Optimizing thyroid -- Resting Pulse? How to gauge for athlete?

[MarkLA]

I'm almost 50 now and have been training - running, weight lifting for 25 years. I'm fit, probably 12% BF.

I don't run long distances. I do a 20 minute trail run once per week and a few hill sprints at max effort on another day.

I remember when I was in my 30s that my resting pulse would be in the 30s and 40s and I took that to be that I was very fit. Literature says a low resting heart rate is normal for an "endurance" athlete.

Untreated, my Thryoid has been low -- FT3 (bottom of range), FT4 (a little below bottom range), TSH a little high 2.5 - 3.something for a few years. My body temp could be as low as 96*. I find the body temp is partly dependent on weather temperature so I would take more in winter and less (or none) in summer.

I have Thryoid drugs prescribed by my doc but I basically gauge how much to take by how I feel (mood, temperature). I have access to NT, Levothryoxine and Cytomel.

Taking a little, i.e. 1/2 gr NT, will normalize my body temp (afternoon 98.something) and I feel pretty good. My FT4 will get up into the bottom of the range and my T3 edges up a little too.

My question is pulse rate. I'm now 60 - 70ish.

I found articles on the internet (yeah, I know) saying that you want your resting heart rate to be 70ish but those articles are not concerned with athletes.

So the question is for athletes who are not marathoners, 100 mile cyclists, but who are fit, what should the heart rate be. Does my 60-70 mean that I'm taking a little more thyroid than what's needed.

I'd appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks!

 

[Vince Carter]

We usually get the talk about the point that you can feel wired and a little too energized as the point being of too much. I haven't seen it discussed here to base it on resting HR.

 

[Systemlord]

My father was a runner his entire life and is now 87 and needed a pacemaker because all that running lowered his heart rates and had been getting a little too low later in life. My fathers heart rates had been below 50 and after getting it to a steady low 70's his wife noticed a difference when he walked out of the procedure.

He seems more alert.

 

[LakeGuy81]

Did you see any changes in resting HR when you began TRT? I'm 6'1" and 220 lbs, so about 28% bf. I run about 25-30 miles per month, but my resting HR is in the 48-52 range most days. My thyroid lab numbers were OK with Defy recently, and I'm about to start TRT, but I don't think my resting HR needs to go any lower. I feel like I have slow metabolism, sluggishness, low appetite, and struggle to lose weight, etc and I'm hoping the T will help.

 

[Blackhawk]

My thyroid lab numbers were OK with Defy recently

I feel like I have slow metabolism, sluggishness, low appetite, and struggle to lose weight, etc and I'm hoping the T will help.

Those two things don't quite fit together, i.e. those symptoms are classic hypothyroid.

Please post your actual Thyroid numbers.

 

[LakeGuy81]

Those two things don't quite fit together, i.e. those symptoms are classic hypothyroid.

Please post your actual Thyroid numbers.

TSH: 2.65 (.450-4.5)
T3 (Free): 3.8 (2.0-4.4)
T4 (Free): 1.58 (.82-1.77)
Reverse T3: 19.6 (9.2-24.1)
Thyroglobulin Antibody: 17.3 (0.9)
TPO Antibody: 75 (0-34)

I know the antibodies indicate Hashi's, but Defy is saying I don't need thyroid meds (yet) based off my other numbers. But I agree, I do have many low thyroid symptoms, and I'm not sure if doing TRT without addressing the thyroid at all is correct?

 

[DragonBits]

My resting hr is 58-62, according to my fitbit watch.

I don't do much running, biking 12 miles but not lately, The fitbit says I do between 3-7 miles a day.

Guessing I am at 20% BF.

 

[Vince]

I have hypothyroidism, my main concern is keeping good free T3 levels and low reverse T3. There's so many benefits of having good free T3 levels.

 

[MarkLA]

Did you see any changes in resting HR when you began TRT? I'm 6'1" and 220 lbs, so about 28% bf. I run about 25-30 miles per month, but my resting HR is in the 48-52 range most days. My thyroid lab numbers were OK with Defy recently, and I'm about to start TRT, but I don't think my resting HR needs to go any lower. I feel like I have slow metabolism, sluggishness, low appetite, and struggle to lose weight, etc and I'm hoping the T will help.

Hey LakeGuy81, you hijacked my thread! No worries, seriously. But still might be better to create your own thread to track your progress.

I don't think Testosterone will effect resting heart rate.

2.65 TSH could be sub-clinical hypothyroid. I don't know about hashimotos and the antibodies. Defy is very good and should be good at guiding you.

As an aside, but maybe related to thryoid, IMO you should drop some fat and get down to 15%. There's other forums here which cover this exhaustively and you should read those and post there, but generally:

Lift weights.
Think about running less. 1 mile/day is burning muscle as well as fat. You need muscle to burn fat when you're not exercising.
TRT will help some with building muscle.
Look at diet.
I try to keep my body temp 98.something which for me means taking thyroid stuff. Your situation is different and I'd trust defy.

 

[Vtail]

Did you see any changes in resting HR when you began TRT? I'm 6'1" and 220 lbs, so about 28% bf. I run about 25-30 miles per month, but my resting HR is in the 48-52 range most days. My thyroid lab numbers were OK with Defy recently, and I'm about to start TRT, but I don't think my resting HR needs to go any lower. I feel like I have slow metabolism, sluggishness, low appetite, and struggle to lose weight, etc and I'm hoping the T will help.

Lakeguy - Your stats are similar to mine. I started TRT last December. Prior to that my running was limited to how my lower legs felt. I was able to run 2-3 miles before my legs ached so much that I had to stop (shin splint type pain). Since TRT the leg pains are gone any my running is now limited by my cardio and a typical run for me is now 3-5 miles (or more on a good day). I also mix in calisthenics and weight machines 2 - 3 times a week (I don't do heavy weights anymore). TRT did not affect my heartrate - which was always in your range.

However, about 4 months ago I started taking T3 (up to 40 mcg now) because my RT3 was 23 [9 - 24] and FT3 was 3.2 [2 - 4.4]. I also had symptoms of hypothyroid, including difficulty losing weight, brain fog, etc . . . same as you describe. Almost immediately after starting the T3, my brain fog lifted and I had more energy later into the day. Within the last month or so the weight is coming off so fast that I have to make sure I eat enough or I will find I dropped another pound or two (a very nice problem to have for someone that could easily gain 5 pounds in one weekend). With the T3 supplementation my resting heartrate has come up into the high 50's.

In the past when I would go hard core to lose 10 or 20 pounds, people would tell me that I look gaunt, drawn, etc. However this time around the fat is coming off the middle. My waist line is down at least 2 inches. The only real problem I have now is sleeping, but I was never a good sleeper.

While your thyroid numbers may be "okay", they do not appear optimized. You may want to discuss this with your doc - most folks here agree that the RT3 should be in the single digits to feel as good as possible when it comes to the thyroid.

 

[MarkLA]

While your thyroid numbers may be "okay", they do not appear optimized. You may want to discuss this with your doc - most folks here agree that the RT3 should be in the single digits to feel as good as possible when it comes to the thyroid.

I just got some thyroid labs. I know normal ranges are not to be relied upon, but the range shows 9.2-24.1 so I'm not sure if single digits should really be the goal.

By that logic, unless it's 9, you'd need to be below range to be in single digits. My latest labs were 12.5

 

[LakeGuy81]

Lakeguy - Your stats are similar to mine. I started TRT last December. Prior to that my running was limited to how my lower legs felt. I was able to run 2-3 miles before my legs ached so much that I had to stop (shin splint type pain). Since TRT the leg pains are gone any my running is now limited by my cardio and a typical run for me is now 3-5 miles (or more on a good day). I also mix in calisthenics and weight machines 2 - 3 times a week (I don't do heavy weights anymore). TRT did not affect my heartrate - which was always in your range.

However, about 4 months ago I started taking T3 (up to 40 mcg now) because my RT3 was 23 [9 - 24] and FT3 was 3.2 [2 - 4.4]. I also had symptoms of hypothyroid, including difficulty losing weight, brain fog, etc . . . same as you describe. Almost immediately after starting the T3, my brain fog lifted and I had more energy later into the day. Within the last month or so the weight is coming off so fast that I have to make sure I eat enough or I will find I dropped another pound or two (a very nice problem to have for someone that could easily gain 5 pounds in one weekend). With the T3 supplementation my resting heartrate has come up into the high 50's.

In the past when I would go hard core to lose 10 or 20 pounds, people would tell me that I look gaunt, drawn, etc. However this time around the fat is coming off the middle. My waist line is down at least 2 inches. The only real problem I have now is sleeping, but I was never a good sleeper.

While your thyroid numbers may be "okay", they do not appear optimized. You may want to discuss this with your doc - most folks here agree that the RT3 should be in the single digits to feel as good as possible when it comes to the thyroid.

Great response, thanks for that! Can you tell me if your GP or an endo gave you the T3? So taking T3 will drop your Reverse T3 numbers and clear up some of the hypo thyroid symptoms? Lastly, can you tell me if you started TRT first and then added the T3 afterwards? I'm kind of at a point where I'm debating on whether to start T or push for thyroid meds first. I probably need both though, I don't think my thyroid #'s are bad enough to explain my T being so low....

 

[LakeGuy81]

The only real problem I have now is sleeping, but I was never a good sleeper.
\

Have you gotten a sleep study yet? I had one done 3-4 weeks ago because I had very loud snoring. Sure enough, I was diagnosed with an AHI of 16.3 and moderate sleep apnea. I've now been on CPAP a couple weeks and feel a little more rested, you may want to look into a sleep study.

 

[Vtail]

Great response, thanks for that! Can you tell me if your GP or an endo gave you the T3? So taking T3 will drop your Reverse T3 numbers and clear up some of the hypo thyroid symptoms? Lastly, can you tell me if you started TRT first and then added the T3 afterwards? I'm kind of at a point where I'm debating on whether to start T or push for thyroid meds first. I probably need both though, I don't think my thyroid #'s are bad enough to explain my T being so low....

The T3 was prescribed by my current doctor. Started at 10 mcg, then increased by 10 mcg every 2 weeks until I got to 40 mcg. I was told to stop increasing if I felt any hyper symptoms, which I did not. I recently backed off to 35 mcg because that's one of the doses available in the extended release version and allows me to keep things simple.

I felt better almost immediately after starting on the T3. The mind fog lifted and hasn't come back yet (Started on T3 in May). I started T-Cyp last December. In hindsight, I would have dealt with my thyroid issue first before starting on Testosterone. But at the time I didn't know I had a thyroid issue. In the world of my first doctor an RT3 value of 23+ was ok because it was within the lab range.

It was reading this forum that prompted me to find another doc that better understood the thyroid.

I am thinking about a sleep study - thanks. A good friend of mine just went for one and like you is now using a CPAP and says he's sleeping better.

 

[LakeGuy81]

It was reading this forum that prompted me to find another doc that better understood the thyroid.

.

Can I ask if this is your general practitioner or an endocronologist who helped dial in your thyroid? I've looked into some functional medicine doctors in my area but they can't prescribe "meds" and can only run tests and recommend diet changes, etc. Just looking for what direction to take when/if I start looking into the thyroid a bit more. I appreciate you sharing info on your journey.

 

[Vtail]

Can I ask if this is your general practitioner or an endocronologist who helped dial in your thyroid? I've looked into some functional medicine doctors in my area but they can't prescribe "meds" and can only run tests and recommend diet changes, etc. Just looking for what direction to take when/if I start looking into the thyroid a bit more. I appreciate you sharing info on your journey.

My primary care doc refused to prescribe Testosterone because she said "it leads to cardiac problems" - this was in spite of my bloodwork showing clinically low Testosterone on the LabCorp range. So I found an endo local to me who is fairly well known for TRT. After a few months of feeling okay but not great on TRT (was still experiencing mind fog and no energy by the early afternoon), I asked the endo if maybe my thyroid could be the issue. He ran a blood test and determined that my lab values were "within range". After reading through all the relevant posts on this forum, I learned that the lab values for the thyroid need interpretation, so I went to Defy for the management of both my Testosterone and thyroid meds.