my ~6 months post trt labs (being off trt)

[lowe2sucks]

Hello everybody
I promised to post my labwork off trt so finally got them done

I came off with no pct just cold turkey.
my last labs on trt (~1 year ago) when I was on 2 clicks on t gel 20% were
test total 401
free 9.1
e2 sensitive 7.9
so basically labs are pretty much same off trt but e2 is slightly higher which is good because 7.9 is way too low

 

[sh1973]

How are you feeling?

 

[lowe2sucks]

like crap
but I started to feel like crap when lowered my dose from 160mg weekly and added preg dhea so I can't say that it's much of a difference beetween my last year on trt and now

 

[MarkM]

Have you tried HCG mono-therapy at all?

 

[lowe2sucks]

Have you tried HCG mono-therapy at all?

never tried it
i was on t cyp for past 4-5 years and this is my first 6 months off exogenous testosterone
i see by how my lh and fsh rose that my pituatiry is working I think it's more time needed for higher T levels in my case and also I have a bit more room for LH to go up so there is also that. I will do another set of labs in 1 year
also I know hcg does shut you down and I just came off of shutdown as of now so it probably would be smarter to do SERM in my case but I am scared to make myself worse honestly

 

[lowe2sucks]

What’s the logic behind not trying another trt protocol? If you feel like shit with these levels the 3x rule generally applies. You need to triple levels to get full therapeutic benefits. Probably should have checked prolactin as well.

im quite concerned about trt shutting down other parts of male endocrine system (dhea, pregnenolone, lh and gnrh

GnRH production/release is one of the few confirmed examples of behavior influencing hormones, rather than the other way around.[citation needed] Cichlid fish that become socially dominant in turn experience an upregulation of GnRH secretion whereas cichlid fish that are socially subordinate have a down regulation of GnRH secretion.[14] Besides secretion, the social environment as well as their behavior affects the size of GnRH neurons. Specifically, males that are more territorial have larger GnRH neurons than males that are less territorial. Differences are also seen in females, with brooding females having smaller GnRH neurons than either spawning or control females.[15] These examples suggest that GnRH is a socially regulated hormone.

which have effects even on behaviour patterns from what I've read and hcg even though is replica of lh isn't quite same as natural lh)
also because im caucasian male this had me quite concerned https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...-brain-health-in-caucasian-men-254391011.html
and to be honest most days on trt I had symptoms of low testosterone despite good numbers so it wasn't quite a fix I think being shutdown affects some individuals in negative way and give them low T symptoms/sexual issues sometimes despite having very good numbers on paper

 

[sh1973]

There's a reason more than half the men that start TRT stop. I does not provide subjective benefit for a good number of men including myself. I've been at this 8 years and 9 months now, so I feel I have the experience and knowledge to state this opinion. TRT for me was the biggest mistake of my life for a litany of reasons. I would never, ever advise anyone to start TRT unless they had their testicles removed or something equally as drastic. TRT starts causing real problems for a lot of guys including myself after the 4-6 year mark and no amount of tinkering can overcome the side effects. Hormones should not be messed with unless there's absolutely no alternative.

 

[sh1973]

I really could care less what you think about my reply honestly. If the truth offends you then so be it. Look around all these forums, they're littered with guys having problems with TRT. I'm not condemning anyone that's doing good on TRT, but it does not work for everyone, thats a fact.

 

[sh1973]

Also no person knows what the implications of shutting these hormones off long term are and this is also a fact. We can agree to disagree.

 

[S1W]

TRT for me was the biggest mistake of my life for a litany of reasons. I would never, ever advise anyone to start TRT unless they had their testicles removed or something equally as drastic. TRT starts causing real problems for a lot of guys including myself after the 4-6 year mark and no amount of tinkering can overcome the side effects. Hormones should not be messed with unless there's absolutely no alternative.

sh1973,

If I recall, not too long ago you posted something about finally finding success with TRT on a lower dose, 1x week injection protocol. Did that not pan out for you?

Sorry to hear about your continued frustrations.

 

[MarkM]

Without question, TRT is a difficult path for some people. For various reasons, it seems to not work for everyone. It's complicated when dealing with hormones and it is a balancing act that is hard for some to get dialed in where they feel appreciatively better than prior to TRT.

The forums are full of people looking for help because they are struggling. Many times they struggle because of a poorly defined protocol established by a doctor that is uninformed and other times it is just trying to find that perfect balance for their bodies chemistry. These forums are designed to try and offer assistance to those trying to find that balance by have discussion with others that have experienced the same issues. That is why you find forums like this full of those still trying to find their way. There are not very many people on these forums that are on TRT and doing great. They simply have no need to be on such a forum.

I believe many that just stop TRT within months to a year of starting TRT do so because their doctor prescribed an unrealistic dose of testosterone, a large dose of an AI, and an injection protocol that did not match up with their SHBG levels than in many cases was not even tested.

We must remember that the people on the forums represent only a small fraction of the total men on testosterone replacement therapy. There are likely millions of men on TRT that are doing just great.

I am one of those that is doing great and there probably aren't too many like me on the forum. I've now been on TRT for over 13 years in one form or another. Once getting on TRT I've never had an issue with any that many on this forum face. I stumbled across this forum and thought it was interesting and eventually joined. As I read others issues I feel fortunate that I don't have to deal with or face the problems that others on the forum face. But I stick around and learn in case maybe one day I do experience those issues as I age. But so far, 13 years on TRT with positive results.

Regarding your statement of "Also no person knows what the implications of shutting these hormones off long term are and this is also a fact." .........I don't know. My Total T was 64 and my Free T was only 2 when I started TRT. Seems to me they were already basically shut down and the typical person that gets on TRT should be seriously deficient in their androgen hormones. We know what the long term effects of low T are and how dangerous that is for your health. For me, not being on TRT and to continue living the way I felt prior to TRT just wasn't an option.

So yes, there is a "agree to disagree" element. TRT works for some and doesn't for others. Some give up too early and others, for some reason, it just doesn't help. I don't know the statistics but I'd have to believe the population that have success with TRT is much greater than the population that doesn't.

 

[sh1973]

Mark, you are exactly right and thank you for being civil in your discussion. As I said before, I’ve never said there’s no one that does good on TRT because thats simply false, but for us as adults to sit here and say a large number of patients on TRT don’t have success is a blatant lie. I am happy for you and I hope you continue to have success with TRT but just know there are lots of guys like myself that have not did well. Man I’ve tried it all other than pellets and I’ve had some damn good Physicians over the years including ones on this site and I wouldn’t consider nearly 9 years as just giving up on something. I try to keep a positive outlook about most things in life and I’ve tried for nearly a decade to do so with this but I have circum to the realization that it’s not for me. Regarding what S1W said I did have a brief moment of some success dropping my dose drastically but then again right back to the same old crap. I’ve not had a single androgen in my body in five weeks now and honestly I’m starting to feel more like myself then I have an eight or nine years and every aspect. I don’t know if things will progressively get better I don’t know what my lab Values are and honestly at this point don’t care. I just want to be free from the constraints of TRT. Some things I’ve noticed right now not taking anything is: I am sleeping better, clearer thoughts, don’t feel emotionally blunted, I’m having morning erections again, don’t feel angry all the time, don’t have acne, blood pressure has dropped, HDL is up 9 points and ldl down 11 points. I hope things continue to progress but I’ll except what I have for now and be extremely thankful that there might be light at the end of the tunnel for me at this point.

 

[MarkM]

TRT has been good for me and it seems that you are doing much better off of it. Good for you!

I never meant to insinuate that you gave up. I’m sorry if it came across that way. Sounds like you gave it the better part of 10 years. I hope you continue to feel better.

 

[sh1973]

Thank you, I appreciate that.

 

[sh1973]

You’re right it’s fine to disagree but I challenge you to show me any long-term study of the hypothalamus region of the brain being shut down long term due to TRT.

 

[lowe2sucks]

I think everybody has different response to exogenous hormones and being shutdown affects everybody different as well.. I had my fair share of experience with trt... I was happy in some aspects (muscle, lean body) but there were some sexual issues going on maybe because I did large part of my trt without hcg, dhea and preg backfilling.. I don't know.. But I would never know how I am really suppose to function if I wouldn't try to come off for at least few years and see for myself.. If it would be unbereable I would probably jump back on but I always remind myself there was a reason why I came off
all I can say my first 3 years of trt were probably best in my life but it went south after that...I think that's when being totally shutdown got to me finally