New to T/HCG - Some Questions

[bobo12345]

Hey guys, I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this but I thought I'd try to get some feedback on my situation. I've experimented some form of hormone replacement in the past:

1. Pellets - expensive and the Dr. seemed to be about $$$/Too difficult to keep up with
2. Clomid - higher T numbers but no change in quality of life. Tried for about a year
3. HCG - again, high T numbers but no improvements in mood/energy. Tried for about a year

So now I'm seeing a well known Dr. in the area. He has me on T (.3mL twice a week) and HCG (.375mL twice a week).

Here's the issue, I've noticed a huge increase in energy. I have the urge to workout everyday and I've not had fast food (save for a grilled chicken sandwich when I'm traveling) in weeks. Due to my weight, 255/38% bf, I imagined the increase in energy + eating MUCH cleaner +working out would show some improvements pretty quickly. But nothing. Not to mention I seem to be somewhat depressed. I feel almost like a zombie. No big highs and not huge lows, just feel like I'm "existing". I feel like if the weight showed some improvement it could help spark a better mood/outlook but nothing so far.

I used .5mg anastrazole about 36hrs or so post injections. These labs were taken before my Friday shots. I was trying to figure out if my anastrazole dosing would cause any issues. Looks like it might be.

T: 478 ng/DL Range: 264-916
Free T: 15.3 pg/mL Range: 8.7-25.1
E: 9.7 pg/mL Range: 7.6-42.6
SHBG: 14.9 nmol/L Range: 16.5-55.9


Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

[Sean Mosher]

Your dose definitely needs adjustment (upward, maybe ask doc about 70-75 mg twice a week as opposed to 60mg).
There's room for improvement in Free T for sure as well as Total T.
And your estradiol is in the tank (that needs to be measured with the Liquid C test as well LCMS).
You're a very low SHBG guy so at a minimum you need twice a week injections if not more frequently (I'm personally doing MWF and it's working well).
Hopefully others will chime in as well.

 

[Vince]

Sean right on with his answer. Doesn't sound like your doctors much of an expert.

 

[bobo12345]

Thanks guys. I'll send the labwork to my dr. and up my dosage. What T level should I be expecting at the 3.5D mark just before the next shot? Or is the higher/more frequent dose a way to address the SHBG?

Any thoughts on if the low SHBG and low E are causing any of the mood/weight issues?

 

[Vince]

Most men would low shbg struggle with testosterone. It seems like they usually do best with frequent injections, some even inject daily. When you tank your estradiol levels, you will feel it physically and mentally.

 

[Vince Carter]

Compared to his SHBG his Estrogen is not too low, you guys need to move off from that line of thinking and remember he has Free Estrogen moving about, and for him and his SHBG of 14, 9 would not be low. THough the wrong test was used a correct test value of 9 would not be low, for this guy.

Your Cyp dose needs to target the Free T number, forget about Total Test, and you need to incorporate an added test "Estradiol, Free" to your routine testing.

 

[Vince Carter]

Compared to his SHBG his Estrogen is not too low, you guys need to move off from that line of thinking and remember he has Free Estrogen moving about, much more than other guys, and for him and his SHBG of 14, 9 would not be low. Though the wrong test was used a correct test value of 9 would not be low, for this guy.

Your Cyp dose needs to target the Free T number, forget about Total Test, and you need to incorporate an added test "Estradiol, Free" to your routine testing.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Echo Vince regarding dosing frequency. Based on your SHBG of 15 daily injections or at least QOD (Every other day) even at your current weekly total dose may be appropriate, and help to keep your troughs up higher/better steady state. This is assuming the labs you are showing were drawn at trough 3.5 days post injection right before next dose.

 

[bobo12345]

Most men would low shbg struggle with testosterone. It seems like they usually do best with frequent injections, some even inject daily. When you tank your estradiol levels, you will feel it physically and mentally.

That's my understanding as well. My fear has always been gyno as I'm overweight and some of the fat is in my chest and the last thing I want is that area getting bigger.

Compared to his SHBG his Estrogen is not too low, you guys need to move off from that line of thinking and remember he has Free Estrogen moving about, and for him and his SHBG of 14, 9 would not be low. THough the wrong test was used a correct test value of 9 would not be low, for this guy.

Your Cyp dose needs to target the Free T number, forget about Total Test, and you need to incorporate an added test "Estradiol, Free" to your routine testing.

Is this the same as the E sensitive test?

Echo Vince regarding dosing frequency. Based on your SHBG of 15 daily injections or at least QOD (Every other day) even at your current weekly total dose may be appropriate, and help to keep your troughs up higher/better steady state. This is assuming the labs you are showing were drawn at trough 3.5 days post injection right before next dose.

That's correct. I try to be as close to 3.5 days as possible but the week of this labwork the duration between the lab work and last injection was probably 3.5 days + 6hrs.

 

[Vince]

That's my understanding as well. My fear has always been gyno as I'm overweight and some of the fat is in my chest and the last thing I want is that area getting bigger.



Is this the same as the E sensitive test?



That's correct. I try to be as close to 3.5 days as possible but the week of this labwork the duration between the lab work and last injection was probably 3.5 days + 6hrs.

You can't get much closer than that, I definitely wouldn't be concerned about the extra 6 hours.

 

[bobo12345]

A few quick observations. I don't know if I'm being paranoid but I figured I'd mention this. I have always had fine, thin hair. No issues in terms of balding only an ever so light receding hairline where I part my hair which I attributed to age, nothing abnormal and was never a concern for me. While on TRT it seems it feels thinner and isn't growing as fast as it did just a few weeks ago.

Could the low SHBG be contributing to this? I'm trying to get a better understanding of SHBG (it's a wild animal) and hope controlling that could alleviate some of my issues.

I started a more frequent dose. Instead of E3.5D, I moved to around 56hrs which gives me an even spacing of three times a week. I might move to EOD if this doesn't help. One thing I did notice, and I don't know what to attribute this to, but I injected last night around 8pm and around 12:30am I was still awake and had an erection that I've only had while taking Cialis. Usually those are morning events, if they even occur. I didn't take any supplements out of the ordinary; zinc, vit-D, etc.

Is there any chance the "extra" injection caused this?

 

[bobo12345]

So I shifting to EOD injections and it seems my energy level was cut in half. The E3D injections, for whatever reason, caused me to basically be hyper all day and want to workout. The past week or so I've felt like taking a nap mid afternoon. Surely the different injection schedule wouldn't cause that, would it?

 

[bobo12345]

Got new labs (taken at trough) after switching to EOD injections to combat the SHBG issues. Boy this is frustrating. The thyroid panel was an add-on just to see if that was working properly because I'm in a bad funk right now. I have my follow-up appt with my Dr. on Thursday so I'm hoping he's got some ideas.

 

[Sean Mosher]

What's your current EOD dosing/protocol?
With a free of 16.1 and a total of 417 there's still plenty of room for the dose to move upward.
I don't see how any of your symptoms could possibly be resolved yet either.

 

[bobo12345]

What's your current EOD dosing/protocol?
With a free of 16.1 and a total of 417 there's still plenty of room for the dose to move upward.
I don't see how any of your symptoms could possibly be resolved yet either.

My weekly dose is 120mg (.6ml) T and 1500IU (.75ml) of HCG. When doing EOD I was at about 425iu of HCG (.21ml) and 34mg of T (.17ml).

I noticed almost immediately the EOD dose lowered my energy levels substantially. But the strange part is my T, E2, and SHBG levels were the same when doing the original E3.5D and my energy was through the roof during that time.

 

[RLW]

I'm no expert, but if you are still taking the Anastrazole, you should stop. And then more Testoterone as 417 is not going to get it done for most guys.