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tareload
Guest
You're welcome. Have a great evening and best wishes on your journey.
200 mg weekly is really too high a dose to start.
These sort of dosage were prescribed years ago and are the result of bad and lack of information that most doctors even today are not aware of.
Research on forums like this will soon point you in the right direction or alternatively find a reputable Hormone therapy centre such as the site sponsor here for modern protocols.
Always remember it's your health we are talking about not your Doctors and you need know by doing due diligence what's best and safest for you, there really is a lot of bad protocols dispensed by GP's who don't know any better.
These sort of dosage were prescribed years ago and are the result of bad and lack of information that most doctors even today are not aware of.
Research on forums like this will soon point you in the right direction or alternatively find a reputable Hormone therapy centre such as the site sponsor here for modern protocols.
Always remember it's your health we are talking about not your Doctors and you need know by doing due diligence what's best and safest for you, there really is a lot of bad protocols dispensed by GP's who don't know any better.
I guess I’m on Mt Stupid then? Yes, I assumed a doctor could dose correctly. I’ve always assumed that with medication I’ve been prescribed. I’m sure I should push back on every medication I’ve been given, but frankly I assume I’m not an expert in medicine and default to believing a doctor.
I guess this just boggles my mind. I’m sure I’m naive to think a doctor would know how to dose medication properly. So far literally everybody says 200mg is too much. I…. Just don’t get it. I really don’t. Why would he do this? Is there nothing out there at all that says 200mg is an OK dose? Did he just pull it out of his butt?
Systemlord
Member
The dosing recommendations for TRT varies wildly, 200-400 mg once a month, every 200 mg every 2 weeks, 75-100 mg weekly.
TRT is a new field of medicine for which is not taught in traditional medical schools. There is no specialty doctor for TRT, some GPs do it, some endo's and some urologists.
Let's say a doctor goes to the appropriate medical school to learn about hormones, prescribing it is a whole other world and most doctors prescribe based on what the manufacturer of the drug is suggesting, only with TRT some of the suggestions are out there.
The Endocrine Society guidelines suggest 75-100 mg weekly.
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Hyrulewarrior1978
Active Member
Is your doctor an MD, DO, or physician assistant? Also never completely trust your doctor, and do your own research! I’ve been burned before so yes I can say that.
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tareload
Guest
Slope to enlightenment?
You may end up at the 2.5 percentile on graph I first shared. I do not know. That graph shows why starting a guy on 200 mg/week TC for TRT just ain't a good practice unless he wants a dose per week that was common as beginner bodybuilding dose of test years ago. Of course with inflation and the internet now that is 500 mg/wk for the poor noob.
You have to understand something about the human body's dose response to injectable TC/TE. Glad you are surveying the landscape.
If you want more than TRT, great. However, my takeaway from above is you wanted to start with physiologically relevant TRT protocol.
Read the What is TRT thread if you want more knowledge. Many hours of my valuable time to you for free (not really, nothing is free but you get the idea).
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T
tareload
Guest
Head over to YouTube and look up Danny Bossa and his Hormone Optimization buddies. Or see my discussion with him in the TRT thread at TNation. Over there in Facebook/Youtube land it is like Lake Wobegon...every man is a 8 to 16 sigma man with even the least manly dudes sporting >=30 ng/dl Free T levels at trough. In their wonderful world 70 mg/week will castrate a poor chap. There is also Worldlink Medical Friends that teach jacking up dudes on T and calling it TRT. How much do you really want to know?
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tareload
Guest
And how did you get here? He has been on this test cyp regimen for 10 weeks.
tropicaldaze1950
Well-Known Member
You know of @highpull on t-nation. He has credibility b/c he's a physician on TRT, as well as prescribing. He's been on 200 mg once a week for a few years and doing fine. Many of his patients are taking between 150 and 200 mg, once a week, doing fine. He's a practical, pragmatic, transparent physician. Wish he was on here, too, to share his experience.
For some men 200 mg, regardless of injection frequency is too much but there's no biblical warning, 'Thou shall NEVER prescribe 200 mg'. Flashing red lights and and the piercing sound of a klaxon seem to be go off when someone posts that they were prescribed that dose, particularly if that man is new to TRT. Agree that it's better to start at 100 mg and titrate up if conditions warrant. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it's an opinion, not a fact.
Thanks. I did read it and appreciate you putting it together. Not trying to be obtuse or a jerk, I’m just dumbfounded by the fact that all I wanted was some relief from my low-T symptoms, and now I’m on a body builders dose. Not what I wanted. I didn’t want to have to be scared of side effects, growing boobs, etc. Just wanted some aspect of my life back.
Now I’m here stuck trying to figure out if I wait it out for a few more weeks before making a change, or just cut my dose in half on Monday and see what happens. Something I wish I, as a non-medical provider, did not have to choose.
Hyrulewarrior1978
Active Member
Yea as mentioned before make sure you get your facts from credible sources. There’s a ton of shit out there online. Real, credible doctors don’t need a YouTube channel, and they usually don’t post on forums like these.
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tareload
Guest
PHYSIOLOGICAL replacement ----> TRT: Thou shall not start at 200 mg/week with absolutely no idea the patient's clearance or distribution volume.
Only in cash pay / anti-aging [sic] clinics is this a thing.
Never been to an in network PCP/provider where he/she/they/it says "well shit Bob, let's start you off at 200 mg/week TC and see how you like that." No that would be dumb as hell and state medical board would eventually nail to cross.
Agree with your comment on 100 mg/wk to start. Minimum effective dose, etc.
Enjoy this one as well:
TRT: Most Probable Weekly Dose Range for Treating Male Hypogonadism
Unburied this from another thread in case guys were curious about TRT dosing in the world of hypogonadism. Google xyosted, a vastly overpriced** testosterone enanthate (TE) sub-Q delivery system designed for mass in-network medical provider use to treat hypogonadism. Then look at the three...
forums.t-nation.com
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Systemlord
Member
Dr Abraham Morgenthaler, a Urology professor at Harvard, one of the foremost experts in testosterone has a YouTube channel.
T
tareload
Guest
One more for you...
forums.t-nation.com
Enjoy!!
10mg of Test a Day
For those here who think @dbossa is the only authority on T, there is a forum with a famous bodybuilder who recommends 5-10mg(wow, where have I heard of 70mg a week before?) of T a day. For those following the recent thread dust-up on TRT vs. TOT further confirmation that you don’t need get...
forums.t-nation.com
Enjoy!!
tropicaldaze1950
Well-Known Member
Again, I refer to 'a real and credible doctor' on t-nation. @readalot and @Systemlord can attest to that.
tropicaldaze1950
Well-Known Member
@highpull, again. Maybe he doesn't start patients at 200 mg/weekly but he states that many are up at 150 to 200 mg/weekly injection.PHYSIOLOGICAL replacement ----> TRT: Thou shall not start at 200 mg/week with absolutely no idea the patient's clearance or distribution volume.
Only in cash pay / anti-aging [sic] clinics is this a thing.
Never been to an in network PCP/provider where he/she/they/it says "well shit Bob, let's start you off at 200 mg/week TC and see how you like that." No that would be dumb as hell and state medical board would eventually nail to cross.
Agree with your comment on 100 mg/wk to start. Minimum effective dose, etc.
Enjoy this one as well:
TRT: Most Probable Weekly Dose Range for Treating Male Hypogonadism
Unburied this from another thread in case guys were curious about TRT dosing in the world of hypogonadism. Google xyosted, a vastly overpriced** testosterone enanthate (TE) sub-Q delivery system designed for mass in-network medical provider use to treat hypogonadism. Then look at the three...
T
tareload
Guest
I referred him to 4 threads where highpull plays a part in the discussion. MY understanding is highpull is an NP providing cash pay testosterone therapy. As shown above, i used his practice data as part of the plots I have made. A discussion on testosterone therapy philosophy between he and I is found in the What is TRT thread.
T
tareload
Guest
Correct on your second part. I have also done another plot here:
Favorite TRT Provider? In Detail, Why?
Summary of information from director of “popular/leading” TRT/TOT clinic. This ellipse covers vast majority of the patients (>10,000 patients). Median dosing is 140 mg/week (range is 100 to 180 mg/week for most). You can see what that means in terms of mean TT levels (about half in range and...
forums.t-nation.com
This is large patient pool from cash pay clinic. Guys have lots of options.
Long story short is pay to play and cash let's you run higher and providers keeps the insurance and state medical boards off their backs.
No longer able to post pictures (for weeks now @Nelson Vergel). Perhaps a glitch to fix?
Damn! You got your money's worth @62caster . Thank @Nelson Vergel , a truly unselfish human being.
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