Is HCG necessary on testosterone replacement ?

[JQ88]

In fact I already feel it.

I was taking 80/80 (2x/wk) but since I'm stopping the AI I will lower my T dose to 50mg (e3d).

So I was wondering if you guys have heard of or experienced "estrogenic rebound" from discontinuing anastrozole?

 

[Speed]

You need to relax and enjoy the process. Do not anticipate anything. Maybe, you will feel much better without AI. You are on low dose of T, probably aromatization is not a problem...

 

[JQ88]

Thanku speed,

I really appreciate the feedback and will keep you updated.

Unless it is absolutely unbearable, I will stick with the protocol for six weeks and get labs.

 

[Ardoc]

Thanku speed,

I really appreciate the feedback and will keep you updated.

Unless it is absolutely unbearable, I will stick with the protocol for six weeks and get labs.

JQ88,
As someone who felt some anxiety about starting/tweaking my TRT (although not to the same degree that you seem to), bear in mind that you are assuming your "feeling" of High E2 means that it IS high and that may not be the case. The only way to know is through bloodwork! The symptoms of High E2 and Low E2 are very similar and the effects of anxiety may be equally misleading to how you are "feeling".
By using a lower dose of T, as you are doing, you will aromatize less to E2 as well.
After a long trial and error period I settled on 90mg Test Cyp x 2/wk (which I realize is on the high side) and 350 IU of hcg x 2/wk with NO AI. For almost a year now I have used this protocol without ever adding back an AI (but EVERYONE is different!). My point is that I wrestled with Arimidex in varying doses and protocols for almost 2 years and have now come to realize that it was causing issues rather than resolving them for me. You may even find the anxiety is the true cause of "feeling" off.

 

[JQ88]

We shall see man.

Thanks for your response.

Would LOVE to be able to avoid Anasyrozole all together.

Like you said only labs will tell.

50mg (E3D). No AI.

That's my plan.

Unless it becomes unbearable.

 

[JQ88]

Good morning guys,

I am turning to this forum for some support more than anything.

After a year and a half battle with Anastrozole I dropped it cold turkey and lowered my T dose significantly.

I'm taking 30mg (EOD) with an insulin syringe into delt.

I'm feeling bloated, emotional, and losing strength. Tired a lot. Sleeping more.

I've been given this answer but I'm going to ask it again...

Should I ween off the Adex or just tough this out. I feel terrible.

30mg (EoD) will put me probably around 400-500, hopefully!

I'm low shbg.

I'm struggling.

And asking for some guidance.

 

[Vince Carter]

Good morning guys,

I am turning to this forum for some support more than anything.

After a year and a half battle with Anastrozole I dropped it cold turkey and lowered my T dose significantly.

I'm taking 30mg (EOD) with an insulin syringe into delt.

I'm feeling bloated, emotional, and losing strength. Tired a lot. Sleeping more.

I've been given this answer but I'm going to ask it again...

Should I ween off the Adex or just tough this out. I feel terrible.

30mg (EoD) will put me probably around 400-500, hopefully!

I'm low shbg.

I'm struggling.

And asking for some guidance.

Shoulda just weaned off a little bit at a time, seems like you made two major changes and thus you feel less than ideal. so how long are you on the 30mg EOD and no anastrozole? A week? two? three? Remember that everytime you change something it takes time to balance out again, 4-6 weeks there about.

 

[JQ88]

Vince,

Since last Thursday.

I realize it takes some time.

You recommended "weaning off."

So, just take it as needed?

That's created confusion for me in the past.

Maybe should have went 40mg (eod).

 

[CoastWatcher]

Vince,

Since last Thursday.

I realize it takes some time.

You recommended "weaning off."

So, just take it as needed?

That's created confusion for me in the past.

Maybe should have went 40mg (eod).

How would you take it on an "as needed" basis? Your attempt to dose Anastrozole based solely on your subjective feelings has caused you problems in the past. Your anxiety drives you to constantly adjust aspects of your protocol leading to confusion, more anxiety, and frustration. Having gone to a 30mg dose of testosterone every other day, with no estradiol, you should just live with it until late December/early January. At that point you can draw blood and correlate the lab results with your body's symptoms. Every time you change any aspect of your protocol you restart the clock. Wait it out.

 

[JQ88]

I should just "live with it."

Acceptance is probably my answer right now.

Anyway, Im hoping that every other day injections will balance things out.

I've dropped down from 160mg/wk to 105mg/wk (30mg eod) and have stopped Adex cold turkey.

This won't even take my TT that high... But free T is what I'm concerned about.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I just posted a new interesting piece of the puzzle that may explain why HCG may be a good idea to combine with testosterone replacement therapy.

Anabolic steroids and TRT decrease SHBG, DHEA, pregnenolone and progesterone in men.

 

[JQ88]

I love HCG nelson.

But I HATE Anastrozole.

There is no way I can include hcG while trying to stop AI cold turkey.

It's already bad enough I have lowered my T significantly.

Some of us may need Anastrozole in appropriate doses.

30mg (eod) will probably put my T at low 400's (max) and e2 mid 30's.

Will be curious to hear suggestions at that point.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

JQ88

How high does your TT and E2 go to on your current protocol without anastrozole?

 

[JQ88]

Nelson,

I won't know until I get labs.

But based on past labs probably TT 350-450 and E2 25-35.

I'm taking the advice of this forum, which has overwhelmingly been between 100-120mg/wk 2 or more injections no AI and get labs to adjust.

I settled on 30mg (eod) No AI

I have serious brain fog right now. Sluggish. Tired.

I will fight through but I'm in pain man.

 

[Vince Carter]

You can make custom doses of Anastrozole, it you have tablets or capsules, by emptyng the powder or crushing the tablet, dissolving it in 1 or 2mL of Vodka. This way you can dose as little as .05 or .10mg, or .15mg, if you want to. There's no need to get trapped in to .25mg, or more. You have to do some math to dilute and measure out the dose you want. For instance a 1mg tablet, dissolved in 1mL of Vodka, the 10ths marked on the barrel of a 1mL syringe would be tenths of a milligram. For instance.

 

[JQ88]

Thx Vince.

Yeah I also have liquidex.

I may just need a touch right now.

 

[JQ88]

I took .125 Adex yesterday and it absolutely took me too low.

Joint pain. No morning wood. Yellow teeth Bhanot shedding. Just the weird low e2 feeling overall.

Had to take more T this morning to raise e2.

 

[Speed]

Sweet Jesus. Hahha jq88, this thread is really funny. What the the hell are you doing? Stick to ONE protocol without adex and do the labs after 4 weeks and get done with it already.

 

[JQ88]

I'm helpless guys.

I'm sorry you wasted your time reading and responding to this thread.

I try to get off the Adex... But after three days like clockwork I get extremely puffy and bloated and lose morning wood.

So I take a .25mg of anastrozole.

Within an hour I start feeling like crap.

You know what's strange though: when my e2 is rising I feel better but look bloated and no morning wood.

Post Adex I feel like crap but get my best morning wood.

So I'm sure you can understand my frustration.

I've heard e2 should match shbg to have optimal erectile function.

That seems to be the case with me.

My shbg sits around 16-17.

So when my e2 is 16-17 my morning wood is strong but I FEEL LIKE CRAP.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Are you keeping a journal? Are you sure you have cause-and-effect really explained? Erectile function has over 8 variables and taking an AI is not even in the top list of interventions.

Also, please start another thread since this one is about HCG and TRT. Thanks