Rate my protocol

[62caster]

I am zeroing in on 10 weeks of Test Cyp at 200mg/week. 33 y/o male. Free test prior was 49 pg/mL. Total was 245.9 ng/dL.

My doc who is also a younger male, also taking TRT, gave me a protocol of weekly injection of 200mg testosterone cypionate. No other medications. He’s going to check for estrogen levels at my next appointment and also look at iron levels. He seems legit, though he is only a PCP.

I’m scared of all the normal side effects - gyno in particular absolutely scares me to death.

I have labs in 4 weeks. Should I push for them sooner? Also, does the dosage seem high? Everybody seems to think 200mg is way too high.

I’m 6’1, 250, non-athletic.

 

[tareload]

I am zeroing in on 10 weeks of Test Cyp at 200mg/week. 33 y/o male. Free test prior was 49 pg/mL. Total was 245.9 ng/dL.

My doc who is also a younger male, also taking TRT, gave me a protocol of weekly injection of 200mg testosterone cypionate. No other medications. He’s going to check for estrogen levels at my next appointment and also look at iron levels. He seems legit, though he is only a PCP.

I’m scared of all the normal side effects - gyno in particular absolutely scares me to death.

I have labs in 4 weeks. Should I push for them sooner? Also, does the dosage seem high? Everybody seems to think 200mg is way too high.

I’m 6’1, 250, non-athletic.

Let us know where you land....

Tool to Assess your TT Dose Response -- Percentile Curves

I ran 360mg/week split 3x per week, TT was 2041ng/dL, however SHBG was single digits from a bit of Var. Not sure if that info is useful for your graphs or not. Here you can see how the oxandrolone skewed your place percentile wise on the graph by lowering your SHBG. Thanks for clarifying the...

forums.t-nation.com

How do you like the odds?

 

[Systemlord]

I have labs in 4 weeks. Should I push for them sooner?

You've reach about 87% steady levels, levels will increase a little higher in 2 more weeks.

This dosage will likely put your Total T and Free T levels well above normal. What you really need to focus your attention on is the hemoglobin levels.

Do understand TRT is not a set and forget therapy, your hormone levels will still fluctuate.

Also, does the dosage seem high? Everybody seems to think 200mg is way too high.

Yeah, 200 mg is high for a TRT dosage, most needing 100-150 mg to feel optimal and some outliers needing less than 100 mg.

 

[62caster]

Let us know where you land....

Tool to Assess your TT Dose Response -- Percentile Curves

I ran 360mg/week split 3x per week, TT was 2041ng/dL, however SHBG was single digits from a bit of Var. Not sure if that info is useful for your graphs or not. Here you can see how the oxandrolone skewed your place percentile wise on the graph by lowering your SHBG. Thanks for clarifying the...

forums.t-nation.com

How do you like the odds?

I wish I could figure out how to interpret this but I’ve been looking at it for awhile now and can’t figure out where I land.

 

[madman]

I am zeroing in on 10 weeks of Test Cyp at 200mg/week. 33 y/o male. Free test prior was 49 pg/mL. Total was 245.9 ng/dL.

My doc who is also a younger male, also taking TRT, gave me a protocol of weekly injection of 200mg testosterone cypionate. No other medications. He’s going to check for estrogen levels at my next appointment and also look at iron levels. He seems legit, though he is only a PCP.

I’m scared of all the normal side effects - gyno in particular absolutely scares me to death.

I have labs in 4 weeks. Should I push for them sooner? Also, does the dosage seem high? Everybody seems to think 200mg is way too high.

I’m 6’1, 250, non-athletic.

Too high a dose to start someone on off the hop.

200 mg T/week is overkill for most.

Easily going to have your peak (8-12 hrs post-injection/during the first few days) TT, FT, and estradiol levels sky-high only to be followed by much lower levels come week's end (trough).

Even then many can still hit a high-end trough on such a dose.

Let alone it is a given that your RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit will be driven high.

Looks like you may be heading for that donating blood frequently merry-go-round.

The downfall of injecting once weekly is that there is going to be a significant difference between peak--->trough and blood levels will not be as stable throughout the week which can easily have a negative impact on energy, mood, libido, erectile function, and recovery.

Although some may do well on a once-weekly protocol many tend to inject more frequently (twice weekly, M/W/F, EOD, or daily) which will clip the peak--->trough and blood levels will be more stable throughout the week.

Would be far better of starting low and go slow.

Most men start on 100 mg T/week.

Many would prefer injecting twice-weekly (50 mg T every 3.5 days).

Most can easily achieve a healthy let alone high trough FT level of 100-150 mg/week.

Sure there may be some outliers who need the higher-end dose but it is far from common.

You are 10 weeks in.

Would have been more sensible to have blood work done 6 weeks in as blood levels will have stabilized (4-6 weeks TC/TE).

At least you would have known where your trough TT, FT, and estradiol levels would have sat let alone important blood markers such as RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

Unfortunately, you have tasted that high-T off the hop and it is going to be a much rougher ride if you need to lower your dose.

Would have rather lowered the dose 6 weeks in than waiting 3 months.

You are easily due for labs.

Regarding cosmetic sides (acne, increased body hair, male pattern baldness, water retention, and gyno).

When it comes to acne, BPH, and gynecomastia genetics will play a big role as some men are more prone to this.

Many can struggle with acne (especially body) or notice accelerated hair loss when using therapeutic doses of T, especially when running too high an FT level, but when it comes to getting gynecomastia it is far from common.

 

[62caster]

Too high a dose to start someone on off the hop.

200 mg T/week is overkill for most.

Easily going to have your peak (8-12 hrs post-injection/during the first few days) TT, FT, and estradiol levels sky-high only to be followed by much lower levels come week's end (trough).

Even then many can still hit a high-end trough on such a dose.

Let alone it is a given that your RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit will be driven high.

Looks like you may be heading for that donating blood frequently merry-go-round.

The downfall of injecting once weekly is that there is going to be a significant difference between peak--->trough and blood levels will not be as stable throughout the week which can easily have a negative impact on energy, mood, libido, erectile function, and recovery.

Although some may do well on a once-weekly protocol many tend to inject more frequently (twice weekly, M/W/F, EOD, or daily) which will clip the peak--->trough and blood levels will be more stable throughout the week.

Would be far better of starting low and go slow.

Most men start on 100 mg T/week.

Many would prefer injecting twice-weekly (50 mg T every 3.5 days).

Most can easily achieve a healthy let alone high trough FT level of 100-150 mg/week.

Sure there may be some outliers who need the higher-end dose but it is far from common.

You are 10 weeks in.

Would have been more sensible to have blood work done 6 weeks in as blood levels will have stabilized (4-6 weeks TC/TE).

At least you would have known where your trough TT, FT, and estradiol levels would have sat let alone important blood markers such as RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

Unfortunately, you have tasted that high-T off the hop and it is going to be a much rougher ride if you need to lower your dose.

Would have rather lowered the dose 6 weeks in than waiting 3 months.

You are easily due for labs.

Regarding cosmetic sides (acne, increased body hair, male pattern baldness, water retention, and gyno).

When it comes to acne, BPH, and gynecomastia genetics will play a big role as some men are more prone to this.

Many can struggle with acne (especially body) or notice accelerated hair loss when using therapeutic doses of T, especially when running too high an FT level, but when it comes to getting gynecomastia it is far from common.

Thanks for the well thought out response.

I am having a really difficult time trying to reconcile what I read online vs. what my doctor is doing. Part of me feels like maybe my doc is not great, although I have trusted him in the past, and he is on TRT as well (and has been for 2 years doing great).

Between here and Reddit, 99% of people say “OMG 200MG YOU ARE LITERALLY TAKING A MASSIVE BODY BUILDER DOSE THAT WILL COMPLETELY WRECK YOU”. But why in the world would a 35 year old doc in a well known medical group, with excellent credentials, who is ALSO on TRT prescribe it? And tell me to wait 12 weeks for blood work?

I just can’t wrap my head around this. And it’s terrifying. Is my doc not good? Am
I doing damage? Am I about to grow boobs and shrink my balls into oblivion? Because that’s literally what everybody makes it sound like.

I’m about to completely stop and deal with whatever the consequences are. This is massively stressful and immeasurably frustrating to say the least. All I wanted to do was stop being tired, grumpy, and stop struggling in the gym. This was supposed to help. Instead I’m stuck wondering if I’m ruining my body trying to get any answer that makes sense.

 

[tareload]

I’m about to completely stop and deal with whatever the consequences are.

Overreaction.

Drop to 100 mg/week and labs in 6 weeks. Or 4 in your case. Then go from there.

 

[62caster]

Drop to 100 mg/week and labs in 6 weeks. Or 4 in your case.

And you would cut a dose in half before first labs and without your doctors sign off? Isn’t that pretty significant? Any side effects involved?

 

[tareload]

And you would cut a dose in half before first labs and without your doctors sign off? Isn’t that pretty significant? Any side effects involved?

Me? No. I wouldn't take 200mg/wk for TRT because a Doctor signed off on it. But you are not me and new to the game. You are asking great questions though.

Side effects? Sure, yes always risk reward with meds. 100 mg/week will present less side effects than 200 mg/week. You will also have buried in your lab work the hybrid mix of both doses over 14 weeks.

Live and learn.

If your BP and RHR are OK and you have made it thus far then you could also wait and talk to him. The proper time to discuss all this would have been before starting treatment which required homework. You got options.

Good luck.

No physician prescribing TRT is going to write for 200 mg/wk from the start unless extra muscle benefits are also in the Calculus. This is typically called TOT and youtube is full of it. Take a small bodybuilding dose protocol as run continuously and call it "TRT". There is something for everyone nowadays.

 

[tareload]

I wish I could figure out how to interpret this but I’ve been looking at it for awhile now and can’t figure out where I land.

You won't know until you get the blood work.

 

[tareload]

But why in the world would a 35 year old doc in a well known medical group, with excellent credentials, who is ALSO on TRT prescribe it? And tell me to wait 12 weeks for blood work?

Bring this to your next appt and discuss with your Doc...

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YhaTWIAjlms/Xt6o2GQWAGI/AAAAAAAAATA/gvZqjK7dfIYn-Kw3QarfdLVXKfDVbSRigCK4BGAsYHg/s846/Dunning-Kruger.png

 

[62caster]

Bring this to your next appt and discuss with your Doc...

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YhaTWIAjlms/Xt6o2GQWAGI/AAAAAAAAATA/gvZqjK7dfIYn-Kw3QarfdLVXKfDVbSRigCK4BGAsYHg/s846/Dunning-Kruger.png

Pretty harsh to assume he’s a bad doc

 

[62caster]

Me? No. I wouldn't take 200mg/wk for TRT because a Doctor signed off on it. But you are not me and new to the game. You are asking great questions though.

Side effects? Sure, yes always risk reward with meds. 100 mg/week will present less side effects than 200 mg/week. You will also have buried in your lab work the hybrid mix of both doses over 14 weeks.

Live and learn.

If your BP and RHR are OK and you have made it thus far then you could also wait and talk to him. The proper time to discuss all this would have been before starting treatment which required homework. You got options.

Good luck.

No physician prescribing TRT is going to write for 200 mg/wk unless muscle benefits are also in the Calculus. This is typically called TOT and youtube is full of it. Take a small bodybuilding dose protocol as run continuously and call it "TRT". There is something for everyone nowadays.

So my options are:

1: Self diagnose 200mg as too high, dose 100mg, risking inaccurate or skewed labs in 3 weeks.

2: Stay on 200mg and depending on labs, drop to 100mg.

I guess what I really want to know is, if I’ve been generally fine (no side effects) for 10 weeks, is 3 weeks long enough to develop serious side effects (gyno, etc)?

 

[tareload]

Pretty harsh to assume he’s a bad doc

Who is making that assumption?

 

[Systemlord]

Am I about to grow boobs

Gyno is pretty rare and not a common occurrence around here. I can't remember the last time a member came in here complaining of gyno.

I’m about to completely stop and deal with whatever the consequences are.

That would be a shorter life, 53% increase in prostate cancer risk and numerous health problems as a result of lower than normal testosterone.

I doing damage?

Most things that happen on TRT in the short-term are benign, it would take years of abuse to cause damage.

Your doctor's protocol is a little high for a starting dosage, but far from what I would consider abuse.

 

[tareload]

So my options are:

1: Self diagnose 200mg as too high, dose 100mg, risking inaccurate or skewed labs in 3 weeks.

2: Stay on 200mg and depending on labs, drop to 100mg.

I guess what I really want to know is, if I’ve been generally fine (no side effects) for 10 weeks, is 3 weeks long enough to develop serious side effects (gyno, etc)?

These types of threads are usually a good sign homework was not done at the proper time. Always work with a Doc you trust**.

 

[62caster]

Who is making that assumption?

Well, or that he’s on “Mt. Stupid”

 

[tareload]

Here you go.

What is TRT and What is NOT TRT

What is TRT For the curious minds or folks seeking a better understanding, TRT stands for Testosterone Replacement Therapy. The R stands for replacement, not enhancement, or elevation. Sometimes there seems to be some confusion between the TRT and pharma section. Note, after discussion with...

forums.t-nation.com

Read Ideally before you start.

 

[62caster]

These types of threads are usually a good sign homework was not done at the proper time. Always work with a Doc you trust.

I did preliminary homework on the risks and benefits. I did not do homework on dosages and frequencies, because I assumed like other medications my doctor would be qualified to dose correctly and give proper instructions. It seems TRT is the only medication I’ve run into where there are 101 opinions on how to dose and take it, and everybody seems to think docs get it wrong.

Definitely my fault for not doing homework, but I’m not sure it’s entirely fair since every other medicine I’ve ever taken has been “take X milligrams every X days” and I’ve not blinked an eye at following those instructions.

 

[tareload]

Well, or that he’s on “Mt. Stupid”

Why does this need to be about him? Where is your ownership into what and how much medication is needed for you?