated I believe since I started this testosterone "adventure" (which has been off and on over the last three years)

I do take a number of supplements;
Boron 6mg, vitamin D (4000IU), multi-vitamin, Zinc, Omega's, probiotic.

Could the higher SHBG be the culprit? Should I continue with Clomid? Why am I at such a high test level? I have no plans of starting test again, and I do not want to start again unless it is indicated and prescribed.

I am not overweight. I am fit, active, eat a healthy diet and an example of if it ain't broke don't try to fix it.....

 

[Cataceous]

The testosterone cypionate should be long gone. It's possible that the Clomid pushed up SHBG and it's slow in coming back down. That would artificially inflate total testosterone while free testosterone remains unremarkable. The estrogenic zuclomiphene isomer of Clomid has an exceptionally long half-life. The residual zuclomiphene could also be affecting your current subjective results.

Even with above-average SHBG your free testosterone is probably adequate. If you continue to have problems then I would measure prolactin, along with SHBG, total testosterone and estradiol. If you have access to an accurate free testosterone test then I'd get that too. You can also just give it some more time. There's a reasonable chance things will improve.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I am throwing this question to the vast amount of knowledge on this board. My last Test-Cyp injection was February 4th (75mg, shallow IM, which I had been injecting weekly for less than 2 months). I had started low dose clomid (25mg eod) but stopped that 4 weeks prior to scheduled blood work.

My Doc only did a total testosterone level on March 25th. My test came back through the roof (29nmol/l - normal values peak at 24nmol/l). I asked him why he thinks it is still so elevated and he said he thinks that my system is in "bounce back mode". My question is why do I feel like I have low testosterone? My libido is low. I'm able to do the deed but could care less if I do or not. Achieving orgasm is also difficult. My levels indicate that I should be experiencing the benefits of high testosterone.

Can test levels stay elevated that long after stopping exogenous test? I wasn't doing huge amounts of compounds just test-cyp at 75mg weekly, and I wasn't even doing it for a long period. Is there such a thing as "bounce back" as my doc stated? I have always had a higher SHBG (last one was 51.8nmol/l - normal high end is 50.0). This has been elevated I believe since I started this testosterone "adventure" (which has been off and on over the last three years)

I do take a number of supplements;
Boron 6mg, vitamin D (4000IU), multi-vitamin, Zinc, Omega's, probiotic.

Could the higher SHBG be the culprit? Should I continue with Clomid? Why am I at such a high test level? I have no plans of starting test again, and I do not want to start again unless it is indicated and prescribed.

I am not overweight. I am fit, active, eat a healthy diet and an example of if it ain't broke don't try to fix it.....

Can't answer that question, but why did you stop?

 

[Systemlord]

I asked him why he thinks it is still so elevated and he said he thinks that my system is in "bounce back mode".

I have a single day I would describe as a "bounce back mode", it occured 4.5 weeks after stopping TRT. I woke up and noticed I was feeling unusually well after 4.5 weeks of not feeling well.

For a day I felt the high testosterone, then the next day all the good feeling was gone. My diabetes hasn't been under control at this point, so I know this is why my restart failed.

If I can truly reverse the diabetes, may be the next time (if there is one) things will end differently.

 

[Fortunate]

I have a single day I would describe as a "bounce back mode", it occured 4.5 weeks after stopping TRT. I woke up and noticed I was feeling unusually well after 4.5 weeks of not feeling well.

For a day I felt the high testosterone, then the next day all the good feeling was gone. My diabetes hasn't been under control at this point, so I know this is why my restart failed.

If I can truly reverse the diabetes, may be the next time (if there is one) things will end differently.

Have you ever tried a very low carb diet?

 

[CanadaJim]

The testosterone cypionate should be long gone. It's possible that the Clomid pushed up SHBG and it's slow in coming back down. That would artificially inflate total testosterone while free testosterone remains unremarkable. The estrogenic zuclomiphene isomer of Clomid has an exceptionally long half-life. The residual zuclomiphene could also be affecting your current subjective results.

Even with above-average SHBG your free testosterone is probably adequate. If you continue to have problems then I would measure prolactin, along with SHBG, total testosterone and estradiol. If you have access to an accurate free testosterone test then I'd get that too. You can also just give it some more time. There's a reasonable chance things will improve.

My past blood work results indicated that my SHBG was elevated while taking testosterone...so maybe the clomid is not ideal? I'm just taking 12.5mg MWF...last test injection was Feb 4th (75mg cypionate)...with this low dose of clomid what would be the expected duration to be effective in helping jump starting the hpta? I'm thinking about just stopping altogether. Starting to experience the "itchy nipple" effect and i'm not sure if it's the clomid or the fact my test has finally reached the below normal level...

 

[CanadaJim]

Can't answer that question, but why did you stop?

Well I started on the basis of a comment my doc at the time made. He said my test number was "low normal". So that set me into a bit of a tail spin. A buddy of mine had recently been started on testosterone and when discussing his symptoms I realized I shared some of his symptoms. I was still within the dreaded normal range (so not a candidate for prescribed treatment) so I took it upon myself. That was three years ago. Felt amazing at first, but eventually developed sides that were not nice. Could never get dialed in. I developed a eczema/psoriasis like skin issue which has never left.... Nipple eczema with discharge when I scratch, low libido, low energy...when I actually got my hands on my initial blood work I realized my Doc at the time had no basis to tell me I was low normal. My test levels were actually slightly higher than mid range. That started me on this "adventure" and I'm more than happy to jump off the train. I'm just hopeful that at my age (54) I didn't permanently damage my system and with a little help will return to my original levels.

 

[Cataceous]

My past blood work results indicated that my SHBG was elevated while taking testosterone...so maybe the clomid is not ideal? I'm just taking 12.5mg MWF...last test injection was Feb 4th (75mg cypionate)...with this low dose of clomid what would be the expected duration to be effective in helping jump starting the hpta? I'm thinking about just stopping altogether. Starting to experience the "itchy nipple" effect and i'm not sure if it's the clomid or the fact my test has finally reached the below normal level...

Clomid does tend to create a lot of estrogenic activity, which in turn can raise SHBG. However, elevated SHBG by itself is likely less problematic than we used to believe; it appears to have little influence on free testosterone, which is the parameter most closely—and inversely—tied to symptoms of hypogonadism. Estrogenic side effects are common with Clomid.

Typically in restarts a SERM is used for only a month or two. There's no ideal SERM, but Clomid ranks below enclomiphene because of the zuclomiphene and its long half-life. At least your dose it low

 

[CanadaJim]

Clomid does tend to create a lot of estrogenic activity, which in turn can raise SHBG. However, elevated SHBG by itself is likely less problematic than we used to believe; it appears to have little influence on free testosterone, which is the parameter most closely—and inversely—tied to symptoms of hypogonadism. Estrogenic side effects are common with Clomid.

Typically in restarts a SERM is used for only a month or two. There's no ideal SERM, but Clomid ranks below enclomiphene because of the zuclomiphene and its long half-life. At least your dose it low

Thanks so much for the info. I think I'll continue the clomid for a few more weeks then stop and see where I'm at. I'm hoping that as levels return to baseline things will improve. Mt only concern at the moment is the libido. I do miss that initial feeling when i first tried testosterone...huge spike in libido...youthful energy...etc...but the sides...damn...for the life of me I can't understand how some guys can do copious amounts of compounds and fully recover without issue...I am feeling better the farther I get away from my last test injection so hopefully I'm on the path to recovery