6 months on TRT - No improvement??

[workoutguy123]

Labs from 11/12/19 ***Labs from LABCORP***
Total Test - 623.6 (264-916 ng/dL)
Free Test - 7.5 (8.7-25.1pg/mL)
Estadiol sensitive 7.9(8.0 - 35.0)
SHBG 91.1 (16.5 - 55.9)
Free T3 - 2.4 (2.2-4.4)

Labs from 3/24/20 ***Labs from Quest Labs***
Total Test - 1322 (264-916 ng/dL)
Free Test - 101.7 (110-224 pg/mL)
Bioavailable test - 209.2 (110-575 ng/dl)
Estadiol sensitive 36 (8.0 - 35.0)
SHBG - 74
T4 free - 0.8 (0.8-1.8)
T3 free 0 3.0 (2.2-4.4)

So quick things that jump out:

-Testosterone improvement is large
- Estadiol went from too low to bordering too high? Though I've been told it's not a concern considering the test/estrogen ratio.
- SHBG lower, but still quite high.
- Thyroid not quite optimal

Overall, I'd say the labs improved considerably. I've now been on TRT for 6 months. However, I have not felt ANY noticeable improvement. Maybe subtle changes, but I would consider them so small, it's like placebo. Libido still bad, weight still not moving even with training 6x per week and very calculated diet, sleep is bad without supplementation. Maybe a slight increase in energy, but that was more induced by an increase of my thyroid meds, about a month ago.

My protocol has been tweeked in this 6 month period. It began as:

.8 mlTestosterone cyp 2x per WEEKLY - .4ml 2x per week + 400IU HCG 2x per week (800IU total)
2 grains armour + 30mcg cytomel daily.
(this was my protocol was about 4-5 months)

My protocol the last month or two:
1ml Testosterone cyp WEEKLY- Daily injections .15ml 6x per week, .10ml 1x per week + HCG stopped
2.5 grains armour + 50mcg cytomel daily

With both protocols I take a handful of other things likeVitamin D, K, Selenium, Boron, Fish oil,DHEA, and ZMA (seriously, a handful)

My questions are why am I not seeing dramatic improvement? All the timelines suggest that 6 months in I should be seeing a ton of noticeable benefits. I train 6x per week, my diet is very calculated. While I'm not overweight (~13% BF), I seem unable to get my weight lower (I used to always remain 10% or slightly lower) with dialed in diet/training. It seems like my doctors don't have much to suggest to me, so I'm looking for more insight and advice. All help is appreciated.

 

[swoops36]

Using a calculator, theres no way your FT is that high. It’s closer to 19ng, which isnot bad but not awesome. Have you looked into why your SHBG is still so high?

 

[workoutguy123]

I just edited it to make a notation that the first labs are from LabCorp, and the second are from Quest Labs. It appears they present testosterone differently? Not sure why my SHBG is so high. It began at 59 before any type of treatment. It has raised over time, perhaps due to thyroid medication? The Boron, and ZMA is what my doctors are having me take to hopefully lower this some, but it hasn't seemed to help greatly. Some suggest just a really high dose of T is the key with the high SHBG.

 

[TLawyer]

Labs from 11/12/19 ***Labs from LABCORP***
Total Test - 623.6 (264-916 ng/dL)
Free Test - 7.5 (8.7-25.1pg/mL)
Estadiol sensitive 7.9(8.0 - 35.0)
SHBG 91.1 (16.5 - 55.9)
Free T3 - 2.4 (2.2-4.4)

Labs from 3/24/20 ***Labs from Quest Labs***
Total Test - 1322 (264-916 ng/dL)
Free Test - 101.7 (110-224 pg/mL)
Bioavailable test - 209.2 (110-575 ng/dl)
Estadiol sensitive 36 (8.0 - 35.0)
SHBG - 74
T4 free - 0.8 (0.8-1.8)
T3 free 0 3.0 (2.2-4.4)

So quick things that jump out:

-Testosterone improvement is large
- Estadiol went from too low to bordering too high? Though I've been told it's not a concern considering the test/estrogen ratio.
- SHBG lower, but still quite high.
- Thyroid not quite optimal

Overall, I'd say the labs improved considerably. I've now been on TRT for 6 months. However, I have not felt ANY noticeable improvement. Maybe subtle changes, but I would consider them so small, it's like placebo. Libido still bad, weight still not moving even with training 6x per week and very calculated diet, sleep is bad without supplementation. Maybe a slight increase in energy, but that was more induced by an increase of my thyroid meds, about a month ago.

My protocol has been tweeked in this 6 month period. It began as:

.8 mlTestosterone cyp 2x per WEEKLY - .4ml 2x per week + 400IU HCG 2x per week (800IU total)
2 grains armour + 30mcg cytomel daily.
(this was my protocol was about 4-5 months)

My protocol the last month or two:
1ml Testosterone cyp WEEKLY- Daily injections .15ml 6x per week, .10ml 1x per week + HCG stopped
2.5 grains armour + 50mcg cytomel daily

With both protocols I take a handful of other things likeVitamin D, K, Selenium, Boron, Fish oil,DHEA, and ZMA (seriously, a handful)

My questions are why am I not seeing dramatic improvement? All the timelines suggest that 6 months in I should be seeing a ton of noticeable benefits. I train 6x per week, my diet is very calculated. While I'm not overweight (~13% BF), I seem unable to get my weight lower (I used to always remain 10% or slightly lower) with dialed in diet/training. It seems like my doctors don't have much to suggest to me, so I'm looking for more insight and advice. All help is appreciated.

Did you get DHT tested? That level generally has a big impact on libido.

 

[workoutguy123]

DHT was not tested. I can request that be tested the next labs. I'm still curious why my labs have significantly improved, while my symptoms have not?

Also, what is suggested before labs as fara s holding off on daily injections? I should mention that the labs above from November, I was doing 2x week injections, and my last injection was 3 days prior. The second set of labs (in March), I held off on injections for 6 days. This was becasue of differing suggestions from different Doctors.

 

[TLawyer]

DHT was not tested. I can request that be tested the next labs. I'm still curious why my labs have significantly improved, while my symptoms have not?

Also, what is suggested before labs as fara s holding off on daily injections? I should mention that the labs above from November, I was doing 2x week injections, and my last injection was 3 days prior. The second set of labs (in March), I held off on injections for 6 days. This was becasue of differing suggestions from different Doctors.

Your numbers may improve before you see any symptomatic improvements. You may have just dialed in on good numbers, now you need to wait and monitor your symptoms. Some symptoms can take up to a year to improve once you have the right protocol.

I take daily injections and have been told by Defy that it doesn't matter what time of day you get your labs. If you were using a cream, it would be a different story.