Help fine tuning my protocol

[HealthMan]

I have been on TRT for almost one year now and I am trying to keep my Total Testosterone around 1100-1150 ng/dl. Protocol and bloodwork results below:

Testosterone cypionate 200mg/ml 0.35ml 2x a week. HCG 400IU 2x week

TT 1331 ng/dl
FT 35.6 pg/ml
SHBG 25.3 nmol/L

Testosterone cypionate 200mg/ml 0.30ml 2x week. HCG 300IU 3x week (I was taking tamoxifen 20mg a day for gyno hence higher SHBG)

TT 1298 ng/dl
FT 36.1 pg/ml
SHBG 36.5 nmol/L


Testosterone cypionate 200mg/ml 0.25ml 2x week. HCG 500IU 3x week (stopped tamoxifen hence SHBG back to my normal)

TT 892 ng/dl
FT 30.3 pg/ml
SHBG 21.7 nmol/L

Due to low SHBG do you think I am metabolizing testosterone faster now? and it was slower when my SHBG was higher? I am thinking about moving back to Testosterone cypionate 200mg/ml 0.3ml 2x week maybe 0.28ml and keep HCG same (500IU 3x a week for fertility reasons). Also I am surprised that an increase in HCG dosage didn't really help my Total testosterone.
Reason why I wanna be around 1,100 Total Testosterone is because I feel best at this lvl. Thoughts?

 

[CoastWatcher]

All blood was drawn at trough? What is your sensitive estradiol reading?

 

[HealthMan]

All blood was drawn at trough? What is your sensitive estradiol reading?

All at trough. Estradiol was 35, 11 and 18 respectively (different anastrozole dosages but irrelevant for the bigger picture of testosterone levels)

 

[johndoesmith]

All at trough. Estradiol was 35, 11 and 18 respectively (different anastrozole dosages but irrelevant for the bigger picture of testosterone levels)

Post your labs with ranges.

How long were you at each dose before getting labs?

What is the problem you're trying to fix? I don't see a mention of symptoms or issues, mostly a focus on total testosterone level.

There is minimal information available thus limiting the ability for people to help.

 

[HealthMan]

Post your labs with ranges.

How long were you at each dose before getting labs?

What is the problem you're trying to fix? I don't see a mention of symptoms or issues, mostly a focus on total testosterone level.

There is minimal information available thus limiting the ability for people to help.

Lab ranges:

TT - 348-1197
FT - 8.7-25.1
SHBG - 16.5 - 55.9
Estradio Sensitive - 8 - 35

3 mths between labs. Like I said I feel better when my total testosterone is on the high side but above 1200 I start to get issues with hematocrit. So as you can see I reduced my test cyp dosage 2x to try to get me under TT 1200 but now it is below 900 and I don't have the same energy. Total I have been on TRT for 2 year but cream before. So I have a good feeling about where my TT and estradiol have to be to feel my best. Still trying to get my estradiol between 20-25. and TT 1100-1200.
So all I am asking is your opinion on what test cyp dosage to get me to TT 1100-1200. Looks like from what I have read SHBG can have an effect on how rapidly testosterone is metabolized. I think 0..28ml-0.3ml 2x a week might get me there
If you look at the labresults 2 vs 1 the drop in 0.05ml barely moved my TT while my SHBG was high. and from lab 3 to 2 the drop in 0.05ml had a massive effect on TT

 

[johndoesmith]

Lab ranges:

TT - 348-1197
FT - 8.7-25.1
SHBG - 16.5 - 55.9
Estradio Sensitive - 8 - 35

3 mths between labs. Like I said I feel better when my total testosterone is on the high side but above 1200 I start to get issues with hematocrit. So as you can see I reduced my test cyp dosage 2x to try to get me under TT 1200 but now it is below 900 and I don't have the same energy. Total I have been on TRT for 2 year but cream before. So I have a good feeling about where my TT and estradiol have to be to feel my best. Still trying to get my estradiol between 20-25. and TT 1100-1200.
So all I am asking is your opinion on what test cyp dosage to get me to TT 1100-1200. Looks like from what I have read SHBG can have an effect on how rapidly testosterone is metabolized. I think 0..28ml-0.3ml 2x a week might get me there
If you look at the labresults 2 vs 1 the drop in 0.05ml barely moved my TT while my SHBG was high. and from lab 3 to 2 the drop in 0.05ml had a massive effect on TT

Was there any AI at all?

That's a weird aromatization percentage if not.

SHBG has a large role in testosterone metabolization.

I think 60mg 2x a week will do what you want. 70 to 50mg is a large difference, while you won't be at 1300 on the 60mg 2x a week you will be a bit higher than 900 even with "low" SHBG.

I think you feel bad because E2 is low, 11 and 18 with your total testosterone levels is rather low. Hence needing to be at 1100.

No AI at all?

 

[HealthMan]

Was there any AI at all?

That's a weird aromatization percentage if not.

SHBG has a large role in testosterone metabolization.

I think 60mg 2x a week will do what you want. 70 to 50mg is a large difference, while you won't be at 1300 on the 60mg 2x a week you will be a bit higher than 900 even with "low" SHBG.

I think you feel bad because E2 is low, 11 and 18 with your total testosterone levels is rather low. Hence needing to be at 1100.

No AI at all?

0.25 mg anastrozole E3.5D on bloodwork1
0.25mg anastrozole M W F on bloodwork2 (increased because i had gyno with estradiol above 35. Added tamoxifen 20mg daily)
0.25mg anastrozole E3D on bloodwork3 (reduced anastrozole because estradiol was too low and stopped tamoxifen because gyno was gone)

At 140mg test cyp/week my TT was 1331
At 120mg test cyp/week my TT was 1298
At 100mg test cyp/week my TT was 897

And all this increasing HCG dosage. So the drop in TT from 120mg to 100mg a week of test cyp was much more pronounced than the drop in TT from 140mg to 130mg a week of test cyp and the only difference was lower SHBG (HCG high but looks like HCG doesnt really help my TT). So you think that 120mg test cyp/week with a lower SHBG will not put me back to 1300 right? Meaning SHBG has a impact on TT and not only FT given faster metabolization?
On the estradio front i guess if i keep the same dosage i am in right now and increase my TT that should help bring estradiol up (i always play conservative with estradiol because i had gyno flare up 3 times)

 

[johndoesmith]

0.25 mg anastrozole E3.5D on bloodwork1
0.25mg anastrozole M W F on bloodwork2 (increased because i had gyno with estradiol above 35. Added tamoxifen 20mg daily)
0.25mg anastrozole E3D on bloodwork3 (reduced anastrozole because estradiol was too low and stopped tamoxifen because gyno was gone)

At 140mg test cyp/week my TT was 1331
At 120mg test cyp/week my TT was 1298
At 100mg test cyp/week my TT was 897

And all this increasing HCG dosage. So the drop in TT from 120mg to 100mg a week of test cyp was much more pronounced than the drop in TT from 140mg to 130mg a week of test cyp and the only difference was lower SHBG (HCG high but looks like HCG doesnt really help my TT). So you think that 120mg test cyp/week with a lower SHBG will not put me back to 1300 right? Meaning SHBG has a impact on TT and not only FT given faster metabolization?
On the estradio front i guess if i keep the same dosage i am in right now and increase my TT that should help bring estradiol up (i always play conservative with estradiol because i had gyno flare up 3 times)

You made too many changes at once. Now the data is impossible to analyze because all of these changes have effects, hCG, test, and AI dose changes simultaneously is way too many moving parts.

You'll have to just pick a dose and go for it.

 

[HealthMan]

You made too many changes at once. Now the data is impossible to analyze because all of these changes have effects, hCG, test, and AI dose changes simultaneously is way too many moving parts.

You'll have to just pick a dose and go for it.

Yeah. I will try 0.28ml 2x a week and retest in 4-6 weeks

 

[HealthMan]

Last question. For estradiol levels what number matters: free testosterone or total testosterone? In other words: the amount of testosterone passive of aromatization is only free testosterone or total testosterone levels matter?

 

[johndoesmith]

Last question. For estradiol levels what number matters: free testosterone or total testosterone? In other words: the amount of testosterone passive of aromatization is only free testosterone or total testosterone levels matter?

Can you rephrase that for me? I have no idea what you're asking.

Are you saying for aromatization, does total or free testosterone matter more? In other words, what is available to be aromatized?

If that is the question, free testosterone is aromatized. Total cannot be to my understanding, and I've asked Dr Saya this specific question, search through my threads I've made where I asked something like this.

Edit: Found it https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...ted-to-estradiol&p=53453&viewfull=1#post53453

 

[HealthMan]

Can you rephrase that for me? I have no idea what you're asking.

Are you saying for aromatization, does total or free testosterone matter more? In other words, what is available to be aromatized?

If that is the question, free testosterone is aromatized. Total cannot be to my understanding, and I've asked Dr Saya this specific question, search through my threads I've made where I asked something like this.

Edit: Found it https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...ted-to-estradiol&p=53453&viewfull=1#post53453

Tks! That is exact my question. I was thinking about testosterone bound to albumin like Dr Saya mentioned.

 

[johndoesmith]

Tks! That is exact my question. I was thinking about testosterone bound to albumin like Dr Saya mentioned.

Heh, yeah you'd have to research the binding affinity of testosterone to albumin, and the affinity of aromatase for testosterone. If enzymes work that way, I'm not sure to be honest.

Plus, E2 increases SHBG usually, so higher E2 = higher SHBG = less free test. Less free test = less E2. It's all a complicated bundle of feedback mechanisms, contradictions, and utter confusion. Don't go too deep into researching these things, it's no good for your mental health, or life expectancy.

 

[HealthMan]

Heh, yeah you'd have to research the binding affinity of testosterone to albumin, and the affinity of aromatase for testosterone. If enzymes work that way, I'm not sure to be honest.

Plus, E2 increases SHBG usually, so higher E2 = higher SHBG = less free test. Less free test = less E2. It's all a complicated bundle of feedback mechanisms, contradictions, and utter confusion. Don't go too deep into researching these things, it's no good for your mental health, or life expectancy.

Hahahaha! It is just the way i am i guess i will increase test cyp dosage from 100mg/week to 112mg/week and keep anastrozole at 0.25mg E3D and retest in 4-6 weeks. I will also have to check sperm count soon and if HCG at 500IU 3x a week is not working i will probably reduce back to 300IU 3x a week and when i decide to have a baby i either stop TRT and go the clomid route or increase HCG and add HMG.
I had some weird results from HCG regarding fertility... at 400IU 2x week i went from zero to a few million. Then moved to 300IU 3x week and back to zero... total weekly dosage up and sperm count down.

Cant wait to have everything fine tuned!

Thanks for the time to discuss this! Much appreciated

 

[johndoesmith]

Hahahaha! It is just the way i am i guess i will increase test cyp dosage from 100mg/week to 112mg/week and keep anastrozole at 0.25mg E3D and retest in 4-6 weeks. I will also have to check sperm count soon and if HCG at 500IU 3x a week is not working i will probably reduce back to 300IU 3x a week and when i decide to have a baby i either stop TRT and go the clomid route or increase HCG and add HMG.
I had some weird results from HCG regarding fertility... at 400IU 2x week i went from zero to a few million. Then moved to 300IU 3x week and back to zero... total weekly dosage up and sperm count down.

Cant wait to have everything fine tuned!

Thanks for the time to discuss this! Much appreciated

Heh, I was giving advice from my experience, the more research I do the more confused I get.

hCG dose and fertility is interesting, maybe due to the pharmacokinetics of hCG? As in, peak levels are lower from the 300 3x vs 400 2x possibly could be causing a problem.

E2 is important for spermatogenesis.

I linked a research article on hCG and fertility while on TRT.

 

[HealthMan]

Heh, I was giving advice from my experience, the more research I do the more confused I get.

hCG dose and fertility is interesting, maybe due to the pharmacokinetics of hCG? As in, peak levels are lower from the 300 3x vs 400 2x possibly could be causing a problem.

E2 is important for spermatogenesis.

I linked a research article on hCG and fertility while on TRT.

I totally agree with you. Looking at Dr saya study on HCG dosage it is clear that a higher dosage on top of yielding a higher blood concentration it stays longer in the body. So for sperm production not only the plasma concentration should be important but also the continuous estimulation of the testes. So in a couple of months i will have another sperm analysis done and will post the results (hopefully positive results!). I have read about estradiol levels and fertility as well. Too little and too much are both bad apparently. Oddly enough my estradiol before TRT was undetectable to 7 tops. And my sperm count was over 100MM. Go figure